Drinking alcolhol

[robertaf]

Greetings Church

Here is the time and place grape juice was first pasteurized. It is from the Welches grapejuice webpage. I had read that there was a Protestant Bishop in the Welch family who instigated the process.
“The story of Welch’s dates back to 1869, when physician and dentist Dr. Thomas Bramwell Welch developed a method for pasteurizing grape juice in his home in Vineland, N.J. His goal was to produce an alcohol-free wine to be used at communion in his local church”

Before this, there was no way to prevent grapejuice from fermenting.
If you read about Pentecost folks thought the Apostles were drunk.

However scripture says it is good to get drunk in the Holy Spirit!

 

[Ham1]

SPOKENWORD:

Why open the door for satan to come in? As for me I,ll get drunk in the Holy Spirit. Best high you will get with no hangover.

No offense, but if you are being serious, I would not want to party with you.

Besides, if alcohol is so bad then why did God invent it?

 

[Melchior]

SPOKENWORD:

Why open the door for satan to come in? As for me I,ll get drunk in the Holy Spirit. Best high you will get with no hangover.

Eating can leave room for satan if you let it. Jesus would not have commanded us to drink wine (Holy Communion) if he thought we couldn’t handle it.

The Holy Spirit is a person, God in fact. He is not a drink or a drug. Trust me I used to be a Pentacostal. So I know what you mean and it is not biblical.

Mel

 

[J_Chrysostomos]

While in the church background I was raised in alcohol is forbidden (Don’t drink, smoke, chew, or hang around with girls that do!), my current adoptive church (Reformed Presbyterian) has basically the same views as Catholicism. I enjoy a beer, a glass of wine, or a mixed drink on occasion. (When I go crazy I might have a glass of rum or brandy! Horrors!) I’ve been inebriated once before and have since repented and I never want to do that again.

I have noticed that studying the history of the church that no major Christian body banned alcohol until the 19th century. I have also noticed that many preachers who denounce alcohol won’t denounce… say… gluttony. But anyway…

You’re not going to tell me that they served grape juice at a wedding, or that wine was so watered down that the people couldn’t get drunk off of it. This is merely a result of “what the Bible should say” rather than “what the Bible says”. In fact, here’s what the good Book says about using a tithe (OT):

from Deuteronomy 14…
Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice.

Looks like God was telling people to drink if they like. I won’t argue with Him.

 

[Peace-bwu]

SPOKENWORD:

Why open the door for satan to come in? As for me I,ll get drunk in the Holy Spirit. Best high you will get with no hangover.

I respect that, but it is not a sin to drink responsibly either. We all have to know ourselves well enough be aware of what we need to be spiritually healthy and “right” with the lord. I feel bad for alcoholics, for whom alcohol consumption is another story.

 

[retina_md]

I’m convinced that there are clear medical benefits to the use of moderate alcohol regularly. Moderation is the key. I cannot imagine the the first public miracle that Jesus performed would be changing water into wine if alcohol consumption were sinful. Cheers!

 

[Peace-bwu]

J_Chrysostomos:

While in the church background I was raised in alcohol is forbidden (Don’t drink, smoke, chew, or hang around with girls that do!), my current adoptive church (Reformed Presbyterian) has basically the same views as Catholicism. I enjoy a beer, a glass of wine, or a mixed drink on occasion. (When I go crazy I might have a glass of rum or brandy! Horrors!) I’ve been inebriated once before and have since repented and I never want to do that again.

I have noticed that studying the history of the church that no major Christian body banned alcohol until the 19th century. I have also noticed that many preachers who denounce alcohol won’t denounce… say… gluttony. But anyway…

You’re not going to tell me that they served grape juice at a wedding, or that wine was so watered down that the people couldn’t get drunk off of it. This is merely a result of “what the Bible should say” rather than “what the Bible says”. In fact, here’s what the good Book says about using a tithe (OT):

from Deuteronomy 14…
Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice.

Looks like God was telling people to drink if they like. I won’t argue with Him.

Wow, good post!
Has anyone been to a “dry” wedding reception? They are extremely boring! ( the three I attended were, anyway. Not quite the wedding receptions my family always has at the Knights of Columbus Hall, now that’s a party!)

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Melchior:

Eating can leave room for satan if you let it. Jesus would not have commanded us to drink wine (Holy Communion) if he thought we couldn’t handle it.

The Holy Spirit is a person, God in fact. He is not a drink or a drug. Trust me I used to be a Pentacostal. So I know what you mean and it is not biblical.

Mel

Tell that to AA Members. Any sin will leave room for satan to enter in.

 

[Sherlock]

Just had to contribute this little gem from one of my favorite writers:

Wherever the Catholic sun doth shine,
There’s always laughter and good red wine.
At least I’ve always found it so.
Benedicamus Domino!

Hilaire Belloc

 

[bengal_fan]

Peace-bwu:

Wow, good post!
Has anyone been to a “dry” wedding reception? They are extremely boring! ( the three I attended were, anyway. Not quite the wedding receptions my family always has at the Knights of Columbus Hall, now that’s a party!)

i hope everyone has read my earlier posts and knows where i’m coming from so i don’t have to explain it here.

i just needed to clarify one thing. my wedding reception was dry but not because i am against alcohol. my father is an alcoholic and while i am not (no i’m not in denial, i don’t drink very often and i rarely if ever get drunk) i didn’t want to put that temptation in front of him. we toasted with champagne for everyone but that was it. to avoid the situation even more we had an afternoon reception. it was great being with friends and family and dancing and storytelling (sounds like the public library on tuesday doesn’t it?) and it wasn’t that bad. i do know that afterwards, many went to some of the local bars to celebrate for us. my new wife and i also went out with my brother after the reception (since it was only 6:30pm) to a bar for a while and saw some folks from our reception there. we had a great time and we returned to our room to do what married people do around 10:00. so while a “dry” wedding isn’t as big a party it can be fun and there are reasons for it from time to time.

 

[drforjc]

I can’t resist slinging one more bible verse, from Sirach 31:

27] Wine is like life to men,
if you drink it in moderation.
What is life to a man who is without wine?
It has been created to make men glad.

 

[darcee]

I hope with all this brotherly love and approbation going on you won’t mind a lady sitting down to share a glass or two. Because I have to put my two cents in.

How on earth would people…before modern refrigeration keep grape juice from becoming wine? They would only have had “the fruit of the wine” if it was just grape juice a couple weeks out of the years (in the fall) and we know they had wine in the spring for Passover?

The whole wine is really grape juice thing seems one of those “willful ignorance” type of things… BTW a glass of red goes nicely with pizza.
:tiphat:

-D

 

[DrCat]

Fortiterinre:

The wine at Cana might not have been strong, but we have no reason to believe it was grape juice and not true wine.

And we DO have reason for believing it was NOT grape juice. It wasn’t until the late 19th or early 20th century that Welch developed the method for storing grape juice without fermenting it first. Fermentation was used as a method for storing grape (or other fruit) juice for periods of time.

John

 

[Bonvivant]

In our parish, and I assume our diocese, they have a program for young adults called, I think, “theology on tap.” Sorry to be so vague but I havn’t paid much attention to it because I’m not interested in it. But anyway, they all meet at a bar somewhere, have a few drinks, and discuss God. Now that I think of it, it might be kind of fun. This may be worth researching.

And it wouldn’t be summer in Wisconsin without the parish picnic. A couple of brats and a pitcher of beer under the big top and it just doesn’t get any better than that. Heck, it was a factor in my conversion.

Bill

 

[Melissa]

Urgh–cannot drink red wine at all, as it is a migraine trigger for me. However, a nice glass of Chardonnay with dinner is very welcome, preferably one which comes from the local region (I live about 20 miles from the leading edge of NYS’s wine country, though the best lake is a little further away).

One should stop drinking before becoming tipsy.

 

[J_Chrysostomos]

Bonvivant:

In our parish, and I assume our diocese, they have a program for young adults called, I think, “theology on tap.” Sorry to be so vague but I havn’t paid much attention to it because I’m not interested in it. But anyway, they all meet at a bar somewhere, have a few drinks, and discuss God. Now that I think of it, it might be kind of fun. This may be worth researching. Bill

Apparently JRR Tolkein and CS Lewis used to discuss theology at the local pub. Until the temperance movement came around, it was commonplace for theologians to discuss things over a beer or wine or the like. I heard one theologian say that he was at lunch with some other pastors one time. When the waiter asked if they wanted to see a wine list, one of his friends said “We’re Christians, we don’t drink.” He almost responded “I’ll have a scotch on the rocks” and said he should have since that’s what the Apostle Paul would have done.

 

[Peace-bwu]

Bonvivant:

In our parish, and I assume our diocese, they have a program for young adults called, I think, “theology on tap.” Sorry to be so vague but I havn’t paid much attention to it because I’m not interested in it. But anyway, they all meet at a bar somewhere, have a few drinks, and discuss God. Now that I think of it, it might be kind of fun. This may be worth researching.
Bill

Hey, they have theology on tap here in Delaware too. I keep meaning to go but I can never find a babysitter on Wed night!

 

[Peace-bwu]

bengal_fan:

i hope everyone has read my earlier posts and knows where i’m coming from so i don’t have to explain it here.

i just needed to clarify one thing. my wedding reception was dry but not because i am against alcohol. my father is an alcoholic and while i am not (no i’m not in denial, i don’t drink very often and i rarely if ever get drunk) i didn’t want to put that temptation in front of him. we toasted with champagne for everyone but that was it. to avoid the situation even more we had an afternoon reception. it was great being with friends and family and dancing and storytelling (sounds like the public library on tuesday doesn’t it?) and it wasn’t that bad. i do know that afterwards, many went to some of the local bars to celebrate for us. my new wife and i also went out with my brother after the reception (since it was only 6:30pm) to a bar for a while and saw some folks from our reception there. we had a great time and we returned to our room to do what married people do around 10:00. so while a “dry” wedding isn’t as big a party it can be fun and there are reasons for it from time to time.

Sorry I didn’t know I would never intend to offend your wedding! One of the dry weddings I attended was due to the groom’s father being an alcoholic, and my wedding reception was half dry because my tee- totaler, anti -alcohol, anti-Catholic, mother- in -law would not attend our wedding if alcohol was served at the reception, so we warned her at the reception that we were breaking out the kegs after the boquet was thrown… kind of a compromise! I guess that is why I’m so defensive about this issue because we always suffer rude comments about communion wine from her. Sorry!

Oh, did I mention my ornery cousins spiked the punch and she drank some? :bigyikes: That was not a pretty sight, she was pretty ticked. I actually felt kinda bad about that!

PS. Who DEY !?? I am origionally from Bengal country

 

[bengal_fan]

Peace-bwu:

Sorry I didn’t know I would never intend to offend your wedding! One of the dry weddings I attended was due to the groom’s father being an alcoholic, and my wedding reception was half dry because my tee- totaler, anti -alcohol, anti-Catholic, mother- in -law would not attend our wedding if alcohol was served at the reception, so we warned her at the reception that we were breaking out the kegs after the boquet was thrown… kind of a compromise! I guess that is why I’m so defensive about this issue because we always suffer rude comments about communion wine from her. Sorry!

Oh, did I mention my ornery cousins spiked the punch and she drank some? :bigyikes: That was not a pretty sight, she was pretty ticked. I actually felt kinda bad about that!

PS. Who DEY !?? I am origionally from Bengal country

no worries, you didn’t offend me . i just wanted to make the point that there is a time for everything, even a time to drink and a time to refrain. the bengals will win the conference this year! i live near pittsburgh now and that’s a sin to say here but who cares, they don’t care about us anyway they hate the browns and we are an afterthought. not after last year though

 

[nucatholic]

What does everyone think if an under 21 but over 18 young adult has a few beers in the presence and approval of older adults? I am 19 and have been to a few parties with either Lutherans (these guys drink more than we do!) and Catholics and no one thought it was a problem if I had a few cold ones. It was actually really enjoyable to just have a few and get to know some of my elders in the faith. I was then torn apart by a few Evangelicals who said that its against the law so it is wrong. I kind of see their point because we must obey the law of the land. Any thoughts?