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Draper
Guest
I’m curious – would morning dress be appropriate for a morning Mass and a tuxedo (black tie) for an evening Mass?
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Draper
Guest
Why aren’t jeans appropriate for church? Says who?
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Regina7
Guest
Why wouldn’t you want to look your best for the King of Kings? And please don’t say you are too poor for anything “nice” because your access to a computer and the internet would suggest otherwise. You also may want to read this entire thread as I believe your question was already thoroughly answered.
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kozlosap
Guest
Now my question has to be this:
Who decides what is appropriate or not? YOU? The Pastor?
Remember, that there are more garments considered jeans bought and worn than any other fabric of pants. I’m do not know your age, but are you out and about in the business world? Most businesses now adhere to a business casual rules, especially here on the West Coast and in the Silicon Valley. I don’t recall ever seeing Steve Jobs dressed in a three piece suit when announcing any of Apple’s world changing products. When we go to mass we are to be focused on our interior spirituality, not obsessed with putting on Spanx and pumps in order to please the parish fashion police. Now, are there exceptions to my own “rules”? Yep, the older gentleman that wore shorts with no underwear on and then crossed his legs would be my example. Maybe I will leave a pair of new Jocky’s in his misselette. LOL !
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fmchan52
Guest
Why are jeans appropriate for church. Says who?
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kozlosap
Guest
Me!
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Draper
Guest
I asked the question “Why aren’t jeans appropriate for church? Says who?” which you did not address.
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Draper
Guest
I do.
Jeans can be humble, modest, clean and in good repair. That makes them appropriate for Mass.
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Denise1957
Guest
Did you read the OP?
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OraLabora
Guest
I’m of the monastic philosophy of humble attire. While I don’t wear jeans to Mass, I believe that is a personal choice. As long as they’re neat and clean, who cares?
In winter when it gets very cold I’ll wear my warm cords and a polar vest (I wear it continually in winter, I joke that it is my scapular
) Otherwise in summer, khakis, short sleeved shirt or polo, and sandals. Even the monks at the abbey where I attend Mass wear sandals, and of course their habits are plain and simple. As an oblate, I consider plain and simple street clothes my “habit”. I try to present my authentic self before Jesus. Wearing a suit or tie is not the authentic “me”. It is the fake self trying to sell myself at a job interview…
The bottom line here is that this is a very personal thing, and the only real expectation I dare have for others is modesty. The abbey has a sign in front that says “this is a house of God, modest attire is befitting”. Alas these days, especially in summer, people seem to have a loose definition of “modest”.
I’d be happy if we just worked on tightening up the standards for modesty, rather than worrying if jeans are appropriate or not. After all the Bible teaches that interior disposition and a contrite heart are by far the most important things we can wear to worship God.
In winter when it gets very cold I’ll wear my warm cords and a polar vest (I wear it continually in winter, I joke that it is my scapular
) Otherwise in summer, khakis, short sleeved shirt or polo, and sandals. Even the monks at the abbey where I attend Mass wear sandals, and of course their habits are plain and simple. As an oblate, I consider plain and simple street clothes my “habit”. I try to present my authentic self before Jesus. Wearing a suit or tie is not the authentic “me”. It is the fake self trying to sell myself at a job interview…The bottom line here is that this is a very personal thing, and the only real expectation I dare have for others is modesty. The abbey has a sign in front that says “this is a house of God, modest attire is befitting”. Alas these days, especially in summer, people seem to have a loose definition of “modest”.
I’d be happy if we just worked on tightening up the standards for modesty, rather than worrying if jeans are appropriate or not. After all the Bible teaches that interior disposition and a contrite heart are by far the most important things we can wear to worship God.
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Denise1957
Guest
Perhaps you could point out where in Scripture that this is addressed. Thanks.
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Draper
Guest
It’s amusing when people suggest all should dress “nice” for the Mass. Just what does “nice” mean (the definition changes from person to person) and why exactly should we dress “nice” to be in God’s presence? The tortured examples of: meeting the President of the US, a job interview and weddings simply don’t make any sense.
More concretely, I think we need to dress: humbly and modestly in clean clothes that are in good repair when we attend Mass.
More concretely, I think we need to dress: humbly and modestly in clean clothes that are in good repair when we attend Mass.
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Draper
Guest
My question has yet to be answered.
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Denise1957
Guest
When using the term ‘modestly’ above, are to referring mainly to the avoidance of wearing revealing clothing? In my mind, modesty means more than that.
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Draper
Guest
You bring up a very interesting point. Years ago when I was a senior in college I read John T. Molloy’s classic book Dress for Success. In it he mentions those serving on a jury who dress in a manner alien to their everyday lives as people to be careful about. The certified public accountant who shows up for jury duty in a aloha shirt. The plumber who shows up in an impeccable 3 piece suit with all the trimmings.I’m of the monastic philosophy of humble attire. While I don’t wear jeans to Mass, I believe that is a personal choice. As long as they’re neat and clean, who cares?
In winter when it gets very cold I’ll wear my warm cords and a polar vest (I wear it continually in winter, I joke that it is my scapular
The bottom line here is that this is a very personal thing, and the only real expectation I dare have for others is modesty. The abbey has a sign in front that says “this is a house of God, modest attire is befitting”. Alas these days, especially in summer, people seem to have a loose definition of “modest”.
I’d be happy if we just worked on tightening up the standards for modesty, rather than worrying if jeans are appropriate or not. After all the Bible teaches that interior disposition and a contrite heart are by far the most important things we can wear to worship God.
There’s something fake about them. Something to be concerned about.
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OraLabora
Guest
See post 78 and the parable of the Pharisee and the publican, as well as Ps 50(51):
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Draper
Guest
I guess what I find so amusing is that some people so desperately cling to a growingly archaic model of dress (suit and tie) as being some sort of uber-appropriate uniform to wear while attending the Mass.
It would make a lot more sense to talk in terms of humility, modesty, simplicity and frugality when trying to suggest what one should wear while attending Mass.
It would make a lot more sense to talk in terms of humility, modesty, simplicity and frugality when trying to suggest what one should wear while attending Mass.
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Denise1957
Guest
The quote you provided mentions sacrifice and a broken spirit. How much of a sacrifice is it to just wear casual clothing to Mass, with no effort other than making sure the clothing is clean and in good repair?
There may be different opinions on what constitutes a broken spirit. In my mind, it means that we give all glory to God, and to not be attached to drawing attention to ourselves by trying to show “who we really are” in this life. Aren’t we supposed to rise above our earthly selves and condition at Mass, and think only about God, rather than being concerned about showing what our personalities are at Mass? At Mass, we are there to give all thanksgiving to God. It isn’t about us.
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OraLabora
Guest
I agree completely. Moreover, the title of the thread says “dress like a man”. That can mean many different things across cultures and eras, and even today in Scotland formal male attire can be radically different from a western business suit
The title should really read “conform to the current Western social norm of formal male business attire”. It has everything to do with someone’s definition of social fashion, and nothing to do with authenticity and humility. It’s also a changing fashion, as formal suits and ties are quickly going the way of the dodo in the business world and elsewhere.
Surely we can cut a plumber or auto mechanic some slack when he stops in at the 7 am weekday Mass on his way to work, in his work clothes, and say he is “dressed like a man”? Or even on Sunday if he’s forced to work on Sunday to support his family?
This tendency of judging by appearances that some folks have give me the creeps…
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OraLabora
Guest
The whole point of the three references I gave you is that a contrite heart is the sacrifice pleasing to God, not outward appearances. It isn’t about showing who we are but being honest and humble about who we are.
Again, it is a matter of private opinion. Please don’t judge others if they see it differently from you and dress plainly. There is no way to read into a person’s heart based on how they are dressed. The most honest guy I’ve ever known dresses simply, and the biggest con man I’ve ever met wears a suit.
My spiritual values (monastic) promote simplicity, humility, poverty an detachment from worldly things. It is an ancient tradition of the Church to which I and many others are deeply attached. If formal attire means as much to you as simplicity does to me, I promise to do my best to avoid judging you because of it, and only ask the same respect for my values in return
The beauty of Catholicism is that it is a big tent that accommodates many spiritual movements such as mendicants, monastics, charismatics, lay movements, teaching and hospital orders and I could go on. We need to be far more tolerant of our differences, in fact be far more supportive of the different but authentic spiritualities that should in fact unite us around the same table.
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