Early islamic historians, how important are they to muslims?

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JimmyDFG said:
The promulgation of universal peace is still being used by the Baha’i
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What’s your point here Jimmy?

We are talking about scholarship and innate knowledge…:confused:

You are on a mission of destruction of the Baha’i Faith at all costs it seems. Why?

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Actually servant17,
This thread is on early sources of Islam not the Baha’i. I’m still waiting on Tony to talk about the Shia as he said he’d expand on it. If your intent is to discuss the Baha’i please know we mean no disrespect but you seem to be in the wrong thread. Please confine the Baha’i subject matter to a thread on the Baha’i not Islam.
 
gmcbroom said:
Actually servant17,
This thread is on early sources of Islam not the Baha’i. I’m still waiting on Tony to talk about the Shia as he said he’d expand on it. If your intent is to discuss the Baha’i please know we mean no disrespect but you seem to be in the wrong thread. Please confine the Baha’i subject matter to a thread on the Baha’i not Islam.
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The connection is Muhammad was a Baha’i Manifestation of God.
 
gmcbroom said:
Actually servant17,
This thread is on early sources of Islam not the Baha’i. I’m still waiting on Tony to talk about the Shia as he said he’d expand on it. If your intent is to discuss the Baha’i please know we mean no disrespect but you seem to be in the wrong thread. Please confine the Baha’i subject matter to a thread on the Baha’i not Islam.
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Hello again gmcbroom, I am sorry I have not got back to this, I am currently moving life between countries, so have limit time and internet.

I have Read that Muhammad did indicate that Ali who was as the cousin and then the son-in-law of the Islamic prophet Muhammad, would be His Successor much like Jesus indicated that upon Peter would build Hid church.

He was 10 years old when he Accepted Muhammad and the fist hint that was to succeed Muhummad happened around the age of 13

“Muhammad invited people to Islam in secret for three years before he started inviting them publicly. When he was commanded to invite his closer relatives to come to Islam he gathered the Banu Hashim clan in a ceremony. According to al-Tabari, Ibn Athir and Abu al-Fida, Muhammad announced at invitational events that whoever assisted him in his invitation would become his brother, trustee and successor. Only Ali, who was thirteen or fourteen years old, stepped forward to help him. This invitation was repeated three times, but Ali was the only person who answered Muhammad. Recognising Ali’s continual and singular response to his call, Muhammad declared that Ali was his brother, inheritor and vice-regent and people must obey him. Most of the adults present were uncles of Ali and Muhammad, and Abu Lahab laughed at them and declared to Abu Talib that he must bow down to his own son, as Ali was now his Emir”.

There were other events where Muhammad talked about Ali being the Peter of the Muslim revelation.

It was His youth that led to the rejection of Him by the Older Believers after Muhammad passed on.

I would think that there was no one that knew the Message of Muhammad better, then there was this;

"Ali compiled a complete version of the Quran, mus’haf,six months after the death of Muhammad. The volume was completed and carried by camel to show to other people of Medina. The order of this mus’haf differed from that which was gathered later during the Uthmanic era. This book was rejected by several people when he showed it to them. Despite this, Ali made no resistance against standardised mus’haf.

Will take a lot of time to take in all this information, time I have to give away to other tasks at this time 😊 This link has a lot! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali#cite_ref-10 of course there will be many other sources as well.

It was this line of 12 Imams that said to be the rightful successors of Muhammad and the 12th died out in the year 260ah which there is a prophecy in the Koran that 1000 years would then pass before the promised return. Making the year 1260AH, which is the year 1844AD,

Sorry I have to let this go for a while, so much to do.😊

God bless and always be happy Regards Tony
 
Techno, I do understand that. However, I’m more interested in written source material on Islam from the Islamic time period specifically the earliest Shia writings. Not necessarily the modern time material even if it is said to be of Mohammed through the Bab. After all most Muslims then and now wouldn’t turn to Baha’i writings to increase their knowledge; but would stick with their own Hadith and Islamic sources.
 
gmcbroom said:
Techno, I do understand that. However, I’m more interested in written source material on Islam from the Islamic time period specifically the earliest Shia writings. Not necessarily the modern time material even if it is said to be of Mohammed through the Bab. After all most Muslims then and now wouldn’t turn to Baha’i writings to increase their knowledge; but would stick with their own Hadith and Islamic sources.
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A quick look finds Hadiths of Ali at this link - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Shia_books

Attributed to Ali - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nahj_al-Balagha

This is one also - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Four_Books

I know Baha’u’llah quoted from these a lot.

Regards Tony
 
gmcbroom said:
Techno, I do understand that. However, I’m more interested in written source material on Islam from the Islamic time period specifically the earliest Shia writings. Not necessarily the modern time material even if it is said to be of Mohammed through the Bab. After all most Muslims then and now wouldn’t turn to Baha’i writings to increase their knowledge; but would stick with their own Hadith and Islamic sources.
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437# posts and nobody has come up with the earliest Shia writings, so we might as well talk about other aspects of Islam .🤷
 
Servant19 said:
What’s your point here Jimmy?

We are talking about scholarship and innate knowledge…:confused:

You are on a mission of destruction of the Baha’i Faith at all costs it seems. Why?

.
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I was only stating a fact Servant. Think before making false accusations
 
gmcbroom said:
Techno, I do understand that. However, I’m more interested in written source material on Islam from the Islamic time period specifically the earliest Shia writings. Not necessarily the modern time material even if it is said to be of Mohammed through the Bab. After all most Muslims then and now wouldn’t turn to Baha’i writings to increase their knowledge; but would stick with their own Hadith and Islamic sources.
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I’m not sure if bring up a hadith will do any good. They’ll cherry pick which hadiths suit their cause and reasoning
 
JimmyDFG said:
I’m not sure if bring up a hadith will do any good. They’ll cherry pick which hadiths suit their cause and reasoning
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If God one day came to you Jimmy, and sat down with you, completely and utterly convinced you that He was the true and one God, then for 9 days shared with you the truth about life, the cosmos, religious history and all that is, what would you say in regards to hadiths that contradicted what He shared with you for those 9 days?

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Servant19 said:
If God one day came to you Jimmy, and sat down with you, completely and utterly convinced you that He was the true and one God, then for 9 days shared with you the truth about life, the cosmos, religious history and all that is, what would you say in regards to hadiths that contradicted what He shared with you for those 9 days?
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Servant, I don’t believe in hadiths and thinking up a far-fetched scenario is not going to change that
 
JimmyDFG said:
Servant, I don’t believe in hadiths and thinking up a far-fetched scenario is not going to change that
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So please refrain from commenting on hadiths then friend.

The scenario I presented is far from far-fetched. It represents a story in my life.

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Tony I reviewed the wiki links you presented. They are informative. However, some of the links in the wiki page while they have a title they don’t have content. The what I’m really looking for is if the Shia have a history of Mohammed like the Sunni bukhari? If do I’d be curious if it mirrored Bukhara. If it does they have the same problem. If not then the Shia book may be more authentic if it’s earlier than Bukhara.
 
gmcbroom said:
Tony I reviewed the wiki links you presented. They are informative. However, some of the links in the wiki page while they have a title they don’t have content. The what I’m really looking for is if the Shia have a history of Mohammed like the Sunni bukhari? If do I’d be curious if it mirrored Bukhara. If it does they have the same problem. If not then the Shia book may be more authentic if it’s earlier than Bukhara.
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Hi gmcbroom - The wiki page had a translation link down the bottom. I have downloaded the book “Nahjul Balagahand” in English PDF and Will read it as it looks very interesting.

I think if you look through the Wiki Links you may be able to find all the referenced books.

shiamultimedia.com/nahjulbalagah1.html

Happy new Year by the Way (Saturday Night after sunset & Sunday 20th is New Year for Baha’i 👍 )

God bless and Regards Tony
 
Servant19 said:
If God one day came to you Jimmy, and sat down with you, completely and utterly convinced you that He was the true and one God, then for 9 days shared with you the truth about life, the cosmos, religious history and all that is, what would you say in regards to hadiths that contradicted what He shared with you for those 9 days?

.
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Servant19 said:
The scenario I presented is far from far-fetched. It represents a story in my life.

.
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Are you insinuating you have knowledge the average person does not possess? Or are you one of these so called “manifestation of god”?
 
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