Don't Expect a Political Realignment

[LCMS_No_More]

No matter how many children have to be killed to accomplish accomodating your paranoid delusions, correct?

As long as Republicans win, is that it? You shroud your blatant and obvious partisanship in Church teachings and “pro-life.” Aside from sitting here on CAF all the time telling people who disagree with Bush that they’re going straight to hell because they don’t like His Supreme Holiness and our Beloved and Imperious Leader and god, George W. Bush (you shroud it in “pro-life” talk), what do you have TIME for?

By the way, no, that wasn’t very nice, but partisanship is partianship. I cannot stand people who shroud their adoration and near worship of a political party behind Christian doctrine. It’s hypocritical and sick. We are being USED by the Republican party to gain votes while little to nothing is really done to eliminate abortions. Have the little nibbles at the edge of the issue over the past few years done ANYTHING to reduce the number of the abortions at all? Nope. It’s all symbolism and no substance.

 

[cheese_sdc]

He was given intelligence that was accpted by the Clinton admin and both houses of congress, he had no way of knowing it was bad.

It is a undisputed fact that Dick Cheney made more visits to the CIA than all the other VP combined. The CIA workers have made statements that they were pressured into giving information that was favorable the administration’s desires.

He believes that our enemies are willing to kill us with any means and that we must take measures to stop that by gaining information…he is not an advocate of torture, he is an advocate of protecting the United States.

Interesting assertion. I’m sure you’re familiar with the statement “The end doesn’t justify the means”.

Bush was given false intelligence that even the Clinton admin agreed with and most of congress at the time…not false pretense.

Ah, no. The Bush administration ignored any intelligence that didn’t fit his desires to invade Iraq and pressured the CIA into giving information that supported his claims.

What can you not do today, that you could do on 09/10/2001?

Now I have to worry about wiretaps (without judicial oversight) and restrictions to my travel.

Bush’s morality is founded in his faith, is that a problem?

The same morality that can torture another human being? The same morality that can ignore dissenting information and invade another country?

 

[estesbob]

As long as Republicans win, is that it? You shroud your blatant and obvious partisanship in Church teachings and “pro-life.” Aside from sitting here on CAF all the time telling people who disagree with Bush that they’re going straight to hell because they don’t like His Supreme Holiness and our Beloved and Imperious Leader and god, George W. Bush (you shroud it in “pro-life” talk), what do you have TIME for?

By the way, no, that wasn’t very nice, but partisanship is partianship. I cannot stand people who shroud their adoration and near worship of a political party behind Christian doctrine. It’s hypocritical and sick. We are being USED by the Republican party to gain votes while little to nothing is really done to eliminate abortions. Have the little nibbles at the edge of the issue over the past few years done ANYTHING to reduce the number of the abortions at all? Nope. It’s all symbolism and no substance.

How is opossing the Killing of our children partisanship?

The truth is what you cant stand is someone who puts their Faith ahead of their politics. You ought to try it sometime-its a lot easier to sleep at night when one is not drenched in the blood of the innocnets.

 

[estesbob]

It is a undisputed fact that Dick Cheney made more visits to the CIA than all the other VP combined. The CIA workers have made statements that they were pressured into giving information that was favorable the administration’s desires.

Interesting assertion. I’m sure you’re familiar with the statement “The end doesn’t justify the means”.

Ah, no. The Bush administration ignored any intelligence that didn’t fit his desires to invade Iraq and pressured the CIA into giving information that supported his claims.

Now I have to worry about wiretaps (without judicial oversight) and restrictions to my travel.

The same morality that can torture another human being? The same morality that can ignore dissenting information and invade another country?

Neither Bush or Chaney is on the ballot. The choice this Novemeber is between those who support killing our chidlren and those who do not.

 

[Beaver]

As long as Republicans win, is that it? You shroud your blatant and obvious partisanship in Church teachings and “pro-life.” Aside from sitting here on CAF all the time telling people who disagree with Bush that they’re going straight to hell because they don’t like His Supreme Holiness and our Beloved and Imperious Leader and god, George W. Bush (you shroud it in “pro-life” talk), what do you have TIME for?

By the way, no, that wasn’t very nice, but partisanship is partianship. I cannot stand people who shroud their adoration and near worship of a political party behind Christian doctrine. It’s hypocritical and sick. We are being USED by the Republican party to gain votes while little to nothing is really done to eliminate abortions. Have the little nibbles at the edge of the issue over the past few years done ANYTHING to reduce the number of the abortions at all? Nope. It’s all symbolism and no substance.

Symbols do lead into reality. Small steps do lead to larger ones. Used or not, it has sent a message and that message has been acted upon. We have a new Supreme Court and it could get even better.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Symbols do lead into reality. Small steps to lead to larger ones. Used or not, it has sent a message and that message has been acted upon. We have a new Supreme Court and it could get even better.

That’s assuming that the Republicans actually cared about solving the problem. With some exceptions, the party does not. They just want our votes. They are using us and will continue to do so for as long as possible. Those small, meaningless steps are nothing but bait to keep us voting for them. They will never take any real substantive steps to reduce abortions because abortion is a tool for them to keep us voting for them.

Answer this honestly: if abortion were banned tomorrow, for what reason would anyone who works for a living vote Republican?

And I would ask for real reasons, not Republican taking points that are all strawmen and have no basis in reality.

 

[rlg94086]

Lower taxes, less government intervention, etc.

Your cynicism won’t change my vote. The same cynical arguments could and have been made about the Democrats and the poor. By Rush Limbaugh, I believe. So, you are just like Rush…only on the Left…and without a successful radio show.

We have different philosophies on the role of government. That is all. Such talk just causes more and more partisan hatred and is unnecessary.

That’s assuming that the Republicans actually cared about solving the problem. With some exceptions, the party does not. They just want our votes. They are using us and will continue to do so for as long as possible. Those small, meaningless steps are nothing but bait to keep us voting for them. They will never take any real substantive steps to reduce abortions because abortion is a tool for them to keep us voting for them.

Answer this honestly: if abortion were banned tomorrow, for what reason would anyone who works for a living vote Republican?

And I would ask for real reasons, not Republican taking points that are all strawmen and have no basis in reality.

 

[estesbob]

That’s assuming that the Republicans actually cared about solving the problem. With some exceptions, the party does not. They just want our votes. They are using us and will continue to do so for as long as possible. Those small, meaningless steps are nothing but bait to keep us voting for them. They will never take any real substantive steps to reduce abortions because abortion is a tool for them to keep us voting for them.

Answer this honestly: if abortion were banned tomorrow, for what reason would anyone who works for a living vote Republican?

And I would ask for real reasons, not Republican taking points that are all strawmen and have no basis in reality.

Why dont we end abortion and find out?

 

[estesbob]

Lower taxes, less government intervention, etc.

Your cynicism won’t change my vote. The same cynical arguments could and have been made about the Democrats and the poor. By Rush Limbaugh, I believe. So, you are just like Rush…only on the Left…and without a successful radio show.

We have different philosophies on the role of government. That is all. Such talk just causes more and more partisan hatred and is unnecessary.

The big difference being that one philosophy believes killing our children is acceptable-the other does not.

 

[rlg94086]

I agree Bob. I was just answering LCMSNM’s challenge.

The big difference being that one philosophy believes killing our children is acceptable-the other does not.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Lower taxes, less government intervention, etc.

I remember arguing those. How much “lower taxes” is enough? How much “less government” is enough? It’s NEVER enough…until there’s no more taxes and no more services. So, let’s be honest. Republicanism is about eliminating all taxes and government services, period. It’s also about creating a police state where everyone is controlled and where corporations are in charge. This is not a good thing. There was a man in the 1930’s and 1940’s who ran a country on that model. The country is Italy and the man’s name was Benito.

Your cynicism won’t change my vote. The same cynical arguments could and have been made about the Democrats and the poor. By Rush Limbaugh, I believe. So, you are just like Rush…only on the Left…and without a successful radio show.

I don’t expect to change your vote. I only ask you to think about these things differently. Yes, Limbaugh actually got one right. Even a broken watch tells the time twice a day.

We have different philosophies on the role of government. That is all.

Which is something I don’t have a problem with. We can disagree and move toward something we CAN agree on when it comes to what government should do (I say serve the people).

Such talk just causes more and more partisan hatred and is unnecessary.

Well, I hate to say it, but that’s the bailywick of the Republicans. They started this internecine warfare back in the 1990’s with their incessant personal attacks on Bill and Hillary Clinton. When you create a toxic atmosphere, don’t expect things to be pretty when your guy is in power.

This election is about placing checks on an Executive Branch that is out of control and lusting for power. That’s the big issue in this one. If Bush had colored within the lines, then we wouldn’t have this as a problem. Unfortunately, he messed this country up BADLY and it needs to be fixed.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Why dont we end abortion and find out?

It won’t happen because Republicans KNOW that it’s their one and only hold to the Christian vote. Eliminate abortion and Republicans lose power, period. That’s why Reagan took up the issue in the 1980 race. It was the hook they needed to get the Christian vote.

 

[rlg94086]

I remember arguing those. How much “lower taxes” is enough? How much “less government” is enough? It’s NEVER enough…until there’s no more taxes and no more services. So, let’s be honest. Republicanism is about eliminating all taxes and government services, period. It’s also about creating a police state where everyone is controlled and where corporations are in charge. This is not a good thing. There was a man in the 1930’s and 1940’s who ran a country on that model. The country is Italy and the man’s name was Benito.

None of the above is true. Republicans want the federal government to be more like the Constitution laid out. We aren’t even close to that. So, no more social services. Yes. But, there will still be taxes to support legitimate federal concerns.
LCMSNM:

I don’t expect to change your vote. I only ask you to think about these things differently. Yes, Limbaugh actually got one right. Even a broken watch tells the time twice a day.

He did? So, you agree that the Democrats really want to perpetuate poverty, so they can keep their voting base? Okay.
LCMSNM:

Well, I hate to say it, but that’s the bailywick of the Republicans. They started this internecine warfare back in the 1990’s with their incessant personal attacks on Bill and Hillary Clinton. When you create a toxic atmosphere, don’t expect things to be pretty when your guy is in power.

Vengence isn’t a value I favor, but thanks for being honest.
LCMSNM:

This election is about placing checks on an Executive Branch that is out of control and lusting for power. That’s the big issue in this one. If Bush had colored within the lines, then we wouldn’t have this as a problem. Unfortunately, he messed this country up BADLY and it needs to be fixed.

You are entitled to your flawed opinion.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

The big difference being that one philosophy believes killing our children is acceptable-the other does not.

If abortion is banned, then the question is moot, isn’t it?

Let’s assume for a moment that abortion is banned and gay "marriage is a non-issue… Why would any working person ever vote Republican?

 

[estesbob]

If abortion is banned, then the question is moot, isn’t it?

Let’s assume for a moment that abortion is banned and gay "marriage is a non-issue… Why would any working person ever vote Republican?

Twer ifs and buts candy and nuts we’d all have a Merry christmas.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

None of the above is true. Republicans want the federal government to be more like the Constitution laid out. We aren’t even close to that. So, no more social services. Yes. But, there will still be taxes to support legitimate federal concerns.

He did? So, you agree that the Democrats really want to perpetuate poverty, so they can keep their voting base? Okay.

Vengence isn’t a value I favor, but thanks for being honest.

You are entitled to your flawed opinion.

Actually, I was a Clinton-hater in the 1990’s along with all the other right-wing Republicans, and most people here on this board are now. I realized that I was wrong on a lot of things. As a working person, I saw that Bush is not my friend and I also saw that his unprecedented arrogations of power unto himself are dangerous to the liberties we hold so dear.

I am not pro-Democrat as much as I am anti-Republican right now because of the direction toward dictatorship that they have placed this country. That I despise what Republicanism has become does not automatically place me in the Democratic camp. The world isn’t quite that black and white, regardless of what you hear on Savage or Hannity or Limbaugh.

 

[estesbob]

None of the above is true. Republicans want the federal government to be more like the Constitution laid out. We aren’t even close to that. So, no more social services. Yes. But, there will still be taxes to support legitimate federal concerns.

You are entitled to your flawed opinion.

As always one should look to the guidance of our Church. The Church explicity states that Catholics of good conscience are free to disagree on politlcal of social issues, war and the death penalty. They can not, however, EVER put any of these issues or combination of issues ahead of abortion. We must first look at a canidates stand on abortion before we even begin to consider voting for them.

 

[rlg94086]

The world isn’t quite that black and white, regardless of what you hear on Savage or Hannity or Limbaugh.

 

[cheese_sdc]

Neither Bush or Chaney is on the ballot. The choice this Novemeber is between those who support killing our chidlren and those who do not.

Can we count Iraqi children, or do they not count? How about Iraq citizens, or do they not count either? These people have died because of the actions of a president and political party drunken on power.

 

[estesbob]

Can we count Iraqi children, or do they not count? How about Iraq citizens, or do they not count either? These people have died because of the actions of a president and political party drunken on power.

All I can go by is what the Church teaches. Benedict himself said it is perfectly acceptable for Catholics to differ on the war-BUT they can not differ on Abortion. We can NOT support a canodate who supports abortion.