Doug Batchelor: His Catholic Church Attacks

[BibleTruth]

We never ever brought in any secular scholars in order to get accredited. We sent grad students to univerisites to get doctorates–they came back to become the profs at out univeristies.

If you wish to change the definition as you go along go right ahead.

In the humantites (my undergrad was in sociology) they teach such things as anthropology, psychology, history, art, philosophy, sociology, music, economics, etc…

That would mean they weren’t grounded before they even went. I went to the University of Minnesota for my undergard in sociology (never finished that one) and my faith was never shaken. Unlike a tree that isn’t exposed to winds becomes weak and snaps during a storm, I was actually strengthened by my experience.

DJ,

Please know that I’m not attacking you, but I think you’re missing the point. Where would our graduate students have gone to get those doctorate degrees in that scenario? Certainly not from other Adventists universities.

The mission of our church underhandedly (subtly) changed which can be seen in our logo having been changed in 1995 to the Catholic church’s suggestion to all churches to use the open Bible, cross & flame. Our banner had previously been, for decades, the symbol of the three angels taking their messages to the world. Check your Sabbath school cover to see what I’m referencing.

Satan will stop at nothing to disrupt God’s plan including infiltrating the leadership of our church, which has happened just as it’s happened to every other church. They’re men, subject to fallibility as all men are, regardless of the church or denomination they belong to. However, just as the disciples had to be the ones to spread God’s truth after Jesus’ death (the Pharisees - i.e. church leaders - certainly wouldn’t be the ones to do it), so is our responsibility as members, department heads & pastors in the local church to do the same and remain in the spirit of truth guided by the Holy Spirit.

When the shaking and sifting occurs by the mark of the beast being enforced, those who remain faithful will have seal of God given to us by the Holy Spirit. But the sifting will take place and many will lose faith in our purpose which is to be true followers of Jesus Christ our Savior and not followers of men.

“Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and ***few ***there be that find it.” (Matthew 7:14 - emphasis added)

Andrew

 

[happilycatholic]

This is how you people explain and justify the things you do.

This kind of comment infuriates me. “you people” ?? Where does it say in the Scriptures that you personally have a right to judge anyone about their religion? Where does it say in the Scriptures that if someone believes something you don’t, you can and should chastise them?

Anything else is theater for heathens and the door to destruction.

And where is Scripture does it say you are allowed to call people names and judge them because they believe things you don’t?

I think this kind of thing is absolutely forbidden in Scripture.

If you know so much why don’t you know you are in the Lenten season? A time to reflect on Christ’s resurrection and a time to be charitible?

 

[djconklin]

Where would our graduate students have gone to get those doctorate degrees in that scenario?

Not relevant. You’ve assumed way too much based on no actual evidence. I repeat: no SDA univeristy hired any secular scholars, period.

The mission of our church underhandedly (subtly) changed which can be seen in our logo having been changed in 1995 to the Catholic church’s suggestion to all churches to use the open Bible, cross & flame.

Ah! A new claim with no evidence to support it. I’m beginning to see pattern. And I don’t like it!

The rest wasn’t relevant to the questions I asked.​

If you know so much why don’t you know you are in the Lenten season?

Because he isn’t Catholic. We believe in reflecting on the sacrfice of Christ in a thoughtful hour every day.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Wow the very same polemic used that the Jews didnt crucify Christ the Romans did. Yes the Jews and the RCC used the civil rulers of the time to carry out their desires.

Gabriel of 12;

Correction; The Jews were Jews and Romans were Romans, the simple fact is the Kings in the middle ages where Catholic, thus the Catholic church is wrongly accused of What Catholic Royalty or Rulers did in their Kingdoms. Just want to make sure we are on the same page when discussing history. Maybe you should consider these facts before condemning the body of Jesus Christ.

The good news is; That Christ built his Church for sinners, and boy have we Catholics had them, so the Catholic church still exists today these 2000 years and counting.

Peace be with you

 

[andrea3710]

And where is Scripture does it say you are allowed to call people names and judge them because they believe things you don’t?

I think this kind of thing is absolutely forbidden in Scripture.

If you know so much why don’t you know you are in the Lenten season? A time to reflect on Christ’s resurrection and a time to be charitible?

I am really sorry if you feel insulted by anything I said but that was not my intention.It would be good if you would understand that I am struggling to write in a foreign language and it takes me long time to write a post and if “you people” is something that insults you I am sorry but I am not sorry for making the point yet I do not see answer on my questions yet there is old same tactic of making the one who asks questions look like a wolf and bad person,Jesus,John the Apostle and some others used strong language like “brood of vipers” etc…they did not care if anyone was insulted,they were not pleased with them who twist the truth and make dark out of daylight. Lente season? Do you want me to write about that and about origins of Easter? Let me ask you where is the link between resurrection of Jesus and easter bunny or easter eggs? Maybe in the Bible? I guess not. Had Jesus resurrected when the position of the moon was right,if not,why do we have every year different date of celebrating Easter ? I am still waiting to convert to Roman Catholic if you find me Biblical grounds of all this men made/inspired religion.I hope my direct questions are not insulting and if they are I am sorry because not having answers and Biblical grounds can be insulting.

 

[andrea3710]

happilycatholic,if your post was directed to me show me where I called you names? " You people" is a figure of speach and used in my language often and I explained that English is foreign language to me. You condemn your own religion by not answering my questions.
By the way I am not saying anything that Bible does not say about false teachers and doctrines.I judge not for God is and will be the judge and would never ever want to be in the position of a judge.Words in the Bible are also judging those who live not according to the given doctrines. As I already said I do not care about denominations at all,if we call ourselves Christians we should live as such and live according to the basic doctrines of the earliest Apostolic church if we are not ready for that then we are living under the false name.

 

[graceandglory]

Now compare them with the Hebrew, or in English: Young’s Literal Translation.

why would i want to do** that? **

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I don’t think I can have a meaningful discussion with you. You’re spewing out vague references to Scripture but have you actually studied them in their context to know what they’re really saying? Have you really read the things I’ve posted?

Gabriel of 12;
I have read your posts and explained the soul sleep teaching is not christian teaching never was and never will be. The references from scripture I speak of compliments the subject at hand, I took you as one who could understand these commentaries, if you need book, chapter and verse to help you understand my undertaking here just ask? If one can use scriptural content in their speech, common sense would tell you that the scriptural content is believed and already has been studied.

The difference is, I propose to you apostolic biblical intrepretation that conflicts with your 20th century interpretation of scripture. From what I gather thus far from your posts, is that you bring out all these English translations from a Latin or Greek word and reference many different meanings of the word,and then you get to choose which one you want to use for your own 20th century interpretation.

I only ask you, What ever happened to the original author of the text? What ever happened to the “idiums” expressed in the text? what ever happened to original authors frame of thought that recorded the text? all these and more from your posts does not correctly interpret the text, but only a display that you have educated yourself outside the biblical context with your SDA belief’s force into the text.

You appear to be interpreting scripture by displaying the Greek, or Latin text of words, but you leave out the “heart” of the text of what is believed at the time of the recording of the text. Remember the New Testament are letters of what has already been believed and taught, and not everything was written. By you leaving out the heart of the text, leaves you to your own personal interpretations of scripture, because you have no apostolic succession. I can understand this comment does not entertain you, because I have not brought out any Greek or Latin arguments of words yet to have you entertained. Thus far we have not engaged in scriptural content specifically, only from what interpretation do we follow. I propose to you an Apostolic interpretation, and you believe in your own interpretation, which I do not have the luxury as you do to entertain. Meaning I hold to an unchanging interpretation of scripture from its original content and belief from Apostolic Tradition teachings not man made or 20th century interpretation. Now that I have set this perspective from which I draw the biblical interpretation, I leave you with the welcome.

Bible Truth;
Do you really think that when Jesus died on the Friday that His soul went to some unknown place and literally preached to dead spirits before being resurrected on Sunday morning (1 Peter 3:19)? If you actually studied this passage you will see what it’s really teaching. What Peter was saying is that the same Holy Spirit that brought Jesus back to life is the same Holy Spirit that spoke through Noah in an attempt to save a sin-sick world from the impending detestation of the Flood. Read the entire passage for yourself and don’t isolate one text to form or support a false theology.

Gabriel of 12;
Ok, Bible Truth. here is your Catholic Apostolic bible teaching for the day, because you deny the True death and resurrection of Jesus. I will personally give you a biblical account of what took place when Jesus died.

Jesus Christ who descended into the dead also ascended (no soul sleep) the question to ask yourself what does it mean to descend? if we all know what ascend means.
Ephesians 4:9-10

Tell you what you read it again here and without your distorted 20th century interpretations: and lets let scripture give the witness account;
1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also suffered 5 for sins once, the righteous for the sake of the unrighteous, that he might lead you to God. Put to death in the flesh, he was brought to life in the spirit.
19
In it he also went to preach to the spirits in prison, 6
20
who had once been disobedient while God patiently waited in the days of Noah during the building of the ark, in which a few persons, eight in all, were saved through water.
21
This prefigured baptism, which saves you now. It is not a removal of dirt from the body but an appeal to God 7 for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22
who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him.

You dont have to twist the Greek language or be a Greek/ Latin biblical scholar to understand that Jesus preached to the Spirits in prison since Noahs day, Jesus did not “Soul Sleep” as you claim SDA’s believe and teach.

cont;

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Wait there is more;
How about those in death and in heaven with knees?
Philippians 2:20 (every knee should bend of those in Heaven and on the earth and under the earth… will confess Jesus is Lord… Here are some more verses for you; Acts 2:24, Rev.1:8, Eph.4:9, How about some old testaments; Psalm 6:6, 88:11-13

Here is Kephas again who explicitly states the gospel was preached to the dead, I know we have not touched on the general judgment or the personal judgement of God when we die, so here is Peter again teaching that the DEAD WILL BE JUDGED. How can the dead be judged by God if they are to busy soul sleeping?
1 Peter 4:5
but they will give an account to him who stands ready to judge the living and the dead.
6
For this is why the gospel was preached even to the dead 2 that, though condemned in the flesh in human estimation, they might live in the spirit in the estimation of God.

Here are scriptures that speak of the dead hearing the voice of Jesus; John 5:25, How about Jonah being alive in the whale, when Jesus himself compares himself will be just like Jonah in the Whale for 3 days, or do you believe Jesus was lying when he said Jonah was in the belly of the whale for 3 days in a soul sleep? See Mathew 12:40

See also Ephesians 4:9 confirming Jesus descended into the “Sheol” in Hebrew or “Hades” in Greek and ascended into heaven, both describe an action not a “soul sleep”.

What does it mean when scripture states that Jesus has the keys of Death and Hades? Does one need a key to such “soul sleep” belief’s? I realize this Death and Hades is a bit off topic but I reference why does Jesus need authority over “Soul Sleep”? If Soul sleep were real, Why beleive in Jesus Christ? When one can look foward to an eternal “Soul Sleep” of rest from living?

I can understand your sentiments of my not understanding your biblical interpretational belief’s, Even the Death mentioned in scripture, I can assure your interpretation will be one of “Spiritual death”, but let me affirm you here, that no where in sacred scripture does the Spirit mean symbolic as might intend to interpret here.

So yes,to answer you question? I have studied the text of 1 Peter 3:18-19 supported by the Apostles Written and Oral Traditions. Not 20th century man made interpretations from English translated Greek/latin words.

Bible Truth:
It’s very interesting that whenever a non-Sabbath keeper talks about the Law, they only reference the fourth commandment. Does not wanting to keep the Sabbath mean you can freely break the other nine? What is it about the Sabbath that you’re so much against?

Gabriel of 12;

I am at all against the Sabbath, what makes you think that? What I am against is SDA misinforming the public about my Catholic faith. Hey if you think your honoring the Sabbath, then Leave with this scripture; and let Moses be the judge of you;

John 5:39
You search 14 the scriptures, because you think you have eternal life through them; even they testify on my behalf.
40
But you do not want to come to me to have life.
41
“I do not accept human praise; 15
42
moreover, I know that you do not have the love of God in you.
43
I came in the name of my Father, but you do not accept me; yet if another comes in his own name, you will accept him.
44
How can you believe, when you accept praise from one another and do not seek the praise that comes from the only God?
**45
Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father: the one who will accuse you is Moses, in whom you have placed your hope.
46
For if you had believed Moses, you would have believed me, because he wrote about me.
47
But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?” **

Peace be with you

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Hello andrea3710; I came across some of your posts and could not understand why you have a false pretense of what Catholics believe, especially about Mary.

Please allow me to explain what I myself a Roman Catholic believes about the blessed Virgin Mary. I dont want to get scriptural with you here, I prefer to give you personal interpretation of what I believe as a Catholic about Mary the mother of Jesus.

I have been a Roman Catholic all my life. And I have never once believed that I worshipped Mary, nor have I ever met a Catholic who claimed they did. In fact the Catholic church never has ever taught or believed in such a thing as worshipping Mary. Please allow me to explain.

You see, as a Catholic we know and believe that God is God of the living not the dead. I understand our faiths differ in the afterlife, you hold to “Soul sleep” while I as a Catholic believe in Life after death in Jesus Christ. Back to my point, My Catholic faith is not just a religion, but it is a family. A family that begins with a Mother, a Father and a Son. This Catholic family is eternal, it consist of members from the past, present and future. You see as a Catholic we believe that Mary is alive in heaven with her son Jesus. The world today does not know where her body lays today? We know where Jesus tomb is, we know and have eyewitness accounts of all the Old and new testament saints death and tombs are, but not Mary’s, Enoch’s, and Elijah’s.

Back to the Catholic family. Let’s say you went to Jesus house in the first century and knocked on the door, who do you think would answer the door? Joseph is probably dead by now so Probably Mary the mother of Jesus. This is the Catholic family in action. When we want to go and talk to Jesus, sometimes we acknowledge pay her homage as the Angel Gabriel did in his greeting of Mary as “Hail Mary” full of Grace the Lord is with you, which includes Elizabeths greeting also, or respect Jesus mother before entering into his presence.

Now as a Catholic we believe Jesus is the only mediator between God and man. But to see our Lord and Savior before going to the almighty, we as a family can and sometimes seek the presence of Our Mother in heaven Mary who is always with Jesus. What child does not seek the advice or intercession of his Mother before speaking with his Father. We see Mary as our Mother not a false goddess as you falsely claim of my Catholic faith.

I as a Catholic when I pray to “Abba” Father on my knees, because I pray with Mary and Jesus at this time as a family, does not mean that I am worshipping Mary, but that I as a Catholic in the eternal family of God am acknowlegding and believing that I am a child of the living God, who has a Mother in Mary of whom Jesus gave us in his dying breath on the cross.

There is much more I could disclose here, but my main point is speaking as a Catholic, I dont view my faith as a religion in the world, I view my Catholic faith as one eternal family in the communion of saints In God the Father through our Lord Jesus Christ, of which we have a Mother in the blessed virgin Mary the new Eve of the New and everlasting covenant, that gives life.

I understand that your belief in soul sleep divides our understanding of the after life in Jesus Christ, and it may be difficult for you to understand. As a Catholic we truly believe and give testimony that Jesus truly resurrected from the dead and conquered death.

Tell me do you have a picture of a loved one in your house? In a Catholic church we have many loved family members of our Catholic faith who are children of Mary who obey God’s commandments and give have given testimony of Jesus with their lives. This is no different from your loved ones pictures you may have at home. I would not condemn you for having a picture of your past loved ones as Idol worship because you possess a picture of someone special in your life?

When you hear of or see a Catholic kneeling before a statue or picture of Jesus, Mary, Angel or Saint, we are not worshipping the statue or picture, we are calling to mind in our prayer to “Abba Father” that we are family in the oneness of God almighty with our Mother Mary, her son Jesus and our heavenly Father in heaven.

So where does one see idol worship or woshipping of Mary when we are a Catholic (universal) family world wide and in heaven. In one body of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.

Peace be with you

 

[djconklin]

Originally Posted by djconklin
Now compare them with the Hebrew, or in English: Young’s Literal Translation.

why would i want to do that?

To check and see if the translators got it right.

Thank you for responding vs evading like the others have done.

 

[djconklin]

You dont have to twist the Greek language or be a Greek/ Latin biblical scholar to understand that Jesus preached to the Spirits in prison since Noahs day, Jesus did not “Soul Sleep” as you claim SDA’s believe and teach.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Acts 13:36-37 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.

John 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.

John 11:11 11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

The Greek word for “hail” is “chairō” and it has a few meanings: 1) to rejoice, be glad, 2) to rejoice exceedingly, 3) to be well, thrive, 4) in salutations, hail!, 5) at the beginning of letters: to give one greeting, salute. The angel was speaking directly to Mary to give her the news about her holy conception. That’s it. It wasn’t license to use her name in any to any degree in any form of worship or prayer.

I especially like “to rejoice exceedingly”!!! When I pray…and by prayer I mean talking to someone and opening your heart to them as you would to a friend…similar as in praying to God and yet completely different since prayer and talking to God is unique compared with praying and talking to or with anyone else…but when I pray to Mary, it is with exceeding rejoicing…I like that definition!!! Thanks for the information!!!

While this passage may not give “license” as you say…I do not agree with your conclusion except as pertains to worship. Once again let me repeat…I do not worship Mary…I worship God. If you do not agree at least understand that point as far as it pertains to me, and I would assume most Catholics…I cannot speak for all Catholics, just as I cannot speak for all Adventists. I know most Adventists do not worship Ellen White, but I have met a few who have more than a worshipful attitude to her.

But as for me an you…let’s please be clear at least on where you and I stand regarding these issues.

John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit before he was even born (Luke 1:15). The fact that he moved in response to hearing Mary’s voice was likely because Mary, herself, was filled with the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:35). Again, there’s nothing here that remotely even indicates that we were to use Mary’s name in prayer.

Oh make no mistake about it…not only is it likely that Mary was filled with the Holy Spirit…she in fact was filled with the Holy Spirit…In fact, at this point she was also filled with The Son and The Father…The entire Godhead made flesh in Mary’s body…her womb. But now as far as the license issue and using Mary’s name in prayer, you are really beginning to los me agreeing with you at this point.

I have asked people on these forums to pray for me. I have asked Advevntists on these forums to pray for me…and I feel safe to say that none of us were ever asked to be the person to participate in the Incarnation of God. So, to ask Mary to pray for me, and knowing that she will, REALLY makes me REJOICE EXCEEDINGLY!!!

In Luke 1:48, the word Mary used to say all generations would call her blessed is “makarizō” and it simply means, “to pronounce blessed”. The word for “blessed” is the Greek word “eulogeō”, which has several meanings, some of which indicate consecrating something (like communion bread, for example). This word is used over 40 times in the New Testament and in the context of Luke 1:48, it means to “be favored of God”. Look at its usage in Acts 3:26 or Romans 12:14 and see if the way you’re attributing its usage to in Luke 1:48 can be used in those verses as well. Once more, trying to use the wording in this passage for more than what it’s saying is simply trying to support a weak theology that has no biblical grounds. It’s tradition, plain and simple.

For me to prononce, or declare, or shout from the rooftops that Mary is blessed works for me and is fulfillment of Mary’s prophecy. Again, thank you so much for the information!!

God bless all!!!

(cont’d)

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

(cont’d 2)

Mary was a special woman who had a special part to play in the history of mankind. I’m looking forward to seeing her on resurrection morning and I praise God for what He did through her. There’s no question that she was blessed in a beautiful way by God, but ask yourself…don’t you feel blessed to be in a saving relationship with Christ, as well? Hasn’t God worked wonders in your life to make you feel special? I certainly do! God blesses us in different ways, but it doesn’t elevate any of us over another.

I feel most blessed in my life to be in a saving relationship with God!!! He has indeed worked wonders in my life and continues to do so every day!!!

So Noah was in no different position with God than the rest of his family? So
Abraham was in no different position with God than his descendants? So Moses was in no different position with God than those who followed him through the desert? So David was in no different position with God than the subjects of his Kingdom? So in your own church, Ellen White is no different position with God than the rest of the members?

I agree that God loves us all equally and unconditionally…yet that does not negate the fact that while we each have a role to play in the plan of salvation, there are those who have held more prominant roles…and as Jesus pointed out, the greatest are those who are the lowest and most humble servants.

On Mother’s Day a couple years ago, my pastor gave a beautiful sermon that gave special acknowledgment to Mary. I agree that you don’t hear many sermons on her but there’s good reason for that - Jesus is our intercessor and Mary isn’t. It’s not a slight against Mary but it’s just the way it is.

That was nice of your pastor! Jesus, as our High Priest, is our intercessor when it comes to pleading and presenting His sacrifice and blood for the forgiveness of our sins. Mary cannot intercede in that way, I cannot intercede in that way, and you cannot intercede in that way. But as members of The Chruch, we most certainly CAN and DO intercede for each other in prayer. I know for a fact that SDAs welcome prayer requests from members for their concerns and that they do indeed pray for each other. Catholics…and most protestant denominations do that as well. Mary, as a member of God’s Church, CAN and DOES pray for us as well. And how many times have we prayed to God for others to be delivered from sins that are destoying their lives?

There are many intercessors…in fact every Christian should be an intercessor for every other person in need. But this is not to be confused with the intercession Jesus makes to The Father on our behalf for the forgiveness of our sins.

I doubt my response will change the way you feel, but the Bible can stand on it’s own when it comes to this understanding. What’s been done to Mary’s legacy is unfortunate because it ties her in to numerous pagan beliefs and rituals. You, personally, may not believe she’s a deity, but I’ve seen people bowing down to her image. Whether they’re praying to God or not, that practice is forbidden and it wouldn’t be happening if it was never taught.

I agree that what has been done to Mary’s legacy is unfortunate, but that has not been because of The Catholic Church. The protestant legacy of minimalizing Mary and reducing her faith and service to God and mankind is what is unfortunate.

God bless all!!!

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

Do you still keep the Sabbath holy? (Please know that I’m not asking with a sarcastic tone.)

I don’t believe you are being sarcastic.

No, I do no longer observe the sabbath/saturday. I have posted the reasons for this on other threads.

God bless all!!!

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

Patrick,
BibleTruth;4983811:

Mary didn’t flee to the wilderness for 1260 years so that negates your understanding of Revelation 12. Even if they were literal days, there’s no reference to that anywhere in the New Testament.

It only negates my understand of Revelation 12 if I accept your, and thereby the SDA, interpretation of Revelation 12. I do not. We disagree on this.

How would Revelation 12:15-16 fit into your interpretation of this chapter applying to Mary? Also, how would verse 17 fit into Catholic belief that Mary didn’t have any other children and remained a virgin her entire life?

Please let me know. Thanks.

Rev. 12:15Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God’s commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus. NIV

As for verses 15-16, We know the efforts that satan went to in order to kill Jesus as an infant. Having never been in that situation I would imagine that the knowledge of what satan was trying to do would be overwhelming…much like in our daily trials we sometimes feel overwhelmed like a torrent, or tidal wave is about to overtake us…but multiplied immensely in the case of Mary, Joseph, and Jesust. The fled to Egypt for safety. For these events to be presented to John in vision…well…that must have been overwhelming for him too.

As for verse 17, I will give you my high level understanding of this and we can do deeper of course. Mary is the Mother of Jesus. On the cross Jesus gave Mary to John as his mother, and John to Mary as her son. In this act, Mary becomes mother not only to Jesus but this disciple. All who obey God’s commandments and the testimony, or teachings of Jesus, become sons and daughters of God. We both know that the Bible teaches that Jesus is our Brother.

Based on that, Mary, first as the mother of Jesus, then as the mother of John, becomes mother of all disciples and believers in Jesus. We as adopted sons and daughters of God become one family with God as our Father, Jesus as our Brother, and Mary as the Mother of us all. It is a wonderful family thing!!!

I explained how to delineate between Revelation 11 & Revelation 12 to show that the two prophecies are not directly related and I gave biblical references as to why the staff and the manna were in the ark. Jesus is our high priest now and only He can intermediate on our behalf before God which was the role of the earthly priests in the earthly sanctuary.

We disagree regarding the end of chapter 11 being in context with chapter 12.

As I stated earlier, I do agree with you regarding Jesus as our High Priest and that only He can mediate on our behalf before God as our High Priest. Once again, Mary is not our High Priest and that is not her role in our lives. But she does have an important and loving role in our lives!!!

You mentioned going to CUC and I find that interesting. Ellen White warned against having our schools receive state accreditation because once that happened (after she died), they had to bring in secular scholars to meet certain requirements. Our students are generally not getting the education they should be getting and as a result in some cases, they’re leaving school more spiritually confused than when they went in. This is not a personal attack against you, but it’s to highlight that Satan has his crafty hands in any and everything that is set up to do God’s work on this earth. Those who can discern when his evil is at work are those who will stand firm in the end.

Andrew

I was at CUC between 1979 and 1982, and I can assure you that all of my theology professors were solid, conservative, SDAs. There were no secular scholars there. I don’t know what has happened since then, but that was not the case.

To infer that I am spiritually confused because of SDA college professors is non-sense and bogus. It is because of the solid Adventist education and training I received that it has taken me 26 years to finally see the Light and embrace the fullness of the Gospel in God’s Holy Catholic Church!

God bless all!!!

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

There are so many texts in the Bible that talk about blessed people,blessed seed and nations and land but still never in any parts of the Bible was allowed to be worshiped anything blessed but God.

And this is the beginning and end of your misunderstanding of Catholicism.

Mary is not worshipped…only God is worshipped.

I pray that one of these times you will hear that inspite of your animosity toward the Catholic Church.

God bless all!!!

 

[happilycatholic]

I am really sorry if you feel insulted by anything I said but that was not my intention.It would be good if you would understand that I am struggling to write in a foreign language and it takes me long time to write a post and if “you people” is something that insults you I am sorry but I am not sorry for making the point yet I do not see answer on my questions yet there is old same tactic of making the one who asks questions look like a wolf and bad person,Jesus,John the Apostle and some others used strong language like “brood of vipers” etc…they did not care if anyone was insulted,they were not pleased with them who twist the truth and make dark out of daylight. Lente season? Do you want me to write about that and about origins of Easter? Let me ask you where is the link between resurrection of Jesus and easter bunny or easter eggs? Maybe in the Bible? I guess not. Had Jesus resurrected when the position of the moon was right,if not,why do we have every year different date of celebrating Easter ? I am still waiting to convert to Roman Catholic if you find me Biblical grounds of all this men made/inspired religion.I hope my direct questions are not insulting and if they are I am sorry because not having answers and Biblical grounds can be insulting.

I’m sorry, did I mention anything about the Easter bunny or eggs??? Diversion sweetie, and I’m not falling for it. Be nice. That’s easy in any language. Calling people heathens is calling people heathens. Own your mistake and move on.

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HC

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

Wow. There has been some serious interpretation of Revelation going on here. I’m looking forward to hearing what you have to say Patrick. As always, you are a charitible steward of the catholic faith and I for one value your (name removed by moderator)ut.

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~HC

Hi HC!!!

It is nice to “bump” into you again here!!! I hope all is well with you!! In a few weeks I will be joining you at the Lord’s Table to partake in the Lamb’s Supper with you…and I am so happy and exceedingly joyful about that…as are my R.C.I.A. classmates.

This Lenten season is the first one I’ve ever taken seriously and participated in…and it has been a blessing to say the least…wow…what a blessed season!! I’ve been reading “The Imitation of Christ” by Thomas Akempis and it is like a magnifying glass lighting up the soul. I have discovered areas in my life that require the transforming grace of God, about which I have never seen or acknowledged before. God’s sanctification process is so wonderful.

I just have to tell you that I love you in such a very special way!!! It was your thoughts regarding the sabbath/sunday issue that really cleared up the remaining doubts in my mind, and I have been thinking, contemplating, and meditating on that concept for a while now. Only scratching the surface, so I look forward to how that will develop and progress in the future.

I posted some high level thoughts on that over at the SDAtoCatholic blog sda2rc.blogspot.com/ I just began posting there and it is a good site with SDAs and former SDAs now Catholic. The posters there are very scholarly (so I’m learning a lot) and very Christian in spirit. My login name there is** Mike S.** if you want to check it out.

So I take it that you have been reading the posts on this thread. These are very accurate examples of how SDAs think about and view Catholicism. I used to hold very firmly to these beliefs and opinions as expressed by the SDAs on these recent posts.

So now you may better understand what I meant when I used to tell you that it was nothing short of a miracle that God blessed me with the grace to accept and believe the fullness of His Truth by reconcilling with His Church! It still amazes me each day!!

You are in our prayers daily!!

God bless all!!!

 

[Hisalone]

And this is the beginning and end of your misunderstanding of Catholicism.

Mary is not worshipped…only God is worshipped.

I pray that one of these times you will hear that inspite of your animosity toward the Catholic Church.

God bless all!!!

Sola Deo Gloria—God Alone be the glory.

Honor and glory is given to Mary that alone is due God.