Don't Expect a Political Realignment

[LCMS_No_More]

Can we count Iraqi children, or do they not count? How about Iraq citizens, or do they not count either? These people have died because of the actions of a president and political party drunken on power.

They’re not human “enough” to count. Republicans say that their death is “acceptable losses,” and so it must be.

 

[mary_bobo]

Actually, I was a Clinton-hater in the 1990’s along with all the other right-wing Republicans, and most people here on this board are now. I realized that I was wrong on a lot of things. As a working person, I saw that Bush is not my friend and I also saw that his unprecedented arrogations of power unto himself are dangerous to the liberties we hold so dear.

How did you arrive at the conclusion that a friend of the working person? The unemployment rate is lower than it has been for years and because of the tax cuts, tax payers get to keep more of their money rather than lending it to the government. And for the record, I was not a Clinton hater, I just profoundly disagreed on most of his policies.
I am not pro-Democrat as much as I am anti-Republican right now because of the direction toward dictatorship that they have placed this country. That I despise what Republicanism has become does not automatically place me in the Democratic camp. The world isn’t quite that black and white, regardless of what you hear on Savage or Hannity or Limbaugh.

Hannity has a tendency to paint things black and white, Savage is brutal in his picking apart of both parties (the few times I have heard him while driving around) and Rush is not really black and white. If you listen, he gives you his opinion and tells you why he holds that opinion. You are not required to believe it.COLOR=“red”]

 

[mary_bobo]

If abortion is banned, then the question is moot, isn’t it?

Let’s assume for a moment that abortion is banned and gay "marriage is a non-issue… Why would any working person ever vote Republican?

Okey, I’ll take the bait. How about lower taxes, highest unemployment rate in years, Dow reaching new heights. That’s for starters. President’s through the years have shown that lower taxes brings more money into government cofers (Kennedy, Reagan, Bush 43). Because of these lower tax rates, more business has been generated, more jobs have been created and the deficit has dropped almost half, far faster than earlier predicted. If by working person you mean a union member, there are reasons for that as well. Just my opinion.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

marybobo:

LCMS_No_More:

Actually, I was a Clinton-hater in the 1990’s along with all the other right-wing Republicans, and most people here on this board are now. I realized that I was wrong on a lot of things. As a working person, I saw that Bush is not my friend and I also saw that his unprecedented arrogations of power unto himself are dangerous to the liberties we hold so dear.

How did you arrive at the conclusion that a friend of the working person? The unemployment rate is lower than it has been for years and because of the tax cuts,

And the jobs that people are getting pay less than the ones they lost during the last recession. Real income has gone down under Bush.

tax payers get to keep more of their money rather than lending it to the government.

Resulting in a ballooning deficit and debt. You can’t pin this on Clinton. The Republicans are in complete control of this government and spending is out of control.

And for the record, I was not a Clinton hater, I just profoundly disagreed on most of his policies.

I used to say the same thing, but it didn’t deter from that fact that I really hated Clinton. Most Republicans do.

I am not pro-Democrat as much as I am anti-Republican right now because of the direction toward dictatorship that they have placed this country. That I despise what Republicanism has become does not automatically place me in the Democratic camp. The world isn’t quite that black and white, regardless of what you hear on Savage or Hannity or Limbaugh.

Hannity has a tendency to paint things black and white, Savage is brutal in his picking apart of both parties (the few times I have heard him while driving around) and Rush is not really black and white. If you listen, he gives you his opinion and tells you why he holds that opinion. You are not required to believe it.

Oh, trust me, I don’t even bother listening to any of these three fools. I don’t have enough room in my mind or heart to listen to so much hate and lies. But the little snippets I do get of them makes me wonder what their fans are really thinking. If some of the anger and vitriol I read here about non-Republicans is the result then our country is in for some major problems in the very near future.

Can you say “buh-bye Constitutional Republic? Hello dictatorship” I knew you could.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Okey, I’ll take the bait. How about lower taxes, highest unemployment rate in years, Dow reaching new heights. That’s for starters. President’s through the years have shown that lower taxes brings more money into government cofers (Kennedy, Reagan, Bush 43). Because of these lower tax rates, more business has been generated, more jobs have been created and the deficit has dropped almost half, far faster than earlier predicted. If by working person you mean a union member, there are reasons for that as well. Just my opinion.

Highest unemployment rate in years? LOL Well, if you take into account that the jobs people are getting now…well, they stink, perhaps that’s about the same effect.

Are those jobs of the same quality (wages, benefits, security) as the jobs the were lost beforehand? No. They’re most low-paying service-sector jobs.

Are the Republicans for doing anything about economic traitors (companies that outsource American jobs)? No, they’re about giving them incentives to keep betraying the United States economically.

Oh, and as a union member, I have experience with Republicans trying to screw with my job personally, so I’m not at all endeared to them.

 

[cheese_sdc]

All I can go by is what the Church teaches. Benedict himself said it is perfectly acceptable for Catholics to differ on the war-BUT they can not differ on Abortion. We can NOT support a canodate who supports abortion.

So I can start invade a country unjustly, which directly causes a civil war, which directly causes massive civilian casualities and that’s okay.

I don’t see how waiting to kill an innocent person until they’re out of the womb is okay.

And I’m not saying the democrats are better than republicans. I’m sayting that republicans don’t hold the moral high ground anymore.

 

[mary_bobo]

And the jobs that people are getting pay less than the ones they lost during the last recession. Real income has gone down under Bush.

Resulting in a ballooning deficit and debt. You can’t pin this on Clinton.

I did not say anything about Clinton here. Please don’t put words in my mouth.

The Republicans are in complete control of this government and spending is out of control.

I used to say the same thing, but it didn’t deter from that fact that I really hated Clinton. Most Republicans do.

Oh, trust me, I don’t even bother listening to any of these three fools.

Surely you can be more creative and charitable than that. You don’t have to agree with them, we get that, but I hardly call them fools.
I don’t have enough room in my mind or heart to listen to so much hate and lies.

If you don’t listen, how do you know these are lies, huh?

But the little snippets I do get of them makes me wonder what their fans are really thinking. If some of the anger and vitriol I read here about non-Republicans is the result then our country is in for some major problems in the very near future.

Can you say “buh-bye Constitutional Republic? Hello dictatorship” I knew you could.

Talk about vitriolic. I don’t hate Dems, but they are the ones stepping on the Constitution.

 

[estesbob]

So I can start invade a country unjustly, which directly causes a civil war, which directly causes massive civilian casualities and that’s okay.

I don’t see how waiting to kill an innocent person until they’re out of the womb is okay.

And I’m not saying the democrats are better than republicans. I’m sayting that republicans don’t hold the moral high ground anymore.

I am not making any comments on political party’s. Just stateing Catholic Teachings. It is quite telling that so many think that that constitues an attack on the Democrat party

 

[Tom317]

cheese_sdc;1594439]It is a undisputed fact that Dick Cheney made more visits to the CIA than all the other VP combined. The CIA workers have made statements that they were pressured into giving information that was favorable the administration’s desires.

==> So what?

Interesting assertion. I’m sure you’re familiar with the statement “The end doesn’t justify the means”.

==> Never saidit did, nor has Bush. Answer this: If you knew that a mild form of torture would prevent thousands from dying, would you approve the torture or let the people die? Don’t evade the question, answer it directly, what would you do in that scenario?

Ah, no. The Bush administration ignored any intelligence that didn’t fit his desires to invade Iraq and pressured the CIA into giving information that supported his claims.

==> Not true, and you are just showing hate now.

Now I have to worry about wiretaps (without judicial oversight) and restrictions to my travel.

==> Again, not true.

The same morality that can torture another human being? The same morality that can ignore dissenting information and invade another country?

==> Answer my challenge above. He listened to the dissenters and found them wanting.

 

[Tom317]

So I can start invade a country unjustly, which directly causes a civil war, which directly causes massive civilian casualities and that’s okay.

I don’t see how waiting to kill an innocent person until they’re out of the womb is okay.

And I’m not saying the democrats are better than republicans. I’m sayting that republicans don’t hold the moral high ground anymore.

The repubs NEVER held a moral high ground, we are all sinners. The repubs just have better ideas then the dems in many ways, and in other ways they are worse.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

So I can start invade a country unjustly, which directly causes a civil war, which directly causes massive civilian casualities and that’s okay.

I don’t see how waiting to kill an innocent person until they’re out of the womb is okay.

And I’m not saying the democrats are better than republicans. I’m sayting that republicans don’t hold the moral high ground anymore.

As long as you merely say that you are against abortion, it’s all good.

 

[cheese_sdc]

So what?

You’re kidding right? You think that political leadership forcing a professional intelligence agency into giving the “right” information is a good thing? shakes head

Never saidit did, nor has Bush. Answer this: If you knew that a mild form of torture would prevent thousands from dying, would you approve the torture or let the people die? Don’t evade the question, answer it directly, what would you do in that scenario?

You know, that’s a tough question. Define “mild torture”. And how do you know that the information you receive is good? From everything I hear, you do get information from torture, the problem involves separating the good info from the bad info. People will say all kinds of things to stop pain. So there is not only a moral reason to not torture, but a practical one.

Ah, no. The Bush administration ignored any intelligence that didn’t fit his desires to invade Iraq and pressured the CIA into giving information that supported his claims.

==>Not true, and you are just showing hate now.

Hahahaha! That’s great. It’s the famed “You don’t agree with me so you hate me!” retorical device. Sorry dude. The balls in your court. What you have said is not a rebuttal.

==> Again, not true.

Please read your current events. jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2006/09/lawmakers-put-domestic-surveillance.php

cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/19/bush/index.html

Answer my challenge above. He listened to the dissenters and found them wanting.

When? It is a known fact that whenever there is a rally that the president appears at, the crowd is hand picked. No liberals or independants are allowed to penetrate his “bubble”.

 

[mary_bobo]

You’re kidding right? You think that political leadership forcing a professional intelligence agency into giving the “right” information is a good thing? shakes head

You know, that’s a tough question. Define “mild torture”. And how do you know that the information you receive is good? From everything I hear, you do get information from torture, the problem involves separating the good info from the bad info. People will say all kinds of things to stop pain. So there is not only a moral reason to not torture, but a practical one.

Hahahaha! That’s great. It’s the famed “You don’t agree with me so you hate me!” retorical device. Sorry dude. The balls in your court. What you have said is not a rebuttal.

Please read your current events. jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2006/09/lawmakers-put-domestic-surveillance.php

cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/19/bush/index.html

When? It is a known fact that whenever there is a rally that the president appears at, the crowd is hand picked. No liberals or independants are allowed to penetrate his “bubble”.

As the wife of a former political operative, I can tell you that every political “event” is the same regardless of party. Please don’t make this a party thing.

 

[estesbob]

As long as you merely say that you are against abortion, it’s all good.

The record is clear in the last 6 years both Bush and the Republican party have dekivered on their promises concerning abortion and values:

1. Banned Partial Birth Abortion - by far the most significant roll-back of abortion on demand since Roe v. Wade.
2. Reversed Clinton’s move to strike Reagan’s anti-abortion Mexico Policy.
3. By Executive Order (EO), reversed Clinton’s policy of not requiring parental consent for abortions under the Medical Privacy Act.
4. By EO, prohibited federal funds for international family planning groups that provide abortions and related services.
5. Upheld the ban on abortions at military hospitals.
6. Made $33 million available for abstinence education programs in 2004.
7. Supports the Defense of Marriage Act - and a Constitutional amendment saying marriage is between one man and one woman.
8. Requires states to conduct criminal background checks on prospective foster and adoptive parents.
9. Requires districts to let students transfer out of dangerous schools.
10. Requires schools to have a zero-tolerance policy for classroom disruption (reintroducing discipline into classrooms).
11. Signed the Teacher Protection Act, which protects teachers from lawsuits related to student discipline.
12. Expanded the role of faith-based and community organizations in after-school programs.
13. Passed the parental consent law-currently being blocked by DEMOCRATS
14. Pro-life Judge Alito placed on the Suprem Court
15. Made pro-life roberts Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.
16. Have placed over 2 dozen pro-life judges on Federal District courts. 6 Pro-life judges were blocked by the Democrats solely becuase of their support for Life.
17. Passed the Born alive Act
18. Passed the violence against the unborn act

Can you tell us which of the above would have been implemented if democrats had been in contol?

 

[rlg94086]

As long as you merely say that you are against abortion, it’s all good.

Are you referring to John Kerry and other pro-choice Catholic politicians and the pro-choice Catholics who vote for them?

 

[LCMS_No_More]

The record is clear in the last 6 years both Bush and the Republican party have dekivered on their promises concerning abortion and values:

1. Banned Partial Birth Abortion - by far the most significant roll-back of abortion on demand since Roe v. Wade.
2. Reversed Clinton’s move to strike Reagan’s anti-abortion Mexico Policy.
3. By Executive Order (EO), reversed Clinton’s policy of not requiring parental consent for abortions under the Medical Privacy Act.
4. By EO, prohibited federal funds for international family planning groups that provide abortions and related services.
5. Upheld the ban on abortions at military hospitals.
6. Made $33 million available for abstinence education programs in 2004.
7. Supports the Defense of Marriage Act - and a Constitutional amendment saying marriage is between one man and one woman.
8. Requires states to conduct criminal background checks on prospective foster and adoptive parents.
9. Requires districts to let students transfer out of dangerous schools.
10. Requires schools to have a zero-tolerance policy for classroom disruption (reintroducing discipline into classrooms).
11. Signed the Teacher Protection Act, which protects teachers from lawsuits related to student discipline.
12. Expanded the role of faith-based and community organizations in after-school programs.
13. Passed the parental consent law-currently being blocked by DEMOCRATS
14. Pro-life Judge Alito placed on the Suprem Court
15. Made pro-life roberts Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.
16. Have placed over 2 dozen pro-life judges on Federal District courts. 6 Pro-life judges were blocked by the Democrats solely becuase of their support for Life.
17. Passed the Born alive Act
18. Passed the violence against the unborn act

Can you tell us which of the above would have been implemented if democrats had been in contol?

Has this actually resulted in a reduction in the number of abortions or are these merely symbolic so you can make an 18 item list, a good portion of which has nothing to do with abortion?

For example, the partial birth abortion ban, which I support, would prevent, maybe less than 1% of all abortions. While it’s a good thing for those babies, it’s little consoloation to the other 99% plus other unborn children that are continuing to die every day. While a good bill, it only nibbles at the edge of the issue.

Six of the items have absolutely NOTHING to do with the issue of pro-life, yet you post them as though they do. What do items 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, or 12 have to do with abortion or life issues?

Item six, while good in theory, is not so good in practice. Has it been successful in dissuading kids from having sex before marriage? Is the information accurate or is it more akin to those cute propaganda films from the 50’s about going blind? I look at results and some studies I’ve read (Salon has an article about this - it’s free if you watch a 15-20 second car ad) say that pregnancy rates increased in places where abstinence only is used. Hmm…unexpected pregnancies result in…more abortions, not less.

Once again, I agree with the goals of abstinence until marriage, but in our sex crazed culture, without the graces of the Sacraments, do you expect people who are not Christian or Catholic to adhere to remaining chaste until they get married? It’s tough living in the reality-based community, I know.

Two or three of the items are questionable as there is no real track record on life issues, just claims by a known prevaricator (Bush) that they are pro-life. Alito and Roberts may be pro-life (we don’t know yet), there are other judges who could be better pro-life choices as those who would stand up for the people and not for corporate malfeasance (as Roberts clearly is).

I’m not like Mr. Rumsfeld, “you work with the military you have, not the military you may want to have.” I have higher standards.

 

[StMarkEofE]

Not if they don’t have the votes, it won’t. Studies, and hearings yes. Impeachement proceedings, no.

Nancy P. is now backstepping in her bid to Impeach Bush but she has a long list of Dems who will battle her on this. She may wind up caving in.

 

[Paganus]

Here is what you can take to the BANK if the Democrats win back the Congress:

Dems will raise taxes through the roof, mostly on corporations, the upper middle class, and the rich.
Just remember: When your company starts paying much higher taxes, they also STOP giving YOU good salary increases.

Oh, and yes, the Dems will raise the minimum wage (not a bad thing in itself at all).

And some of the Dems will try to impeach Bush.

So yes, the Democrats do have ideas. Unfortunately for me, 90% of their ideas are contrary to my Catholic Faith and are wicked crimes against God and humanity.

Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)

I have voted Republican for twenty years, but the Democrats are starting to look good to me.

I do not think that, economically speaking, I can continue to support the Republican party.

I only voted for them because of their pro-life stance, but I’m sorry - the abortion mills are going full steam and I watched the President of the United States, the U.S. Congress, the Governor of Florida and the entire citizenry of the United States being told to shut up and watch a sister in Christ starve to death on national tv last year, while some Gestapo-impersonators took children to jail for protesting. And all those Republicans did was mumble that it was a shame and went back to playing golf and yachting.

Meanwhile, our take-home pay and our medical benefits and retirement benefits are being eaten away every year. At this rate, my retirement is going to be spent huddled around a fire under a bridge somewhere after some corporation seizes my land to build a hotel.

I don’t see why I should continue to support some rich windbags just because they pretend to sympathize with me. I’d rather elect someone who honestly doesn’t care, but might get my kids some affordable medical and dental care.

Viva los Estados Unidos.

 

[aimee]

I have voted Republican for twenty years, but the Democrats are starting to look good to me.

I do not think that, economically speaking, I can continue to support the Republican party.

I only voted for them because of their pro-life stance, but I’m sorry - the abortion mills are going full steam and I watched the President of the United States, the U.S. Congress, the Governor of Florida and the entire citizenry of the United States being told to shut up and watch a sister in Christ starve to death on national tv last year, while some Gestapo-impersonators took children to jail for protesting. And all those Republicans did was mumble that it was a shame and went back to playing golf and yachting.

Meanwhile, our take-home pay and our medical benefits and retirement benefits are being eaten away every year. At this rate, my retirement is going to be spent huddled around a fire under a bridge somewhere after some corporation seizes my land to build a hotel.

I don’t see why I should continue to support some rich windbags just because they pretend to sympathize with me. I’d rather elect someone who honestly doesn’t care, but might get my kids some affordable medical and dental care.

Viva los Estados Unidos.

Come on now…you must have voted for former Pres Clinton

 

[Jaypeeto3]

I would like to know where the poster gets the idea that all or even most members of the Republican Party just hang around playing golf or relaxing on yachts ?!?!?!??

Most of us are middle class people, for crying out loud.
I myself am lower-middle class. I make barely $30,000 a year and get paid by the hour. My health insurance at work is quite expensive (my portion of it, that is), I have bills (some of them quite high) to pay, and have to help support my aging parents. Thank God I’m single, because I couldn’t support a wife and kids on what I earn. And I am college-educated, just not in the right Major (I majored in Acting…oops) to make a good 9 to 5 living.
I am certainly very, very far from being rich.
Yet I vote Republican (unless the choice was a pro-abort Republican, I wouldn’t vote for one of them). I watched the political scene very carefully from my college days beginning in the late 70s down to today and, except for Bush’s bad decision to go into Iraq, it has been the Republicans who have best protected our national security interests and whose policies (together with the tremendous help of the influence of Pope John Paul II ) were largely responsible for the utter COLLAPSE of Communist tyranny in Europe. Had the Democrats been running the White House and the Congress in the 1980s, all of Central America and Mexico would be under communist rule by now, we’d have scads of red terrorists from Latin America in our country, the Iron Curtain would still be standing in Europe, as would the Berlin Wall. The Democrats opposed every effort of President Reagan to bring freedom back to Central America and Western Europe.
Jimmy Carter and his wild sky-high taxing policies wrecked our economy. President Reagan helped bring the economy back.

I don’t blame the Republican Party for the fact that I make a relatively low income and have to bite the bullet a lot when it comes to money and my personal and healthcare needs. That would be asinine. It is NOT the government’s responsibility
to pay MY bills. Not mine, nor anybody else’s.

We are not a bunch of rich stuffshirt snobs.
If you’re looking for a real Rich, elitist snob,
look no further than John Kerry.

Jaypeeto3 (aka Jaypeeto4)