Drinking alcohol and smoking pot – what are your thoughts?

[J_the_Centrist]

So he hung out and drank with ate with “sinners” yet you think he somehow fit into a conservative crowd? He chilled with prostitues dude! He knew and said we are “all gods children” Not by birth, but by the fact that we are all from the same source. We are all one.

What kingdom are you refering too? Jesus never said such a thing. He actaully said - and I quote “man will search high and low for the kingdom of god, and he will never find it… for what he does not know is… the kingdom is inside him”. Its not a destination we are heading towards. We are already there J. Live your life to its fullest. Eat, drink and be marry… that is the true gift from god. Heaven is real, it just does not exist out in space somewhere. it is inside you… where else do you think it would be. and if that is the case, there really is nothing you can do to prevent yourself from getting there… as you are already there.

These are not my words, these come from Jesus.

Hell, and all those places are just man made stories. they don’t really exist… you have been in heaven for a very long time… He gave you everything you need, you just simply need to start living the eternal joy… that part is up to you.

Peace

Where to begin? Ok, if you would like to suggest that in some ways Jesus’ teachings were Aristotelian, in that one should not abuse such things as drinking, but drinking is not bad in and of itself, fine. Yes, he hung around with prostitutes, so what? I talk to and hug homeless friends of mine in my neighborhood and my “normal” friends, some are very liberal BTW, think I am nuts for doing that and yes I really do that! Jesus went to the outcasts and marginalized to show that God loves every human being and hell can probably mean separation from God, which is a punishment. We all have a choice to make, follow in God’s ways or not, it’s very simple and no I am not, nor did I ever say Jesus was conservative, but conservatives are not wrong in everything with regards to him, nor are they always right. In case you haven’t figured it out yet, I am not a conservative, but to reiterate Jesus was not an “anything goes” type of guy. From what I can gather from the few posts that I read, you and I both like marijuana (can’t smoke, but wish I could) and are former addicts, drunks, or whatever. We are both probably around the same age (late 20s or early 30s) and you are probably educated, as I am. If so, I encourage you to go for the highest degree possible, as I intend to do when I continue my education after receiving my master’s degree and go for my doctorate. However, I part with you completely in one sense, you have left the faith and I have chosen to stay, I am not contemning you by saying this I am just stating the facts and coming from an interfaith family I would never condemn anyone for having different beliefs. When I think of Christianity I think about Francis of Assisi or Therese of Lisieux and many others (the friars who feed the homeless here in NYC every morning on 31st street in Manhattan), while you probably think of Richard the Lionheart (Richard I of England) or King Leopold II of Belgium (look it up if you are unsure of who he was) and many others. I see the world through Christian eye’s, not through religious syncretic eye’s as you seem to see the world, nothing wrong with that, but don’t expect Christians to see things the same way. Peace

 

[GaryTaylor]

I am not guilty of anything at all however, for me to suggest that my life would be better off if I never drank would be nothing less than fallacious dishonesty.

Self honesty, Amen, leads to Salvation. Guilt I’m referring to the broader sense of the word, which is a transgression of moral standards, then coming to terms with it, you see the comparison with vice especially in the realm of Christianity. Its a struggle as you are aware for example with confession. Often with recovering addicts they are the last to forgive themselves and in reflection of the life they lived. This is true in the struggle with any vice as the internal conflict continues long after your forgiven. Anyway you have an idea on my thinking. No harm intended, I’m not questioning your integrity.

Pot is something that I can’t consume anyway, but if you have never smoked weed and enjoyed it you don’t understand what I mean. I grew up with people who have done far worse drugs than I ever did and we weren’t rich kids from the suburbs.

I clearly understand you, and am familiar with these neighborhoods as I worked at Daytop for years running the second shift, grew up in the 60’s as a young adult. I have the T-Shirt. Relating to addicts is an issue which doesn’t accompany me. Though I see here without insight to war stories my experience is negated? This is “very” common with addicts. Its not the messenger, its the message, though I admit the messenger gives it more weight. Now going into detail shouldn’t be taken as I don’t know, very much on the contrary…I do. I know what the sewer smells like.

Call it a disease, addiction, crutch or whatever you like, once you quit an addiction you can never, ever go back to it again and I have enough experience and friends who are dead or in jail to know that.

I’d like to come back to this in detail, this is where my thinking resides with recovery, More important I want you to think about everything you honestly stated here and above. Now look at the difference in thinking in the next quote.

if it weren’t for my job I’d probably do it once in a while,.

Same internal conflict I’m talking about above J.

Basing your recovery on your job may be well and fine for the moment as it is apparently working, any reason will do to stop, but any reason won’t keep your straight, only one will, and that is you. In other words if in fact your job didn’t exist, then you still have your better thinking thus your conscience, will. Thus there would be no reason externally. Look at it another way, for example the same job situation goes exceedingly well and your promoted. As a result there’s a party and a reason to celebrate the new found success. Does this give permission to the self to say “I owe it to myself”. Follow what I’m saying?

Yes, my addiction can reenter my life at any time, that is why I am constantly on guard from preventing that from happening again.

Sure can, relapse is very much part of recovery. On the other hand fresh wounds become old wounds which become scar tissue, which become ancient history and a story told and well understood.

Being honest about my problem and the ruinous impact it has had on my life is one of the weapons in my arsenal, without honesty I am twice as likely to relapse. I am not full of self-hatred, I am just admitting to the truth as it is.

Honesty which relates to what I originally talked about in coming to terms with the past. Tis the only path.

Thank you for your kind words, I should have elaborated, but I will share some of my story as it relates to our faith, if you don’t mind.

Just chatting J.

In case anyone is wondering my “coming home” experience was extremely unusual. I am a former Agnostic who returned to Christianity while still in the midst of my alcoholism and for years I wondered what good Christianity was doing for me, because I seemed to have used alcohol in conjunction with my faith. For example, as a historian I like to watch historically themed films (historical fiction), especially Christian epics; for years I would drink and watch movies like Ben Hur in what became like a personal tradition, I was also a solitary drunk. Becoming sober scared me, because I thought I would discard Christianity because it became seemingly so ingrained with my faith experience, so mine is not your typical “born again” story, but are there really any? One time I said in the depths of despair that I would rather have Jesus as a drunk, than become a sober Atheist. The complete opposite has happened, not only have my grades, faith, work-ethic, familial relations, and many more things improve, in addition I would really like to become a secular Franciscan. Franciscan spirituality in part lifted me out of the darkness I was in, as did the writings of St. Therese of Lisieux who I am very devoted to now, because I prayed for her assistance in helping me quit and I haven’t drank since then. I just thought I would share that, for anyone reading this who is lost in the depths of addiction, there is help and a God who really loves you, keep trying and never give up you really are not alone.

God Bless my prayers are with you. Interesting chat.

 

[Holly3278]

If we did not have “morality laws” then it would be perfectly legal for a person to go out and commit mass murder. Do you want that? I think not.

 

[GaryTaylor]

If we did not have “morality laws” then it would be perfectly legal for a person to go out and commit mass murder. Do you want that? I think not.

:nope:

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Peter was just a man. Jesus never said such things. He had no issue with people having fun. That was something that was forced on people, by people.

Don’t forget, in the story, the deciples really didn’t get it most of the time. That is why one almost drowned when Jesus asked him to get out of the boat and belive. That is why Tomas doubted him, that is why Judas betrayed him.

None of the deciples were enlightned like Jesus was. be careful when reading thier thoughts…

Yes the apostles sound very stupid at times. They are almost like the Dr. Watson to Jesus’ Sherlock. That was probably more of a literary device than anything, though, a good way to get Jesus to explain a parable to the readers. It also didn’t hurt that it emphasized the difference in intelligence between the human apostles and the divine Jesus. Because, of course, in their humanity they would have been “stupid” when compared to God himself.

 

[JHow]

I never met a dope smoker who was any good at his trade, who wasn’t a disappointment to his family, and who didn’t spout off about how his behavior didn’t affect others, so therefore it’s moral behavior.

Here are some places I don’t want to see a dope smoker employed: train engineer, artilleryman, vascular surgeon… the list is long.

 

[JHow]

I forgot to add drywall contractor…biggest problem area in new construction. Requires a steady hand.

 

[duneman]

booze and pot okay in moderation

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[duneman]

I never met a dope smoker who was any good at his trade, who wasn’t a disappointment to his family, and who didn’t spout off about how his behavior didn’t affect others, so therefore it’s moral behavior.

Here are some places I don’t want to see a dope smoker employed: train engineer, artilleryman, vascular surgeon… the list is long.

ive met a few people like you mentioned who took a puff once in awhile… especially doctors… they said a little relieved stress like a martini and i am sure they dont do it right before they work

also … i know alot of people who dont drink or smoke pot who are lousy workers of their trade, who are still a dissapointment to their families and spout off how good they are when actually they are very mean cruel people, who think they are better than anyone else so they treat people horribly, and are very immoral in their behavior

 

[Mickey]

booze and pot okay in moderation

No such thing as pot in moderation. High is high.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I never met a dope smoker who was any good at his trade, who wasn’t a disappointment to his family, and who didn’t spout off about how his behavior didn’t affect others, so therefore it’s moral behavior.

Here are some places I don’t want to see a dope smoker employed: train engineer, artilleryman, vascular surgeon… the list is long.

You know J I’ll tell you quick story about todays weed. I took a class in 2010 for the needed credits. As it would happen two potheads happened to sit close. In the afternoon at the start of the class one day I noticed the usual annoying stoned behavior, and I moved on. Oh, about a few minutes later one of the young men just looked out of it, eyes couldn’t focus, confused and disoriented. I asked him quietly if he needed help. He said he needed to get out, he couldn’t breath and his mouth was completely dried. I walked him out to the water fountain and within a few minutes he was better. Anyway, I asked him if he did anything but the weed and needed to go to the hospital. His response was “I only took two hits of this seriously strong weed”.

I think its a foolish mistake to minimize marijuana and especially today. I fail to see where this is rational thinking. Temptation with a permissive passive response, which culminates in some perpetual state of foolishness. If you only knew how foolish you look.

 

[Mickey]

You know J I’ll tell you quick story about todays weed. I took a class in 2010 for the needed credits. As it would happen two potheads happened to sit close. In the afternoon at the start of the class one day I noticed the usual annoying stoned behavior, and I moved on. Oh, about a few minutes later one of the young men just looked out of it, eyes couldn’t focus, confused and disoriented. I asked him quietly if he needed help. He said he needed to get out, he couldn’t breath and his mouth was completely dried. I walked him out to the water fountain and within a few minutes he was better. Anyway, I asked him if he did anything but the weed and needed to go to the hospital. His response was “I only took two hits of this seriously strong weed”.

I think its a foolish mistake to minimize marijuana and especially today. I fail to see where this is rational thinking. Temptation with a permissive passive response, which culminates in some perpetual state of foolishness. If you only knew how foolish you look.

Most of today’s weed is “seriously strong” and only takes a hit or two to become completely stoned. That is why moderation is not an option.

 

[JHow]

In 2008 a metro link train engineer in Chatsworth CA blew past a signal and ran into a freight train killing 28 people ( or so). That engineer was distracted by texting (to teenage boys, but that’s another story). Imagine a guy high on dope ( yesterday or today’s) running a train load of chlorine through your town (every town uses chlorine). No thanks.

In the real world of factories, mines, railroads, construction, etc. there is no tolerance for substance abuse.

Maybe if you are a tenured professor in the art dept. teaching two sections a quarter of 3D Design, then maybe you can enjoy the fantasy that dope smoking doesn’t hurt anyone.

 

[Kush]

I am an instructor at a University here in Canada. I am one of the best in my department. I know a lot of other profs that smoke as well.

One of the most brilliant colleges I have ever worked with is doing his post doc in mathamatics. He is designing a computer based algorythm on how the heart works - where they will be designing medical devices to stop a heart attacks by mapping out the patients arythmia.

Perhaps you just hang around stupid people? In the academic world, most of us do.

By the way, would it ever both you to hear someone say “I have never met an itellegent christian? they belive in ghosts, gods and demons and I don’t want them working in my neighbourhood”. Case thats pretty much what you said about pot smokers without any clue…

I never met a dope smoker who was any good at his trade, who wasn’t a disappointment to his family, and who didn’t spout off about how his behavior didn’t affect others, so therefore it’s moral behavior.

Here are some places I don’t want to see a dope smoker employed: train engineer, artilleryman, vascular surgeon… the list is long.

 

[Kush]

Not true… and this is a fact

Alcohol is a drug far worse than pot. The john hopkins society has studied all drugs, and placed this one on the list as dangerous as coccaine, heroin, and crack. weed is a bit lower down the list (right around coffee and tea).

High = good
drinking = a ruined life.

No such thing as pot in moderation. High is high.

 

[Kush]

Have you ever met 2 Christians who acted foolish? Does that mean that therefore all christians are foolish? Have you ever seen what alcholol makes a person do and look like? So does that mean that everyone who drinks now fits into that catagory?

The strange thing is, there really shouldn’t be any of this arguing here. Pot is harmless. this is not my opinion, this i a fact. Alcholol is not, that is a fact too. I find it disturbing how people who do hard/heavy drugs such as alcholol have the nerve to put down pot. The danger is this. Young people listen to you… maybe even your kids, and here is what will happen.

1. Eventually, they will know what most of us know… you really have no idea of what your talking about. From there, you loose all credibility with them. They will try harder and more dangerous stuff, as they will have no real source of “knowlege”. they will have some guy with a cloudy perosnal opinion telling them lies. Cridibility is something you cannot lose.
2. If at all, anywhere deep deep down inside, you do know the truth. Would you rather your daugher date a pothead, or a alcohol drinker? seriously dude.

You know J I’ll tell you quick story about todays weed. I took a class in 2010 for the needed credits. As it would happen two potheads happened to sit close. In the afternoon at the start of the class one day I noticed the usual annoying stoned behavior, and I moved on. Oh, about a few minutes later one of the young men just looked out of it, eyes couldn’t focus, confused and disoriented. I asked him quietly if he needed help. He said he needed to get out, he couldn’t breath and his mouth was completely dried. I walked him out to the water fountain and within a few minutes he was better. Anyway, I asked him if he did anything but the weed and needed to go to the hospital. His response was “I only took two hits of this seriously strong weed”.

I think its a foolish mistake to minimize marijuana and especially today. I fail to see where this is rational thinking. Temptation with a permissive passive response, which culminates in some perpetual state of foolishness. If you only knew how foolish you look.

 

[Kush]

Are we not adults? If anyone takes any substance and drives a train or texts and drives… there really is a bigger problem with that person. There is nothing harmful about texting, smoking, or even having one beer… but you don’t drive afterwords.

Luckily most people are not that stupid… some are, sadly, its mostly the drinking crowd that kills people on our roads.

In 2008 a metro link train engineer in Chatsworth CA blew past a signal and ran into a freight train killing 28 people ( or so). That engineer was distracted by texting (to teenage boys, but that’s another story). Imagine a guy high on dope ( yesterday or today’s) running a train load of chlorine through your town (every town uses chlorine). No thanks.

In the real world of factories, mines, railroads, construction, etc. there is no tolerance for substance abuse.

Maybe if you are a tenured professor in the art dept. teaching two sections a quarter of 3D Design, then maybe you can enjoy the fantasy that dope smoking doesn’t hurt anyone.

 

[JHow]

I am an instructor at a University here in Canada. I am one of the best in my department. I know a lot of other profs that smoke as well.

One of the most brilliant colleges I have ever worked with is doing his post doc in mathamatics. He is designing a computer based algorythm on how the heart works - where they will be designing medical devices to stop a heart attacks by mapping out the patients arythmia.

Perhaps you just hang around stupid people? In the academic world, most of us do.

By the way, would it ever both you to hear someone say “I have never met an itellegent christian? they belive in ghosts, gods and demons and I don’t want them working in my neighbourhood”. Case thats pretty much what you said about pot smokers without any clue…

Since you are an educated man, I’ll speak more plainly:

I never met a dope-smoking tradesman who was any good at his trade. You can’t refute that statement as it is anedotal.

Dope-smoking can have severe negative consequences in the real world. The actuaries and insurers and lawyers know this. And yes, many companies, such as the examples I gave test employees for drug use and this can be grounds for dismissal.

Drug use by a child is almost always a dissapointment to the parents. Are your parents pleased with your habit?

Finally, I hang around with people who are certainly smart, even they do not all have advanced degrees. Smart enough to recognize immaturity, smart enough to earn a living off their own skill, smart enough to know they work best and safest without dope.

 

[Kush]

Hey Jhow,

Listen man, I have no issues and the highest of respect for trades people. This does become a pretty complex topic. I’m not from the US, and here, most companies do not test thier employees for drugs. that was something instlled by the regan administration when they started thier failed war on drugs (war on a plant - hahahah).

Now, wheather my parents are or are not proud of my life choises is really no business of mine. If they choose to be judgmental, that is their sin. that is their problem… not mine. I live an increidlbe life, an I find those that judge me the hardest, are the ones who are so unhappy with thier lives, yet they want me to change and follower thier paths…

One thing I have defended in the past, but I am wondering if I am wrong. People use to tell me Christians (as I am a follower of Christ) are “judgmental and conedmming”. I urge you and everyone reading this… evaluate your lives. try living a day or two without judgment… no matter what. Try living a day or two without condeming someone for being differnet than you.

In the end, we are all from the same source, condeming and judging me, or a pot smoker, or a gay perosn, is the same as judging god. why would you do that? We follow Jesus, but some of us use our faith as an excuse to be… well evil…

Since you are an educated man, I’ll speak more plainly:

I never met a dope-smoking tradesman who was any good at his trade. You can’t refute that statement as it is anedotal.

Dope-smoking can have severe negative consequences in the real world. The actuaries and insurers and lawyers know this. And yes, many companies, such as the examples I gave test employees for drug use and this can be grounds for dismissal.

Drug use by a child is almost always a dissapointment to the parents. Are your parents pleased with your habit?

Finally, I hang around with people who are certainly smart, even they do not all have advanced degrees. Smart enough to recognize immaturity, smart enough to earn a living off their own skill, smart enough to know they work best and safest without dope.

 

[J_the_Centrist]

Self honesty, Amen, leads to Salvation. Guilt I’m referring to the broader sense of the word, which is a transgression of moral standards, then coming to terms with it, you see the comparison with vice especially in the realm of Christianity. Its a struggle as you are aware for example with confession. Often with recovering addicts they are the last to forgive themselves and in reflection of the life they lived. This is true in the struggle with any vice as the internal conflict continues long after your forgiven. Anyway you have an idea on my thinking. No harm intended, I’m not questioning your integrity.

I clearly understand you, and am familiar with these neighborhoods as I worked at Daytop for years running the second shift, grew up in the 60’s as a young adult. I have the T-Shirt. Relating to addicts is an issue which doesn’t accompany me. Though I see here without insight to war stories my experience is negated? This is “very” common with addicts. Its not the messenger, its the message, though I admit the messenger gives it more weight. Now going into detail shouldn’t be taken as I don’t know, very much on the contrary…I do. I know what the sewer smells like.

I’d like to come back to this in detail, this is where my thinking resides with recovery, More important I want you to think about everything you honestly stated here and above. Now look at the difference in thinking in the next quote.

Same internal conflict I’m talking about above J.

Basing your recovery on your job may be well and fine for the moment as it is apparently working, any reason will do to stop, but any reason won’t keep your straight, only one will, and that is you. In other words if in fact your job didn’t exist, then you still have your better thinking thus your conscience, will. Thus there would be no reason externally. Look at it another way, for example the same job situation goes exceedingly well and your promoted. As a result there’s a party and a reason to celebrate the new found success. Does this give permission to the self to say “I owe it to myself”. Follow what I’m saying?

Sure can, relapse is very much part of recovery. On the other hand fresh wounds become old wounds which become scar tissue, which become ancient history and a story told and well understood.

Honesty which relates to what I originally talked about in coming to terms with the past. Tis the only path.

Just chatting J.

God Bless my prayers are with you. Interesting chat.

Marijuana is a controversial issue, though as I previously suggested it is not the drug it has been envisioned as being by conservatives for decades. I quit due to employment concerns and despite the fact that I cannot do it and if I could I wouldn’t allow it to control my life, who am I do deny others the right to do it? Alcohol ruined my life, not marijuana, which may have only impeded my success. Yes, marijuana can slow you down, but doing it will not make you homeless, cause you to lose your family, alter your work performance (I have friends with great jobs to verify this), turn you into a “junkie” if you do it exclusively, etc. No, I absolutely would NOT encourage anyone, especially minors, to “get high”, though if people like to do it and they enjoy it I understand completely and restricting the use of marijuana, which we both know is far less destructive than alcohol is ridiculous. I am not constantly thinking about smoking marijuana, after two years I am well beyond any physical or mental attractions, which would lead me to go back and risk losing my job. Like smoking (which I gave up for Lent and never intend to do again, EVER), if I didn’t have asthma I would probably delay my quitting, but I knew it had to be done and despite the fact that I personally detest it now, I understand why other’s enjoy it and I certainly wouldn’t attempt for the illegality of it.

I do understand about saying “I owe it to myself” very well, this struck me like a bolt of lightning when I read that. I have “celebrated” for far less important occasions than a job promotion, try passing a test, getting a good review at work (which can be very common, because my boss believes in providing feedback when necessary), completing a term paper, and on and on. An addict, alcoholic or whatever will find any excuse to “celebrate”, even for the most mundane reasons, just as I did! If I had a rough week, out comes the bottles of brandy and vodka and Quo Vadis (1953 or the more recent Polish version from 2001) goes into the DVD player.

You said you you worked at Daytop, is that the one in Manhattan? Are there others? It is near the Church of St. Francis of Assisi on 31st street where I am thinking of offering my services as a Secular Franciscan, did you ever attend services there? Thomas Merton, Dorothy Day and many other famous Catholics have. I would really love to make that church a huge part of my life, the famous breadlines for the homeless, which they have been doing since the Great Depression, as well as their theologically liberal (I am not politically liberal) approach draws me to them. I have a huge hunger to GIVE, rather than TAKE, as I have done for so long and if I could GIVE I would love to do it there. Peace be with you, brother.