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thunderboom
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awesome!
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jenwha
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I drink one to two times per week deliberately to get a buzz. I don’t get drunk, and I don’t drive, and I don’t do other stupid things, but a buzz in the evenings is what I do. I guess I will have to face God for it because I can’t find anything defintively about whether it is a mortal sin or not.
I do not for any reason understand why this seems to be more of a grey area and smoking is not. I used to smoke cigarettes too and gave it up 8 months ago. Smoking to me seems way way more sinful than the drink on occasion, so i gave it up.
People who drink moderately generally do not shorten their life by 10 years like smokers do. I don’t get it.
I do not for any reason understand why this seems to be more of a grey area and smoking is not. I used to smoke cigarettes too and gave it up 8 months ago. Smoking to me seems way way more sinful than the drink on occasion, so i gave it up.
People who drink moderately generally do not shorten their life by 10 years like smokers do. I don’t get it.
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CyberAngel
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It truly is…so little Christians here
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Annabelle_Marie
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Corki
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There is nothing un-Christian about complementing someone for posting a well worded response. Or are you saying you have to be a non-drinker to be Christian? That would truly rate aIt truly is…so little Christians here
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andrewstx
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actually drinking moderately does not defile the body.
In the south where many places are dry, many people defile there bodies with a constant diet of fried food and pork, bad for your heart.
In Utah where they pass tap water for holy communion. people are big as houses from ice cream and sweets.
In the south where many places are dry, many people defile there bodies with a constant diet of fried food and pork, bad for your heart.
In Utah where they pass tap water for holy communion. people are big as houses from ice cream and sweets.
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migueltojose
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It truly is…so little Christians here
Da utter guy made a good point… what do you mean? Are you defining Christianity? …if so please explain… if you are saying something about drinking… please explain. I would elaborate but… I’ve had a few too many…
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BillTheSlink
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And where does it say drinking and smoking defiles the body? Jesus drank. Are you saying he defiled himself? As a matter of fact I will tell you that from what we know of history the institution of the Eucharist would have been the seventh goblet of wine consumed, because six goblets are consumed during the regular Passover meal and scripture says it was instituted after the meal was ended. Please don’t come off with that old Baptist argument either that, “It was grape juice.” Sorry no it wasn’t. Because there was no refrigeration in those days any grape juice would naturally begin fermenting and turn to wine as soon as it was squeezed because there is yeast naturally present on grape skins. You needn’t add any for nature to do it’s thing. We only add yeast to grape juice today to get faster fermentation for commercial reasons (you make more money buy producing it quicker) and to have more repeatable results as you never know what wild strain of yeast is on your grapes and each strain has its own taste.
As far as smoking several Catholic Saints smoked. The founder of Opus Dei, St. Josemaria Escriva being one of them. He went so far as to order the first members to take it up so they didn’t appear strange since nearly everyone smoked at the time. Also, considering most of us who smoke pick up the habit around 13 when we have no real understanding of the harm it CAN cause and get addicted to it, we have no free will in the matter (at least for many of us) by the time we’re old enough to have good sense sometime as you get close to 30. I know I personally have tried and tried to quit only to fail time and time again. It used to be that tobacco was considered the most addictive drug out there, now it is second to smoked and injected crystal meth.
Lastly why are you assuming Jesus is talking about anything you put into the body that defiles it. You can read clearly in Matthew he says nothing that goes into a man defiles the body. By chance do you speak Greek or have at least tried to do a word study on in exactly what sense is Jesus is talking defiling the body here? Does the Greek word used have a sexual connotation? Perhaps something harking back to the passage in Matthew?
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CyberAngel
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CatholicBoy1957
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By drinking virtuously.
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Baelor
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No, it does not – ever – in a way that condemns the one drinker who has no desire to trigger behavior. We are called to be in control of our own actions. If one, out of courtesy, would like to refrain from imbibing for the sake of a known alcoholic, he is welcome to do so. If someone expresses a preference not to drink because of past addiction or control issues, then that may be taken into consideration. But the onus is on the person affected to control himself and to be in positions in which he is not tempted. He does not have the right to dictate the behavior of others due to his weakness.
For the record, I do not drink by choice.
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CatholicBoy1957
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New International Version (©1984)
Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.
I think I read all of the posts in this thread, so if someone already posted this verse, I apologize for missing it. A fundamentalist I knew well many years ago often used this verse for the defense of not drinking.
Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.
I think I read all of the posts in this thread, so if someone already posted this verse, I apologize for missing it. A fundamentalist I knew well many years ago often used this verse for the defense of not drinking.
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Bill_Martin
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That verse assumes that the action of eating meat, or in this case drinking alcohol, is the cause of the other’s sin. This isn’t always the case. If I drink tonight in my own home, it will not cause anyone else to sin because nobody else knows about it. If I drink with others and nobody gets drunk or does anything wrong, likewise, nobody has been caused to sin.
If I am with a friend whom I know is a recovering alcoholic and I start drinking in front of him, and he gets drunk and falls back into alcoholism, then I have caused him to sin. But the sin there is not drinking; it is causing another to fall. The act of drinking was only the mechanism by which I did it.
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CaseyDeAnn
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This was by far my favorite comment on the thread, and I read them all.First of all I am just going to tell you my experience and tell you what my pastor said.
I am an absolute beer connoisseur. I am a beer snob the way some people are wine snobs. I am also a home brewer and love to make my own. I generally only buy good to very good beer. Typical American beer such as Budweiser, Miller, Bush, and Coors is pretty much considered trash beer throughout the world because of lack of taste and the fact the vast majority of fermentable sugars don’t even come from traditional beer ingredients. They come from flaked corn and rice syrup. That being said they are a pain to brew because there is so little flavor that any error in the fermentation will show up off flavors because there is no dominate flavor to hide in. It is only through marketing that these beers came to capture the beer market. Anyway I have digressed.
As I said I love beer. Although I am disabled now and haven’t been able to make a batch in a long time I always brewed five gallon batches, which is the standard, and to be honest gave more away to friends and family and entered a lot into contests than I kept. I matched my beer to the seasons and all that. For instance I would brew an Irish Ale In Feb. so it would be ready for Saint Patrick’s day, Abby Ales such as Trappest styles (A group of Catholic Monks in Belgium who make beer) to drink for nourishment during Lent fasts, which I do fast more than mandated, which alcohol makes you want food more so it’s like double penance, Kolsh style Ale and Munich Helles lager for Summer, and Brown Ales, Spiced Christmas Ales, and Barley Wine for Fall and Winter and I always had other things around like hard cider or recipes and styles I wanted to try. On average I drank one a day and maybe two to three times a week I would have two bottles.
Every now and again though, sometimes after I was really tense, hot after mowing the lawn, or it was a chilly winter night I would drink until I would get the warm and fuzzes. That nice warm feeling in your belly and maybe you laughed a little louder and jokes that weren’t all that funny, and maybe talked a bit too loudly and had warm feeling for everybody. I decided to ask my pastor about this.
I went into his office one day because I had some questions about the faith being a new convert and asked him what the bible and church considered being drunk. He asked me what I meant. I said, “Well, I think everyone will agree having a beer isn’t being drunk but certainly hugging the Great White Porcelain Thrown and begging God to put you out of your misery is drunk.” I said, “when exactly is drunk?” His answer was, “I drank too much.” I looked at him puzzled. He said, “Bill if you’re looking for an answer like that where is Christian freedom?” I still didn’t get it. He continued, "You’re a smart adult who has several years’ experience with drinking and you’re only going to get more as you get older. “It is questions like this you have to decide for yourself and if by accident you know you past that point know that isn’t a mortal sin because in order for it to be mortal sin you have to have intended to get drunk just like to commit any mortal sin you have to will it to happen and give your full consent”
So to put it to you this way I don’t think you can set any set number on what is reasonable or even drunk. What you may feel is too much for you may not be too much for a brother or sister. For instance if I really wanted to get jolly but not drunk and enjoy some good beer and a lot of it, I would choose a Kolsch style or Munich Helles which is pretty much identical in alcohol content to Budweiser and I could easly drink five to six from say eight o’clock at night to 12:30AM. At that point me and my buddies would be telling jokes, slapping each other on the back, maybe talking a bit too loud and I certainly wouldn’t drive a car, but I certainly haven’t lost control of my ability to choose right from wrong or give into temptations I wouldn’t normally fall for so I don’t think I would be sinning. In the same token two bottles of Barley Wine, which are about 17% alcohol by volume, as I am curled up on the couch in my PJs and bathrobe on a very chilly winter night would be it. Keep in mind though I am over six foot tall and over 300 lbs.
I hope you have read to this part because I want to tell you how alcohol led to my conversion to Catholicism. I became a Christian in 2001 and how it came about was rather odd. I joined the Freemasons when I was about 23 and although I had been raised Baptist I was never a believer in the Christian God, or at least as I know him now, and I lied about this to get in as Masons do not allow atheists to join. Well I met so many Christian men there, many of whom were Catholic and were keeping their membership secret, I saw what a dose of “morality” did to make these men have happy lives that I decided to start going to church and adopt the teachings on morality and also be entertained perhaps. Since I am mostly German, and was at the time a little too proud of that, I started attending the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. Now the gospel got to me and I became a believer, but if you know anything about the LCMS you know they have kept all the teachings of Luther which Luther’s motto was “Sin boldly but let your grace be stronger.” In other words do exactly what Paul said not to do and continue on in sin so grace can abound even more. Anyway, I was very anti-Catholic from my upbringing and reading all the early Lutheran polemics against the church that I though Catholics believe you worked your way to heaven. To me it was the whore of Babylon from Revelation and the Anti-Christ would be a pope. One night I was sitting reading scripture and I had been sipping a couple of peppermint schnapps on the rocks and this great feeling for love of God came over me. I immediately hit my knees and started telling him how much I loved him and wanted to serve him and do all he wanted me to do. Then God touched my heart. Here I had been actively indulging in pornography and thought everything was alright because I believed “The Gospel”. Lutherans have this weird view that “The Law” and “The Gospel” are two different things and there only relationship is that The Law is to make you feel guilty but The Gospel, which to them is just that Jesus died for your sins to take away your punishment, then rushes in to rescue you from despair. To them believing The Gospel is that you have been forgiven by Grace to do good works is a mingling of Law and Gospel and the two must always be separate as The Law has no effect on the Christian. Anyway, after pouring my heart out to God and then him telling me I had to change my life things changed. Within two months the Lutheran Church I was going to had been shut down and since I had been watching Mother Angelica on EWTN I had come to realize Catholics didn’t believe what I thought they did at all. For instance I thought Mary was the center of Catholic life and doctrine, not Jesus. Of course our Lady is our friend and Mother and I have devotion to her, but it wasn’t what I expected at all. In short if it wasn’t for Freemasons and alcohol I would still be addicted to pornography and on my way to hell. For the life of me I can understand what fundamentalist have against alcohol and truthfully, although I obey the Church’s teaching and resigned, I don’t understand why she still forbids Masonic membership. Now I know in the past Masons did some shady things and there may have even been some occultism to it, but I attest that there certainly isn’t now and if the vast majority of the men I went to lodge with even knew about Freemasonry’s past they would leave and for another club, but that was long, long ago. I don’t understand why we can’t be members now and I hope they change it. I really miss my lodge brothers and most are old and are dying off and I will likely never see them again this side of heaven.
PS: Sorry for the long post. I just found out I more than likely have cancer and to be honest I haven’t slept for a while and am a little bit foggy in the head and truthfully wanted to talk and get my mind of it and I just sort of rambled on, and no I haven’t drank a drop either.
Recommend me quality beer! My family only drinks the American trash, but I can tell we’re missing out. It’s only that I’m too young, 19, to buy it myself (I occasionally drink with the dad and uncle…we’re German also). Interesting (name removed by moderator)ut about masonry. I feel motivated to do research on it.
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CyberAngel
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You totally misunderstood my point
I admit that I di not make it easy because I wanted you to pray for it and ask God about it
but think it like this:
I give up my “right” to enjoy a glass of wine because of my Love towards my weak Brother
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Annabelle_Marie
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You assume that some of us have not prayed or asked God about it… Sorry to tell you that I got a different answer than you.
I have some alcoholic relatives…and I’ve given up my “right” to drink…and I’ve enjoyed a glass of wine around them. You know what…it makes no difference in how they drink. And again…that is one of the things they tell you in Al-anon. We are not the end all and be all of these people…we are not the reason they drink…and we will not be the reason they stop. What we can do is pray for them.
To me your assumption that I am not a good Christian because of my stance on it is downright hurtful.
What would be wrong is if I know someone has a problem with it and I encourage them to have a drink…saying…“ah come on…one won’t hurt you…” That is wrong.
Your reasoning is just that…yours…it doesn’t make you more of a Christian and the rest of us any less because we don’t agree with you.
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Baelor
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I did. God has spoken through the Bible and the Church. It is obvious that alcohol consumption is permissible.
If you disagree, then how do you explain Jesus’ turning water into wine? Are you not saying that he was leading people into the occasion of sin or facilitating sinful behavior? How often did Jesus do that?
- Because this is your argument, then I assume that you are perfectly fine with alcohol consumption in theory, for example a non-alcoholic couple enjoying a glass of wine in the privacy of their home, or, more innocuous indeed, someone enjoying alcohol responsibly alone.
- That is certainly your right, but I also have the moral right not to give up alcohol simply because there may be someone in the vicinity who has an alcohol problem, so I fail to see how this line of reasoning is compelling on any level.
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AHapka
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I’ll agree for the most part with one exception:
Let’s say you were invited to your friends house, and he is a recovering alcoholic. If you bring a beer with and then crack it open in his living room, then I think it’s a problem.
But only because you are going into his house, and in his own home he should then be able to say no drinking.
Obviously, out in public or in your house it’s a different story and I agree with you.
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CyberAngel
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Permissible, yes. Typically at dinner.
At least French people overdo it because of the liver diseases
The miracle that Jesus performed is an image (archetype?)
of the Heavenly wedding when we are exceedingly happy.
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