Due to so much confusion in the Catholic Church, my friends have joined the SSPX group

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Still, this promise was made by Christ. He didn’t make it to any other person or group of people. Those who separate themselves from communion with the Holy See may find themselves separated from God.
 
commenter said:
If SSPX acknowledged they do have their own laity, they would be labelled in schism
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This is NOT the definition of schism. 😉

Schism is the (total?) denial of the Pope’s authority. Just to clarify, Schism is ALSO NOT saying “I believe the Pope is wrong on this or that point.”
 
TheMortenBay said:
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commenter:
If SSPX acknowledged they do have their own laity, they would be labelled in schism
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This is NOT the definition of schism. 😉

Schism is the (total?) denial of the Pope’s authority. Just to clarify, Schism is ALSO NOT saying “I believe the Pope is wrong on this or that point.”
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If they acknowledged having their
own Laity, if they renamed the chapels they have established as “parishes”, then more people would rightly or wrongly label them in schism.
 
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Paulfdesouza said:
Due to so much confusion in the Catholic Church, my friends have joined the SSPX group.
(Society of Saint Pius X)
Could they be deemed as Non Catholics who are not in communion with the Catholic church or are they still Catholics, who are still following the Traditional Latin Rite of the Mass and thus not in disobedience to the mother church.
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Well… the fact they are leaving full communion with the Church to join a group that rejects Church authority is confusing… I’m sure they mean well, but tough to support stepping out of full communion with the Church?
 
HomeschoolDad said:
Being “faithful to the magisterium” also means adhering to Humanae vitae , Pope Benedict’s encyclical Dominus Jesus (which reaffirmed the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus ), the whole ball of wax.
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Being faithful to the magisterium means adhering to Amoris Laetitia and Laudatio Si. Are they not part of the ball of wax?

I was not addressing particular issues so much as respect for Papal teaching, something that seems painfully lacking these days on the right. NCReporter never approached the venom you see all the time from the right and even in “centrist” catholic media. The world is different today, especially because of social media, but it atill seems too extreme to me.

(Dominus Iesus was from the CDF when JP2 was Pope and Benedict was in charge of the CDF. To say it reaffirmed EENS oversimplifies what it taught.)
 
Many church leaders have gone off the rails and those laity that are traditionalists need to remind leaders of their responsibility to teach without errors. I have every right to question the “Holy see” except those “from the chair”. This authoritarian in your face, you better kneel down to the pope francis’s interpretations of catholic teaching, is getting old. The very same type of people that said "as long as you have a clearly formed conscience when JPII or Benedict were the popes, you’re good. are the same ones that now keep repeating " “I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it” "as if any decent against the liberal theology is unacceptable.

When Francis became pope I became worried. HIm being a Jesuit. We are dangerously close to a split and if it happens Francis is at the center of it. When the Pope insult priest that he sees as too traditional. Francis has no trouble with judging, criticizing, insulting, speaking down to, and just ignoring those who don’t shout from the roof tops Francis’s opinions.

If a split happens us traditionalists have a Pope already. Benedick seems to be doing just fine. He can speak on our behalf and when he passes he can have selected cardinals that can appoint a co-pope.
 
phil3 said:
If a split happens us traditionalists have a Pope already. Benedick seems to be doing just fine. He can speak on our behalf and when he passes he can have selected cardinals that can appoint a co-pope.
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Or maybe, you could try and pray for the current Pope, or if you think he’s truly irredeemable, pray for a better pope next time around. That’s what’s such nonsense about benevacantism. The man is, what, 91 years old? Even if he lives another 10(!) years, he’s hardly a solution for the problems in the Church. If he himself claimed to be Pope and took back the authority, it would be something completely different, but he hasn’t and he won’t. So what’s the point?
 
Maybe. But the split won’t be between Popes Francis and Benedict.
 
Mass does get said in peoples apartments on occasion as happens when a priest goes to countries where the government is definitely not pro Christian. These groups get Mass and the sacraments very irregularly and infrequently. Mass Is offered in peoples houses if the congregation is tiny, e.g in a garage which has been set up for as such, I know of a funeral chapel that is used for Mass where the congregation is very small. I don’t know if Mass was said under a tree or in a native hut in Oceania before the tribal group and priest built a chapel…it does happen. These things happen with the SPPX…the spirit of the missionary is still about.
 
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No, but Benedict was a Pope that understood and in many way encouraged traditionalist masses and those values. Pope Francis has made it clear there is no place for such in todays church.
 
Oh, so you’re saying you’d rather have Benedict be Pope than Francis? Well, I’d personally rather have St. Pius X, but that isn’t likely going to happen either. 😉
 
I would rather have a Pope that doesn’t throw insult around. I would rather have a Pope that isnt so judgmental. I would rather have a Pope that doesn’t show his contempt for those he disagrees with. I would rather have Pope that doesn’t punish those who disagree with him. I would rather have a Pope that will clarify his confusing statements when asked. I could go on and on and on.
 
I can’t blame you for going the SSPX route. I’ve gone one step further and am nearly sedevacantist myself. SSPX is not sedevacantist at all.
 
phil3 said:
I have every right to question the “Holy see” except those “from the chair”. This authoritarian in your face, you better kneel down to the pope francis’s interpretations of catholic teaching, is getting old.
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What the Church teaches is:
Bishops, teaching in communion with the Roman Pontiff, are to be respected by all as witnesses to divine and Catholic truth. In matters of faith and morals, the bishops speak in the name of Christ and the faithful are to accept their teaching and adhere to it with a religious assent. This religious submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the authentic magisterium of the Roman Pontiff, even when he is not speaking ex cathedra; that is, it must be shown in such a way that his supreme magisterium is acknowledged with reverence, the judgments made by him are sincerely adhered to, according to his manifest mind and will.
Lumen Gentium 25
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You cannot limit respect just to teachings “from the chair.” If you think someone is forcing you to believe something, you misunderstand. Respect and adherence are called for, agreement is another matter.
 
Dovekin said:
You cannot limit respect just to teachings “from the chair.” If you think someone is forcing you to believe something, you misunderstand. Respect and adherence are called for, agreement is another matter.
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I can respectfully disagree but to adhere to something that I believe is sinful I will not. I seldom go to mass because of modernism in the church. I can’t remember the last time I went to communion, maybe 7 years ago. I don’t miss it and I don’t think I am condemning my soul to hell. I think God is crying over what progressives have done to the church. After this latest synod he is going to be really upset with the leaders. In the past 60 years, the church leaders have a track record of doing much more wrong than right.

Again, those only too willing to excuse and justify Francis new understanding of catholic teaching were only too willing to “have a clearly formed conscience” to justify ignoring JPII and benedick.
 
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