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Here_For_Donuts
Guest
Protestants are heretics.
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Duane1966
Guest
You realize by bolding the whole sentence you are saying that the teaching of the CC is stating that the Catholic Church is the problem?
No. I don’t think that’s the case, but I will clarify.
** the apostasy of Protestantism ** This statement seems in direct contradiction of Catholic teaching.
Hope that’s clearer
Jon
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Topper17
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That’s an easy one Jon. Catholic Answers has a tract named The Great Heresies
This article makes it very clear that the Catholic Church considers Protestantism to be a heresy:
**
The Great Heresies**
…………let’s look at some of the major heresies of Church history and when they began.
Protestantism (16th Century)
Protestant groups display a wide variety of different doctrines. However, virtually all claim to believe in the teachings of sola scriptura (“by Scripture alone”—the idea that we must use only the Bible when forming our theology) and sola fide (“by faith alone”— the idea that we are justified by faith only).
The great diversity of Protestant doctrines stems from the doctrine of private judgment, which denies the infallible authority of the Church and claims that each individual is to interpret Scripture for himself. This idea is rejected in 2 Peter 1:20, where we are told the first rule of Bible interpretation: “First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation.” A significant feature of this heresy is the attempt to pit the Church “against” the Bible, denying that the magisterium has any infallible authority to teach and interpret Scripture.
The doctrine of private judgment has resulted in an enormous number of different denominations. According to The Christian Sourcebook, there are approximately 20-30,000 denominations, with 270 new ones being formed each year. Virtually all of these are Protestant.
NIHIL OBSTAT: I have concluded that the materials
presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors.
Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004
IMPRIMATUR: In accord with 1983 CIC 827
permission to publish this work is hereby granted.
+Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004
Where does it say Protestants are heretics? Me, for example. Born baptized raised Lutheran?
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Starwarsfan2
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Refer to Jons quote , no we are not heretics.
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benjamindt
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if you are not involved in heresy, that would mean you do not deny any truth the Catholic Church teaches must be believed? I find it hard to believe.
btw, I understand the tendency to pick and choose specific parts of texts and use them out of context in order to sway truth to one side or another. I don’t think it’s acceptable.
btw, I understand the tendency to pick and choose specific parts of texts and use them out of context in order to sway truth to one side or another. I don’t think it’s acceptable.
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benjamindt
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The CCC says that “often enough, men of both sides were to blame.” 817
No one said all the members of the church were perfect and no doubt some of them were to blame. The problem is not who was to blame. Instead, the question is why, if someone were truly saved and in search of the Truth, would that person reject the Catholic Church after learning about it? I do not think it is Church teaching that you can be saved by rejecting truth in order to maintain a preferred church membership.
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Starwarsfan2
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I’ll say this as lovingly and caring as possible , Heresy is attacking an essential of the faith , we do not deny an essential so we are not heretics as you claim , though we disagree with your church , so instead of labeling everyone who disagrees with you as an heretic and or apostate , recognize that not ever believer will agree on everything.
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Here_For_Donuts
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From the Catholic perspective, Protestants are heretics. One of the heresies is Sola Scriptura. Protestants believe that Christianity is based on the Bible, but Catholics (and Orthodox) believe that the Bible is based on Christianity. In essence, Martin Luther and his followers left Christianity and formed their own brand new religion.
All throughout the church’s history, there have been schismatics and heretics. The only reason the Protestant heresy survived was because it coincided with the printing press IMO.
All throughout the church’s history, there have been schismatics and heretics. The only reason the Protestant heresy survived was because it coincided with the printing press IMO.
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benjamindt
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I don’t see how it is. My statement is regarding the continuing division, not the original schism, apostasy, heresy or whatever term is preferred.
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benjamindt
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um, the very definition of heresy in the CCC says that if you do not agree with EVERY essential teaching of the Church, then that is heresy, and I don’t see how anyone who knows of the CC but stays away believes everything the CC teaches as necessary to believe.
I’m not labeling anyone, I’m labeling actions and choices.
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MaryT777
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That’s what I understood you to mean as well and it’s a valid claim as we see more and more division as time goes on in non Catholic denoms.
Here on CAF a lot of time is spent teaching the Catholic Faith and many here non Catholic like to quote portions of the CCC which leads me to believe they have access to and some knowledge of the truth of the Church Catholic.
Mary.
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Peter_J
Guest
There’s an old saying that “Nations get the leaders they deserve.” I think that’s an over-generalization … but it gets me to thinking, particularly when I read all the lowest-common-denominator discussions on the internet, that perhaps we as a society *deserve *the internet. 
This assumes that what the Catholic Church teaches, in all areas, is truth. You, as a Catholic should believe that.
I have indeed learned a lot about the Catholic Church, and somewhat less about Eastern Orthodoxy. Their claims regarding papal supremacy seem more in line with historic truth.
So, I accept the truths of the faith. I see no reason to believe that, just because the CC says so, that it holds all truth regarding our faith.
Does it hold much truth? Absolutely. Do I think that Catholics can be saved, even if the Catholic Church teaches error? Absolutely. I don’t believe that grace and forgiveness ends at doctrinal statements.
Jon
Schism, heresy, and apostasy are not interchangeable terms. You said: *The problem is not the Catholic Church but the apostasy of Protestantism. *
Please show me where the Catholic Church claims that the teachings of my communion are apostate. If we are apostate, then the claim in the Catholic Catechism cannot be true.
How can it be possible that “Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation” if we are apostate? How can it be that “**All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church” **, if we are apostate?
Jon
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Duane1966
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The internet? Is that thing still around?There’s an old saying that “Nations get the leaders they deserve.” I think that’s an over-generalization … but it gets me to thinking, particularly when I read all the lowest-common-denominator discussions on the internet, that perhaps we as a society *deserve *the internet.
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Topper17
Guest
As documented by the CA tract on the Great Heresies, Jon, Protestantism IS a heresy. You don’t seem to object to that label for Protestantism as a whole, but you object to individual modern Protestants as being heretics? Why are you not equally bothered by the CA tract designation of Protestantism as a heresy? Don’t you care about that also?
True. The Catholic Church, has acknowledged, with great humility, its role and share of the blame for our division. It would be ‘nice’ if there were some kind of official corresponding acceptance of blame from Lutheranism – some official declaration exhibiting the same kind of humility. However, there isn’t one. Please correct me if I am wrong here. I would love to be wrong on this point. My respect for Lutheranism would grow significantly if I am in fact wrong. From my perspective Jon, and from this side of the Tiber, with all due respect, it is the absence of this kind of humility and willingness from Lutheranism to accept ANY of the blame that IS a “barrier to ecumenism.”
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