Duggar Interview

[Convert_in_99]

What is amazing to me is we’ve been yapping for 16 pages about this terrible tragedy that was really none of our personal beeswax in the first place. I’m thinking we should call a truce and let the family recover in peace.

 

[Xantippe]

What is amazing to me is we’ve been yapping for 16 pages about this terrible tragedy that was really none of our personal beeswax in the first place. I’m thinking we should call a truce and let the family recover in peace.

Well, the authorities are hopefully going to be checking up on minor children at the Duggar house (probably especially the youngest victim from the earlier case) to make sure that all is well. Plus, Josh and Anna are probably going to find CPS on their doorstep pretty soon.

With so many known victims, it is likely that at least one child is not just fine, even if that is the official story.

Also, as I mentioned previously, any counseling that the Duggars got for the victims was probably abusive in and of itself. Here’s a sample sheet on “Counseling Sexual Abuse” that was apparently circulated by the religious organization that the Duggars have been closely affiliated with:

recoveringgrace.org/2013/04/how-counseling-sexual-abuse-blames-and-shames-survivors/

I believe that it’s been posted already in this thread, but it’s worth reposting–the model that that group follows pretty explicitly blames victims of molestation.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

What is amazing to me is we’ve been yapping for 16 pages about this terrible tragedy that was really none of our personal beeswax in the first place. I’m thinking we should call a truce and let the family recover in peace.

It’s none of our beeswax? But the duggars chose to put themselves out there. You can’t say “hey look at me and give me money, but molestation is none of your business…”

This is not some poor family who we all are piling on. It is a family led by a man who controlled and chose this for his family. In exchange for taking all of his children and plastering their most private moments and experiences all over TV and magazines. They were the ones who brought sexuality into the story in the first place. From Josh and his “first kiss at the wedding” to JIll’s obvious consummation in the Church on a table after the ceremony that was walked in on by family members. They spent a whole lot of airtime talking about sexual ethics and morality. Not to mention Josh’s job. None of our business? That sure seems like picking and choosing to me.

 

[Convert_in_99]

It’s none of our beeswax? But the duggars chose to put themselves out there. You can’t say “hey look at me and give me money, but molestation is none of your business…”

This is not some poor family who we all are piling on. It is a family led by a man who controlled and chose this for his family. In exchange for taking all of his children and plastering their most private moments and experiences all over TV and magazines. They were the ones who brought sexuality into the story in the first place. From Josh and his “first kiss at the wedding” to JIll’s obvious consummation in the Church on a table after the ceremony that was walked in on by family members. They spent a whole lot of airtime talking about sexual ethics and morality. Not to mention Josh’s job. None of our business? That sure seems like picking and choosing to me.

Did the Duggar family agree or was it just a duggar or two. If Josh and the victim sisters knew what could happen from this I don’t think they’d have signed up for it. But being teenagers or younger they didn’t know.

I’m saying for their sakes we should just let it be. There’s nothing we can do, it’s in God’s hands.

 

[Xantippe]

Did the Duggar family agree or was it just a duggar or two. If Josh and the victim sisters knew what could happen from this I don’t think they’d have signed up for it. But being teenagers or younger they didn’t know.

I’m saying for their sakes we should just let it be. There’s nothing we can do, it’s in God’s hands.

…and CPS.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

…and CPS.

And because they are public figures,

We can’t have it both ways. There were no threads demanding privacy for the Duggars in regards to their weddings. No concerns for the children before we knew the children were or might still be in danger! As a collective society it is indeed our business. If not this then what? When is enough enough. When do we as Catholics get to stand up and say “No, it is not enough to just say it is none of our business and walk away. We have learned from our own victims and tradgedy>”

ON this thread in particular it is indeed clear that the culture that was prevalent in the Church is still had by many of it’s members. And honestly I cannot condemn them too much because this is an evil that we just don’t want to see. But when we do see it, we need to react in a better spiritual and moral manner.

I am so glad my family has chosen to homeschool. Because like someone pointed out earlier, The only people you can trust is yourself. And looking at the minimizing and reluctance to report ideas that people have. I am indeed scared for our kids.

I guess I should be less outraged and shocked by this thread and more soothed at the actual Church and Her steps for making sure this does not happen. Safe environment training and protocols have helped marginalize the errors of humans. But this thread does cause me to think about how the culture that allows for abuse can still be prevalent in the world. Probably a good reminder for any parent.

It is indeed our business when the public figures and celebrity fall and children are hurt.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Did the Duggar family agree or was it just a duggar or two. If Josh and the victim sisters knew what could happen from this I don’t think they’d have signed up for it. But being teenagers or younger they didn’t know.

I’m saying for their sakes we should just let it be. There’s nothing we can do, it’s in God’s hands.

If your point is that Jim Bob further abused his children by making the unilateral decision to put them on TV then you may be right. But for you to really be taken seriously you would have had to have that opinion BEFORE all of this happened and have never seen the show. But then again that would make the abuse ongoing up until last season. I suppose we could enact laws that forbid anyone under 18 from being in movies or on TV. That might make for some boring TV though.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

What is amazing to me is we’ve been yapping for 16 pages about this terrible tragedy that was really none of our personal beeswax in the first place. I’m thinking we should call a truce and let the family recover in peace.

I find it disturbing that anyone would have the attitude that child sex abuse isn’t a public matter. One of the main reasons we have CPS and similar organizations is to ensure the safety of all children, especially the ones who are being mistreated in ways that used to be considered private matters. I know way too many people whose lives were ruined or almost ruined because their abuse was considered a private affair. Brushing the Duggar abuse under the rug does a great disservice to the victims. Regardless of how the media handles other cases, I believe that every time something like this happens it should be used as an opportunity to educate the public, even if it’s just within the confines of CAF. The more people become aware of the realities of child sex abuse, the better armed we are as a society to prevent it.

 

[Memaw]

Minimizing again. No, touching is not incest if one is touching a hand or foot but a family member touching the breast and genitals, those areas that would be covered by a swim suit, is incest.

On a couple of other threads you have stated that nudity in and of itself is sinful; do you not see the conflict between that and avoiding and minimizing molestation by a family member?

I have NEVER said that, You are saying it. Nudity is sinful when used in a way the TV and even some modern dress and advertisements use it. I NEVER said it was sinful “per se or in and of itself.” A nude baby is NOT sinful. taking a shower is NOT sinful. But common sense as I have said before should tell us the difference.
Your description of incest must be a “Modern” meaning given to the word, as that is NOT what it says in my dictionary
I am NOT “minimizing” anything. I am trying to remind us all that forgiveness is a very important part of Catholic Teaching and who are we to JUDGE anyone on what the media says!! Or what anyone else says that believes every thing the media says. I am of the opinion that Josh has led a very good life since his problem has been handled by his family, the counseling he had and his faith, (repentance and forgiveness). His family has moved on with their lives so why can’t we let them be and be thankful for them. The media is going to continue to drag out every shadow they can come up with in their lives.They don’t care who or how they hurt, (even the innocent children) just so they can keep the story alive and ongoing. And I for ONE do not intend to help them. The girls already said that what the media is doing and saying is a thousand times more hurtful. But then of course, nobody believes them, they believe the media, who is willing the throw them to the wolves just for their story. All this media harp has probably done more harm than we will ever know to some young people who will be afraid to seek help for fear this will happen to them and their family. I DON"T defend what Josh did but I do believe in repentance and forgiveness as our HOLY Catholic Church TEACHES and I won’t be a part of trashing a family just because everyone else is doing it. God Bless, Memaw

 

[DeniseNY]

I find it disturbing that anyone would have the attitude that child sex abuse isn’t a public matter. One of the main reasons we have CPS and similar organizations is to ensure the safety of all children, especially the ones who are being mistreated in ways that used to be considered private matters. I know way too many people whose lives were ruined or almost ruined because their abuse was considered a private affair. Brushing the Duggar abuse under the rug does a great disservice to the victims. Regardless of how the media handles other cases, I believe that every time something like this happens it should be used as an opportunity to educate the public, even if it’s just within the confines of CAF. The more people become aware of the realities of child sex abuse, the better armed we are as a society to prevent it.

But should the identities of minor victims be made public?

 

[Xantippe]

And because they are public figures,

Right.

We can’t have it both ways. There were no threads demanding privacy for the Duggars in regards to their weddings. No concerns for the children before we knew the children were or might still be in danger!

As a collective society it is indeed our business.

**Right. Am I my brother’s keeper? Youbetcha. **

 

[Xantippe]

The girls already said that what the media is doing and saying is a thousand times more hurtful.

**There are three other girls (including a minor) that have not spoken. Are we sure that they would say exactly the same?

Also, as I mentioned, the materials for dealing with child sexual abuse that are prevalent in the Duggars’ religious niche do very much blame the victims. Hence, the girls’ feelings may be quite different than they would be had they had more conventional therapy.

We have no idea what kind of therapy Josh and the girls got.
**

But then of course, nobody believes them, they believe the media, who is willing the throw them to the wolves just for their story.

**Memaw, there is a police report. Why don’t you go and read it?

And yes, it was obtained quite legally.
**

All this media harp has probably done more harm than we will ever know to some young people who will be afraid to seek help for fear this will happen to them and their family. I DON"T defend what Josh did but I do believe in repentance and forgiveness as our HOLY Catholic Church TEACHES and I won’t be a part of trashing a family just because everyone else is doing it. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Memaw]

I’m not concerned about his sin here, I’m concerned about his crime, one in which there is a high rate of recidivism. There are legitimate questions about the type of counseling he got and how that might affect future behavior.

When I read posts like yours, I don’t see an acknowledgement of that. It’s all forgive and move on. However, there are real concerns and not just with the Duggars but in any institution that appears to blame the victims. The belief system the Duggars follow does just that.

Can’t you see that Josh has repented and moved on and so has his family. He has shown NO signs of anything but a respectful young man with a nice family. The counseling he received worked for Josh and that’s all that really matters, whether we agree with it or not!! NO one is “blaming” the victims. Whatever gave you that idea??? Forgiveness is the greatest part of healing for all concerned. And that family has done just that. Why can’t we do the same. Are we accusing him of “future” sins? None of us know what “future” sins are ahead of us. You can’t judge us all on that. Every sins is repeatable and has victims. I would rather forgive, and leave the future up to God, then to carry around this anger and bitterness towords this family. That is NOT healing for anyone! God Bless, Memaw

 

[Gordon_Sims]

Your description of incest must be a “Modern” meaning given to the word, as that is NOT what it says in my dictionary

The legal definition of incest includes any sexual contact between blood relatives.

I am of the opinion that Josh has led a very good life since his problem has been handled by his family, the counseling he had and his faith, (repentance and forgiveness).

Opinions are not facts. You have an image of Josh that is based on a carefully edited television program. You have decided that you won’t allow facts to influence your opinion. You won’t read the police report or listen to any facts about child sex abuse and its affects. Do yourself a favor for a minute and pretend that this isn’t Josh being discussed, but instead is the guy down the street who molested his sisters and your daughter when she went to babysit for them. Now it’s ten years later and, even though he never got any valid therapy, he repented in front of his church and his parents tell everyone that they’ve forgiven him. One of his sisters echoes what his parents say, another one not so much. Your formerly outgoing, happy daughter tells you that she’s moved on, although you’re a bit troubled by how sad and introverted she is now, by her frequent nightmares, her self-destructive behaviors, the way she sleeps around and is always in abusive relationships, the abortion she had last fall and her handful of suicide attempts (all of these are pretty typical behaviors of children who have been abused). Are you still happy with how the situation was handled?

 

[Memaw]

I hope that his intentions were not malice, but it does not change the fact that there are five victims suffering from his actions.

I do agree with you that the restrictions placed on Josh (and all of the other Duggar children) probably did more harm than good, but I can’t see Jim Bob and Michelle changing now. They will probably pull away even more tightly to try and prevent something like this happening again, with even more restrictions.

Lou

His “victims” don’t seem to be suffering as much as some posters. His "victims"are suffering from the media’s “False and sensationalized information”. God Bless, Memaw

 

[ToeInTheWater]

Can’t you see that Josh has repented and moved on and so has his family. He has shown NO signs of anything but a respectful young man with a nice family. The counseling he received worked for Josh and that’s all that really matters, whether we agree with it or not!!

But how do you know this, Memaw? Why, though the exact same media that you’re also bashing for being unreliable! You don’t know Josh Duggar or his family, just because you saw him on a highly edited TV show, the show itself is part of the media. You cannot have it both ways, to assume what we see about the Duggars on their TV show is completely 100% accurate, but the recent media reports cannot be trusted.

That’s what you, and everyone else blaming the “media”, is missing. The Duggars themselves used the media to promote their agenda. I agree you can’t always trust what you see on TV, but why are you applying this standard to the “media” and not the Duggars themselves?

As Xantippe has noted, the Duggar statements in their own defense in their TV interview, had numerous conflicts what the statements they made to the police, documented in the actual police report.

NO one is “blaming” the victims. Whatever gave you that idea??? Forgiveness is the greatest part of healing for all concerned. And that family has done just that. Why can’t we do the same. Are we accusing him of “future” sins? None of us know what “future” sins are ahead of us. You can’t judge us all on that. Every sins is repeatable and has victims. I would rather forgive, and leave the future up to God, then to carry around this anger and bitterness towords this family. That is NOT healing for anyone! God Bless, Memaw

So you are actually stating that you’d rather forgive and take the risk that Josh will sin again, and “leave the future up to God”. So you don’t think other kids, including his own, deserve protection from him. So I guess if Josh sins again, it was God’s will, and no one else is responsible.

Hmm, Isn’t this the same attitude that resulted in all the sexual abuse scandals in the Church? Father confessed his sins, Father said he’ll never do it again, Father went to counseling, let’s give Father a fresh start in a new parish. OOOPS that didn’t work out too well, did it?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Can’t you see that Josh has repented and moved on and so has his famil

You have never answered the question. If you really believe this then you think Josh could open up a daycare, or that you would leave your kids or grandkids with him given a certain circumstance. And if you have Grandkids be careful here memaw, their parents might read it…

Why can’t you separate your disdain for the media and modern culture from the actual evil of Josh and Jimbob? Even a broken clock is right twice a day. This happens to be one of those times where it looks like the witch hunt actually produced a witch or two…

Repentance? How do you know?
Forgiveness? How do you know?

He had no recourse to the sacrament anyway. Plus everyone caught is “repentant” everyone can be sorry after they do something, but that does not cure them, not only that it does not even forgive them in God’s eyes.

You get on others for Judging Josh, but then you claim the ultimate judgement of him that you have know way to know. His righteousness. Who are you to know that?

 

[Memaw]

The legal definition of incest includes any sexual contact between blood relatives.

Opinions are not facts. You have an image of Josh that is based on a carefully edited television program. You have decided that you won’t allow facts to influence your opinion. You won’t read the police report or listen to any facts about child sex abuse and its affects. Do yourself a favor for a minute and pretend that this isn’t Josh being discussed, but instead is the guy down the street who molested his sisters and your daughter when she went to babysit for them. Now it’s ten years later and, even though he never got any valid therapy, he repented in front of his church and his parents tell everyone that they’ve forgiven him. One of his sisters echoes what his parents say, another one not so much. Your formerly outgoing, happy daughter tells you that she’s moved on, although you’re a bit troubled by how sad and introverted she is now, by her frequent nightmares, her self-destructive behaviors, the way she sleeps around and is always in abusive relationships, the abortion she had last fall and her handful of suicide attempts (all of these are pretty typical behaviors of children who have been abused). Are you still happy with how the situation was handled?

Show me the “facts” where Josh has don’t anything since this incident was reported to the police and he received counseling!!! I don’t need to bring in overly exaggerated pretend stories to compare with this situation just to make a point of guilt!! They all had consoling and secular counseling doesn’t have a great track record. God Bless. Memaw

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Show me the “facts” where Josh has don’t anything since this incident was reported to the police and he received counseling!!! I don’t need to bring in overly exaggerated pretend stories to compare with this situation just to make a point of guilt!! They all had consoling and secular counseling doesn’t have a great track record. God Bless. Memaw

Your defense of this and refusal to look at the information while maintaining your position is well…odd.

I hope all is well with you. Perhaps this thread is not a good place for you…

 

[Memaw]

You have never answered the question. If you really believe this then you think Josh could open up a daycare, or that you would leave your kids or grandkids with him given a certain circumstance. And if you have Grandkids be careful here memaw, their parents might read it…

Why can’t you separate your disdain for the media and modern culture from the actual evil of Josh and Jimbob? Even a broken clock is right twice a day. This happens to be one of those times where it looks like the witch hunt actually produced a witch or two…

Repentance? How do you know?
Forgiveness? How do you know?

He had no recourse to the sacrament anyway. Plus everyone caught is “repentant” everyone can be sorry after they do something, but that does not cure them, not only that it does not even forgive them in God’s eyes.

You get on others for Judging Josh, but then you claim the ultimate judgement of him that you have know way to know. His righteousness. Who are you to know that?

You do have an axe to grind. I love your adjectives!!! (remember they are YOUR’S, not mine). Why are you soooo troubled because I believe in repentance and forgiveness? I’m not judging Josh or you but how do you know he didn’t repent or wasn’t forgiven. and yes one can be forgiven by God even without the Sacrament. The Catholic Church teaches that, just in case you didn’t know! There is NO need for repentance if one hasn’t done anything to repent!! Like I said, dragging in these lets pretend stories serves NO purpose. The parents of my grandkids can read ANYTHING I write, they all know my password. In fact two of them are my “computer experts.” and know more about my computer than I do. God Bless, Memaw