Eastern Rite and Pope Benedict XIV

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From Allatae Sunt:

Transferring from Latin to Greek Rite Forbidden
  1. When Union was effected at the Council of Florence, some Latin Catholics living in Greece thought that it was lawful for them to go over to the Greek rite. They may have been attracted by the freedom retained by the Greeks for priests to keep wives after Ordination if they were married before being ordained. But Pope Nicholas V carefully applied a timely remedy to this abuse: “It has come to Our attention that many Catholics in districts with a Greek Catholic bishop are shamelessly going over to the Greek rites under pretext of the Union. We are greatly astonished, since We do not know what inspired them to leave the practice and rites in which they were born and reared for foreign rites. Even though the rites of the oriental church are praiseworthy, it is not permitted to confuse the rites of the churches. The holy council of Florence never allowed this” (constitution in Bullarii recenter Romae editi, vol. 3, part 3, p. 64).
Since the Latin rite is the rite of the holy Roman church and this church is mother and teacher of the other churches, the Latin rite should be preferred to all other rites. It follows that it is not lawful to transfer from the Latin to the Greek rite. Nor may those who have come over to the Latin rite from the Greek or Oriental rite return again to the Greek Rite, unless particular circumstances occasion the giving of a dispensation (constitution Etsi Pastoralis 57, sect. 2, no. 13, in Our Bullarii, vol. 1). Such dispensations have sometimes been given in times past, and are still given in the Roman College of the Maronites. When a priest there enters the Society of Jesus, he is given a dispensation to transfer to the Latin rite, and sometimes he receives an additional dispensation to say Mass and perform his Divine Office in the church of this College in the Syrian and Chaldaean rite in order to teach this rite to the students there. This is quite clear from many Decrees of the Congregation of the Holy Office, e.g. the Decrees of December 30, 1716; December 14, 1740; and the more recent Decree of August 19, 1752.

Transferring from Greek to Latin Rite
  1. We have dealt with transferring from the Latin to the Greek rite. Transferrals in the opposite direction are not forbidden as strictly as the former. Still, a missionary who hopes for the return of a Greek or Oriental to the unity of the Catholic Church may not make him give up his own rite. This can cause great harm.
Melchite Catholics used to transfer willingly from the Greek to the Latin rite, but they have been forbidden to do so. Missionaries have been warned not to urge them to transfer. Permission to do so has been reserved to the private decision of the Apostolic See. This is clear from Our constitution Demandatam, 85, sect. 35 (Bullarium, vol. 1): “Moreover We expressly forbid henceforth all Melchite Catholics who observe the Greek rite to transfer to the Latin rite. We give strict orders to all missionaries not to encourage anyone rashly to transfer to the Latin from the Greek rite, nor even to allow them to do so if they want to without the permission of the Apostolic See, under the penalties which will be set out below and other penalties to be decided on by Us.”

The same teaching is conveyed in the Decrees of Urban VIII in reference to the GrecoRuthenian rite, issued at the Congregation for the Propagation of the Faith in his presence on February 7 and July 6, 1624. While it might seem fair to allow Italo-Greeks to transfer freely from the Greek to the Latin rite, since they live among us and are subject to a Latin bishop, it has nevertheless been laid down that the consent of the Apostolic See is necessary in the case of the transference of secular or regular clergy. If lay people want to transfer, the permission of their bishop is sufficient. He may give this permission with restraint to certain specified individuals, but never to a whole group. In the latter case the consent of the Apostolic See is required (see constitution Etsi Pastoralis 17, sect. 2, no. 14, Bullarium, vol. 1).
Me as a Byzantine Catholic at first glance without really reading all of Allatae Sunt, I don’ t quite I know if I see a problem. I can understand it if the Pope is speaking in regards to teaching and authority, for then it would be true, and this is how I read it. No church is higher than the Roman Church, so it is to be preferred to Iook at Rome for matters of Faith and Morals. I do not in any way see it as referring to the Liturgical practices, because Allatae Sunt talks highly of the Eastern practices. In regards to switching rites this is a matter of Church Discipline and not doctrine because the Church does now allow for people of the Latin Rite to switch to a Greek Rite.
 
Maybe the conversation did this for you, but it did not for me.

The past is the past.

Keep bringing it up and there can be no future as we are always crying about the past.

Especially when you are a non-catholic. I fail to see where you have anything in this “fight”.
Hello brother David,
If you have any interest in Christian unity, I am sure you can appreciate the current and very real interest Orthodox Christians have in this matter.

Please don’t tell us it’s none of our business in one breath and lament the disunity of the church in another breath. It is just unhelpful.

Michael
 
Hello brother David,
If you have any interest in Christian unity, I am sure you can appreciate the current and very real interest Orthodox Christians have in this matter.

Please don’t tell us it’s none of our business in one breath and lament the disunity of the church in another breath. It is just unhelpful.

Michael
Michael,
I do have an interest in Christian unity but please explain to me how pointing out past failures and being critical of comments taken out of context help in this unity?

I hate to say it but it seems that the many of the non-Catholic posters here are full of negativity and wish to do nothing more than point out the “speck in the eye” of their christian brothers while ignore the “beam” in their eye.
 
“To be immersed in history is to cease to be Protestant”
  • Cardinal Newman
 
Could someone please help me understand what Pope Benedict XIV was saying in “Allatae Sunt” when he said
It seems pretty clear. It also seems clear that recent popes would disagree. (For a minute I thought you were talking about Benedict XVI, and I couldn’t believe that he actually said this–then I took a second look!)

Edwin
 
Michael,
I do have an interest in Christian unity but please explain to me how pointing out past failures and being critical of comments taken out of context help in this unity?
It is history, we talk about it and we deal with it.
I hate to say it but it seems that the many of the non-Catholic posters here are full of negativity and wish to do nothing more than point out the “speck in the eye” of their christian brothers while ignore the “beam” in their eye.
I suppose perspective is everything David. One might say the same from my perspective looking in your direction. 🙂

Praestantia Ritus Latini is a fact of history. Whitewashing it at this point will not change anything because many are still living with the effects. The false assertion of regarding Rome as the “Mother” of all churches is an insult to eastern churches, which know their origins are not of Rome, and know that their own traditions, church offices, disciplines and theology stand upon their own legitimacy.
 
The false assertion of regarding Rome as the “Mother” of all churches is an insult to eastern churches, which know their origins are not of Rome, and know that their own traditions, church offices, disciplines and theology stand upon their own legitimacy.
Not an insult to me, I’m just a humbled to be a member of God’s Church. Plus I could make a good enough argument the the Latin Rite is the mother of all rites since God has choosen it to be the overwhelming majority for a pretty good reason.

The whole rite thing vanishes anyways when we get to heaven. 👍

**1203 **The liturgical traditions or rites presently in use in the Church are the Latin (principally the Roman rite, but also the rites of certain local churches, such as the Ambrosian rite, or those of certain religious orders) and the Byzantine, Alexandrian or Coptic, Syriac, Armenian, Maronite and Chaldean rites. In “faithful obedience to tradition, the sacred Council declares that Holy Mother Church holds all lawfully recognized rites to be of equal right and dignity, and that she wishes to preserve them in the future and to foster them in every way.”
 
Hello brother David,
If you have any interest in Christian unity, I am sure you can appreciate the current and very real interest Orthodox Christians have in this matter.

Please don’t tell us it’s none of our business in one breath and lament the disunity of the church in another breath. It is just unhelpful.

Michael
To me it sounds like holding on to things for no other reason but to be angry with Catholics. Maybe you guys do as a way to make yourselves feel just a bit better about not being members of Christ’s Church. Who knows.
 
Praestantia Ritus Latini is a fact of history.
I have seen this phraseology before, but I’ve never seen any doctrinal decisions defining it. Do you have some source material I can look at from a council or pope? I know of statements in the Council of Trent where the RCC is referred to as the mother of all churches, but have never seen anything directly defining Praestantia Ritus Latini. Thanks.
 
Maybe we could all read the original encyclical in its entirety (available in translation here: papalencyclicals.net/Ben14/b14allat.htm) before merely speculating on this rather provacative quote lifted therefrom?
Thanks.

Quite interesting. The general context is that:
  1. No Romans should be translating to the Greek.
  2. Few Greeks should be translated to the Roman.
  3. No mixing of rites by dispensations.
  4. Celebration using an Antimension is allowed for Roman priests when in the east.
  5. Only Rome may alter any Rite, even then, doing so is grave matter.
  6. You may not force the non-Catholic Greeks to become latins.
Loads of history, too.
 
Thanks.

Quite interesting. The general context is that:
  1. No Romans should be translating to the Greek.
  2. Few Greeks should be translated to the Roman.
  3. No mixing of rites by dispensations.
  4. Celebration using an Antimension is allowed for Roman priests when in the east.
  5. Only Rome may alter any Rite, even then, doing so is grave matter.
  6. You may not force the non-Catholic Greeks to become latins.
Loads of history, too.
Yes, reading the entire document rather than speculating and responding to a cherry-picked passage that out of context was remarkably provacative… Well it ends up being a very different experience painting a very different picture.

One wonders how committed some are to actually doing all the due dilligence before flying into a discussion with both fists a flyin’.

Something for us all to think and pray about, I suppose.
 
It is history, we talk about it and we deal with it. I suppose perspective is everything David. One might say the same from my perspective looking in your direction. 🙂
I remember you from lurking here 2 years ago, I also remember you from an orthodox site where you and others would plot together on to troll catholic answers
 
I remember you from lurking here 2 years ago, I also remember you from an orthodox site where you and others would plot together on to troll catholic answers
lol, it must be an Orthodox conspiracy… you have no idea how far-reaching this thing is! Don’t ask too many questions- for your own safety! 😛
 
I remember you from lurking here 2 years ago,
I am not surprised, since I have been posting here since 2004.
I also remember you from an orthodox site where you and others would plot together on to troll catholic answers
Would you like to provide a link? I am curious. 🙂 I am sure everyone else here is curious too.
 
I have interacted with Hesychios on various fora, and so I can attest to the fact that he does not “troll.”
 
Maybe the conversation did this for you, but it did not for me.

The past is the past.
Exactly the point. It is NOT past.
]Keep bringing it up and there can be no future as we are always crying about the past.
What you call past is present reality, which means no future.
Especially when you are a non-catholic. I fail to see where you have anything in this “fight”.
It’s your Vatican which says we have some special status among those who don’t fit its definition of Catholic, to the point of giving us communion (without asking us, of course). We’re keeping the dialogue honest when the Vatican makes pronouncements of the “Two Lungs.”
 
To me it sounds like holding on to things for no other reason but to be angry with Catholics. Maybe you guys do as a way to make yourselves feel just a bit better about not being members of Christ’s Church. Who knows.
Yes, and that’s the only reason why we don’t take you all up on the invitation to your communion.:rolleyes:

When there are no restrictions on married priests serving in the “diaspora,” then it will be past. Not until.

And sorry if our insistence on Apostolic practice seems “angry” to you.

As we say the ORIGINAL Creed till this day, we believe in the One, Holy, Catholic and APOSTOLIC Church.
 
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