Ecumenism-Why the Euphoria and what is the Gain for Catholics?

[Traditional_Ang]

TNT:

Will a Rosary be appropriate?

The pic on the site is lovely…the presbyters do not face the people??

The church is named St. Mary of the Angels, and we have several people who pray the Rosary daily.

I’m sure that would would be appreciated.

You’re right. Much of our liturgy is said with the Priests and the people facing the same direction, as the Catholic did before Vatican II, and is allowed in Anglican Use Parishes, in the Anglican Rite of the Antiochan Orthodox Church and is still allowed in the “Rubrics” for the Roman Catholic Novus Ordo Mass (although most priests don’t do this for fear of offending someone). Picture a 16th Century translation of the Tridentine Liturgy filtered through Thomas Cramner, then add a congregation that responds with enthusiasm, and you begin to get the picture.

Thank you for your prayers and your questions.

In Christ, Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

*ZENIT NEWS :
*The New VATII leader in his Sunday night audience said in reference to the infamous disunity on the Catholic.com Forums:

Tri Nitro:

I get Zenit (at the suggestion of a couple of the other Anglicans) and didn’t see this.

I assume this was a gag commenting that we’re beginning to sound like a circular firing squad? or, Like an Auto de Fe where the firesetters set the fires under themselves? or, Did someone decide to disband the “Threadkillers’ Guild”?

As it was, it was close enough to the truth to be funny. And we know that god loves a good joke - Look at how he drug me in!

In Christ, Michael

 

[Exporter]

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Traditional Ang http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/statusicon_cad/user_online.gif vbmenu_register(“postmenu_419004”, true);
Regular Member

Sir, you missed the central point of my post. You seem to think:"Hand v. tongue is a question of PRACTICE. There are things worth dividing over. "

Your profile tells us you are a Traditional Anglican. I wouldn’t know a traditional Anglican fron a nontraditional Anglican. I don’t think there is an Anglican Church within 400 to 500 mile from where I live. So I would not know a thing about an Anglican except from a novel.

You missed the point all together. This thread has had references from several sources telling what Bishops and the Vatican has said. Let me copy what I said.

---

"Hey guys, look at what has happened on this thread. There are perhaps eight posters who have attempted to state what the Pope wants (or what he said). I know that each person is dedicated and wants to reach the truth, but look, there are several “opinions”, all worthy but somewhat questionable.

The reason I wrote the above was to set the stage for this paragraph. All of you probably have been a member of an organization or maybe a team. When there are two or three people calling the “shots” things get done the wrong way. People dont know who the boss is so they make up their own rules. THERE HAS TO BE ONE PERSON IN CHARGE."

In our Church, the elected Pope is the ultimate Vicar of Christ on earth. The Pope is the highest official of the Magesterium. He is a succesor of St. Peter ( Matt 16: 1118-19) Below we see references to the Pope who should be the one decision maker!

""Protestant controversialists contend strenuously that the words, “Whatsoever thou shalt bind etc.”, confer no special prerogative on Peter, since precisely the same gift, they allege, is conferred on all the Apostles (Matthew 18:18). It is, of course, the case that in that passage the same words are used in regard of all the Twelve. Yet there is a manifest difference between the gift to Peter and that bestowed on the others. In his case the gift is connected with the power of the keys, and this power, as we have seen, signified the supreme authority over the whole kingdom. That gift was not bestowed on the other eleven: and the gift Christ bestowed on them in Matthew 18:18, was received by them as members of the kingdom, and as subject to the authority of him who should be Christ’s vicegerent on earth. There is in fact a striking parallelism between Matthew 16:19, and the words employed in reference to Christ Himself in Apocalypse 3:7: “He that hath the key of David; he that openeth, and no man shutteth; shutteth, and no man openeth.” In both cases the second clause declares the meaning of the first, and the power signified in the first clause by the metaphor of the keys is supreme. It is worthy of note that to no one else save to Christ and His chosen vicegerent does Holy Scripture attribute the power of the keys. “”
From:newadvent.org/cathen/12260a.htm#III

 

[Fr_Ambrose]

Exporter:

Your profile tells us you are a Traditional Anglican. I wouldn’t know a traditional Anglican fron a nontraditional Anglican. I don’t think there is an Anglican Church within 400 to 500 mile from where I live. So I would not know a thing about an Anglican except from a novel.

If you have the time pick up the Susan Howatch novels on Anglican church life. They’re just wonderful. It’s the Starbridge Series. Starbridge is a fictional cathedral town.

Hold on while I work out which is which…

‘Glittering Images’ (1987)
‘Glamorous Powers’ (1988)
‘Ultimate Prizes’ (1989)
‘Scandalous Risks’ (1991)
‘Mystical Paths’ (1992)

 

[HagiaSophia]

Fr Ambrose:

If you have the time pick up the Susan Howatch novels on Anglican church life. They’re just wonderful. It’s the Starbridge Series. Starbridge is a fictional cathedral town.

Hold on while I work out which is which…

‘Glittering Images’ (1987)
‘Glamorous Powers’ (1988)
‘Ultimate Prizes’ (1989)
‘Scandalous Risks’ (1991)
‘Mystical Paths’ (1992)

A dynamite author and everyone a winner - Greeley described her as another Anthony Trollope. But I think you’ve left one out.

 

[Fr_Ambrose]

‘Glittering Images’ (1987)
‘Glamorous Powers’ (1988)
‘Ultimate Prizes’ (1989)
‘Scandalous Risks’ (1991)
‘Mystical Paths’ (1992)

HagiaSophia:

A dynamite author and everyone a winner - Greeley described her as another Anthony Trollope. But I think you’ve left one out.

Oops…

‘Absolute Truths’ (1996?)

 

[Traditional_Ang]

steve b:

This quote does not appear in an official church source that I can see. Do you have the source?

Steve:

I hope you done’t mind if I butt in, but I did find something that was close to what CrusaderNY said the good Cardinal said.

Jerusalem, 21 NOVEMBER, 2001
The Jewish-Christian Dialogue: Foundations, Progress, Difficulties and Perspectives
Cardinal Walter Kasper

"Eleven years later, in 1985, the Commission published the Notes on the Correct Way to Present Judaism in Preaching and Catechesis in the Catholic Church . Here there is a concern that Judaism is not presented in Catholic teaching as being merely an historical and superseded reality. It refers to ‘the permanent reality of the Jewish people É the people of God of the Old Covenant, which has never been revoked É as a living reality closely related to the Church.’

"…This has grown gradually since his visit to Mainz, Germany, on November 17, 1980, when he referred to Jews as ‘the people of God of the Old Covenant, which has never been revoked’,…

"Therefore, the Church believes that Judaism, that is, the faithful response of the Jewish people to GodÕs irrevocable covenant, is salvific for them, because God is faithful to his promises.

“Now, presence and witness, prayer and liturgy, dialogue and social work, which are all part of evangelisation, do not have the goal of increasing the number of Catholics. Thus evangelisation, if understood in its proper and theological meaning, does not imply any attempt of proselytism whatsoever.”

lpj.org/Nonviolence/Documents/Kasper.htm

The Torah required that there be Temple Sacrifices for it the Old Covenant to be operative. Just in case the good Cardinal hasn’t noticed, there hasn’t been a Temple Sacrifice in the Holy of Holies since 70 A.D. Therefore, the Old Cavenant hasn’t been operative since 70 A.D.

It’s a matter of simple logic.

Just for selfish reasons, I would much rather have Jewish converts coming to the CATHOLIC CHURCH than to these PROTESTANT MESSIANIC CHURCHES. I can’t see why anyone would willingly reject the quality of people, intellect and spirituality that I’ve encountered in Jewish people and Jewish Christians and not want them in our Church. Remember, I was brought bcak to the church by an Orthodox Rabbi, and I can’t help but think how many ex-Catholics this man could bring back if he were a CATHOLIC PRIEST or a PERPETUAL DEACON!

On top of that, I’ve never seen a Church that wasn’t actively involved in recruiting new members that didn’t sart losing the ones they already have. It’s a rule of NATURE that also applies to things of the SPIRIT. NO BODY REMAINS IN STASIS! It will either EXPAND and GROW, becoming MORE VITAL, or it will CONTRACT and SHRINK, becoming LESS VITAL!

So, if Cardinal Kasper is really planning NOT TO INCREASE THE NUMBER OF CATHOLICS, then he is (unwittingly) planning to DECREASE THE NUMBER OF CATHOLICS!

It’s really that simple.

Please, give the Catholic Church all the Jewish People who want to come to Christ, and do not discourage them. We need them and all of the gifts they will bring with them.

Remember, the first Christians were Jews, and we have Salvation because a scared little Jewish girl said, “YES” to God.

Blessings, be upon you and your household.

In Christ, Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

** EXPORTER:**

In re your #140: Ê
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=419072&postcount=140**

From reading a few of the other posts in reply to that post, a few of the other people also missed the point.

I’ve seen what happens when NO one is in charge or when NO one has the ability to discipline wayward Bishops and Priests or others within a Church. And, When NO one has the ability to bring a Church back around to its original purpose.

I happen to belong to the Traditional Anglican Communion which has about 450,000 members worldwide. We’ve been in negotiations to UNITE with the Vatican for most of the last 2-1/2 years. It’s the only time in history that 300,000 people (the number of people who knew the "secret as of last Feb.) have kept a secret.

This project wouldn’t stand a chance except for the CHIEF SHEPHARD, Pope John Paul II and his main assistant, Cardinal Ratzinger. These men aren’t “hirelings” and you are LUCKY to have them!

Regarding the “Sir”, I’m not and I never have been an OFFICER or NIGHTED by any Royal of any Country or Foreign power. My Name is Michael, and I’ve gone by that in a variety of Forums.

If you’re in Texas, you should have an Anglican USE parish NOT too far from you - These are CATHOLIC CHURCHESA using a “Catholic’d” Anglican Missal who have their own clergy:

walsingham-church.org/otherparishes.htm

walsingham-church.org/

rc.net/corpuschristi/stanselm/

Tradtional Anglicans in the USA:

acahome.org/

acahome.org/stsearch.htm#tx

And then, please use my posts. I provide a LOT of LINKS and I really try to be informative.

I hope this helps.

In Christ, Michael**

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Fr Ambrose:

Oops…

‘Absolute Truths’ (1996?)

And you say you couldn’t do an Anglican Rite in your Orthodox Church for the sake of your ticker…

Although, that Lorrha Liturgy is beautiful, and I recognized some of the pryers because we use them in the St. Augustine’s Prayer Book. That’s a suppliment to the 1928 Book of Common Prayer and the Anglican Missal, which is more for personal devotion use then the other two, which are for public worship.

It nice to see you made it through Sunday’s Liturgy. We did Septuagesisma Sunday, which means that everything was PURPLE, and we “burried” the Alleluia’s. The children had quite the time.

I meantioned in another thread that our Webmistress, Tanya, who is also our Rector’s wife, suffered an acute episode of her M.S,

If you could include her in the prayers before your alter, I’d be grateful.

God bless you and have a good day.

I need to go to bed - Good Night to every one.

In Christ, Michael

 

[CrusaderNY]

From the EWTN Library, a sugar coated description of Islam being taught to Catholics. Do we really buy into this? What about all of the blaspemies?

---

OUR LADY AND ISLAM: HEAVEN’S PEACE PLAN
Fr Ladis J. Cizik, Blue Army National Executive Director **
Islam** Islam is an Arabic word that can be defined as “to make peace.” Islam is the religion founded by Mohammed, which considers the Koran as its holy book. In addition, Islam accepts the New Testament of the Christians and the Old Testament of the Jews as Divinely inspired works. Followers of Islam are known as Muslims (also: Moors, Turks, and Moslems) and, just as Jews and Christians, believe in only one God. Yet, over the centuries, Muslims have engaged in tremendous wars with Christians and Jews. It would seem that there is little hope for peace. However, Heaven’s Peace Plan, involving Our Lady, is evidenced at Fatima, Portugal as well as other places around the world.

**Fatima

**The Moors once occupied Portugal. The village of Fatima was given the Islamic name of the well-loved Princess of the nearby Castle of Ourem. She died at an early age after marrying the Count of Ourem and converting to Catholicism. Baptized with the Christian name of Oureana, she was named at birth “Fatima,” like many other Moslem girls, in honor of the daughter of Mohammed. Of his daughter, Fatima, the founder of Islam, Mohammed, said: “She has the highest place in heaven after the Virgin Mary.”

It is a fact that Moslems from various nations, especially from the Middle East, make so many pilgrimages to Our Lady of Fatima’s Shrine in Portugal that Portuguese officials have expressed concern. The combination of an Islamic name and Islamic devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary is a great attraction to Moslems. God is writing straight with crooked lines, as we will see. Fatima is a part of Heaven’s Peace Plan. It is hope for the world.

**The Koran

**In the Koran, the holy name of the Blessed Virgin Mary is mentioned no less than thirty times. No other woman’s name is even mentioned, not even that of Mohammed’s daughter, Fatima. Among men, only Abraham, Moses, and Noah are mentioned more times than Our Lady. In the Koran, Our Blessed Mother is described as “Virgin, ever Virgin.” The Islamic belief in the virginity of Mary puts to shame the heretical beliefs of those who call themselves Christian, while denying the perpetual virginity of Mary. Make no mistake about it, there is a very special relationship between the Blessed Virgin Mary and the Moslems!

**The Holy Land

**The Holy Land has been a real battleground between the Islamic peoples and Christianity over the centuries. Evidence of this are the numerous churches and basilicas that have been built by the Church, destroyed by, the Moslems, rebuilt by Catholic Crusaders, leveled again by the followers of Islam, and so on over the course of history. However, there is one remarkable exception: the Basilica of Saint Anne in Jerusalem.

The Crusaders built this church and named it in honor of the mother of the Blessed Virgin Mary. In the Crypt of St. Anne’s Basilica, a statue of the Infant Mary is venerated on what is believed to be the exact spot where Our Lady was born. Their great reverence for Our Lady precluded the Moslems from destroying her birthplace. The foundation for Heaven’s Peace Plan at Fatima, Portugal, can be found in the Land of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

**Spain

**As the Moslems swept through Spain in the 8th century, a great religious treasure was buried for safe-keeping in the earth, high in the Estremadura Mountains. It was a much venerated statue of Our Lady holding the Divine Child Jesus that was a gift of Pope Gregory the Great to Bishop Leander of Seville. After the overthrow of Moorish occupation, the image was uncovered in the year 1326, subsequent to a vision of Our Lady to a humble shepherd by the name of Gil. Our Lady’s very special statue was enshrined in a nearby Franciscan Monastery next to the “Wolf River.”

The Moslems, during their Spanish occupation, had actually named the river. The Islamic term for Wolf River is “Guadalupe” (Guada = River; Lupe = Wolf). Hence, the famous Catholic image in Spain has been known, since the 14th century, by the Islamic name of “Our Lady of Guadalupe.”

 

[CrusaderNY]

Let us pray instead for these non-Catholics conversion to our Lord, something that we should do at Benediction each and every first Friday, in the un-Ecumenized form below, which John XXIII decided to edit to please the Modernists and the “One World Religion”

I can think of no better prayer than the Consecration of the Human Race to the Sacred Heart of Jesus, in its unadulterated form given by Pope Pius XI in his Encyclical Letter Quas primas of December 11, 1925. (Under John XXIII, the sentences praying for the conversion of the Jews and Mohammedans was stricken in the name of “oecumenism.” Those sentences are given in boldface below, as it is these that are most germane to this day.) To this prayer may commendably be added the Litany of the Sacred Heart of Jesus.Most sweet Jesus, Redeemer of the human race, look down upon us humbly prostrate in Thy presence. We are Thine, and Thine we wish to be; but to be more surely united with Thee, behold, each one of us freely consecrates himself today to Thy most Sacred Heart. Many indeed have never known Thee; many too, despising Thy precepts, have rejected Thee. Have mercy on them all, most merciful Jesus, and draw them to Thy Sacred Heart. Be Thou King, O Lord, not only of the faithful who have never forsaken Thee, but also of the prodigal children who have abandoned Thee; grant that they may quickly return to their Father’s house lest they die of wretchedness and hunger. Be Thou King of those who are deceived by erroneous opinion, or whom discord keeps aloof, and call them back to the harbor of truth and the unity of faith, so that soon there may be but one flock and one Shepherd. Be Thou King of all those who are still involved in the darkness of idolotry or of Islamism, and refuse not to draw them all into the light and kingdom of God. Turn Thine eyes of mercy towards the children of that race, once Thy chosen people. Of old, they called down upon themselves the Blood of the Savior; may It now descend upon them as a laver of redemption and of life. Grant, O Lord, to Thy Church assurance of freedom and immunity from harm; give peace and order to all nations, and make the earth resound from pole to pole with one cry: Praise be to the Divine Heart that wrought our salvation; to It be glory and honor forever. Amen.
Deacon Ed:

I fail to understand why a quotation from one of the great saints of our Church should be ingored. I am neither a “liberal” nor an “anti-Catholic.” I serve the Catholic Church in both the Latin and Melkite Churches. There are numerous examples of artwork in the catecombs showing communion in the hand; there is the Catechetical Instruction of St. Cyril of Jerusalem also describing how the neophytes are to receive communion in the hand.

Luther did not reinstitute communion in the hand – that came with those who followed Cranmer in the Church of England. Luther held to the fact that the bread and wine became the Body and Blood of Jesus – he never denied that. Luther, being an Augustinian, would have followed Augustinian philosophy rather than the Dominican philosophy of Aquinas and, therefore, would have refrained from the use of the term “transubstantiation.”

And that could happen just as easily with communion on the tongue which is why the good sisters were very careful in asking us, as students, to watch those around us to make sure they did not remove the Blessed Sacrament from their mouths as they returned from receiving communion.

Agree? What makes you think they agree? Pope Paul VI authorized the process, under the condition that the national conference of bishops request it by a 2/3 vote. This happened in the United States, it did not happen in Italy thus the indult is granted here, but not in Rome. This has nothing to do with the desires of Pope John Paul II who does, indeed, give communion in the hand as anyone who has watched the papal liturgies would know.

But nothing says they gave communion only on the tongue. This is a strawman argument.

Not only has it been retained, it is the normative method for the reception of communion in the Latin Rite Church, receiving in the hand is an indult, an exception to the law granted by Rome.

I’ve already shown how this is only the first half of the citation – the remained shows that the Chuch has the right to grant this privilege to any they desire where there is need.

Deacon Ed

 

[Exporter]

**From the EWTN Library, a sugar coated description of Islam being taught to Catholics. Do we really buy into this? What about all of the blaspemies?

OUR LADY AND ISLAM: HEAVEN’S PEACE PLAN**
Fr Ladis J. Cizik, Blue Army National Executive Director **
Islam** Islam is an Arabic word that can be defined as “to make peace.” Islam is the religion founded by Mohammed, which considers the Koran as its holy book. In addition, Islam accepts the New Testament of the Christians and the Old Testament of the Jews as Divinely inspired works. Followers of Islam are known as Muslims (also: Moors, Turks, and Moslems) and, just as Jews and Christians, believe in only one God. Yet, over the centuries, Muslims have engaged in tremendous wars with Christians and Jews. It would seem that there is little hope for peace. However, Heaven’s Peace Plan, involving Our Lady, is evidenced at Fatima, Portugal as well as other places around the world.

I will research the “Blue Army”. Who are they? If Islam accepts the New Testament as divinely inspired, this man wonders why all the sources I have read ( and also from one real live Muslim) say that Jesus was just another prophet - that he was not Devine.

This does seem to be sugar-coated alright. It is not reflective of what we are seeing in the world today. Suicide bombers, beheadings and terrorism abound in the Muslim world. They use their Churches (mosques) as terrorist strongholds with Amams leading the fight. Maybe I missed something.

 

[Deacon_Ed]

Exporter,

The Blue Army is affiliated with the idea of spreading the news of the apparition at Fatima. It’s no wonder the Fatima would be a place of interst to Muslims – it was named after Mohammed’s daughter!

In Arabic, the word “Islam” means “surrender” – as in “to surrender to god’s will.” It carries a connotation of peace because peace is the result of that surrender.

Muslims accept the Old Testament as Divinely Inspired, and the New Testament as the word of Jesus who was, in their eyes, a great teacher and prophet – although they view Mohammed as the great Prophet.

Muslims consider Jews and Christians to be “people of the book” and, therefore, in pure Islam (not the corrupted, militaristic version that we see so often) there is a consideration given to Jews and Christians that is not found for others.

Deacon Ed

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Traditional Ang:

Regarding the “Sir”, I’m not and I never have been an OFFICER or NIGHTED by any Royal of any Country or Foreign power. My Name is Michael, and I’ve gone by that in a variety of Forums.

Michael: Exporter lives, and I assume, is from, Texas, as am I. For us, the term “sir” is politely applied to any adult male, as “ma’am” is to any adult woman (not just Her Majesty the Queen). An excellent example of the need for even secular ecumenism, isn’t it, how we talk to each other.

 

[Contarini]

Traditional Ang:

Sorry. NO communion Rail.
Look VERY closely.

Most Methodists are like “Low Church” Epicopalians in their view towards Communion - NO Transubstantiation. (no “Real Presence” - Just symbolic), Once a Month, just to commemmorate Jesus’ Death and Resurrection.

Many Methodists do hold this view, but it is not the view of John and Charles Wesley and not the view of the Methodist liturgical and doctrinal texts (the latter include an abridgement of the 39 Articles). While the Wesleys did reject transubstantiation, they strongly believed in a spiritual Real Presence in which believers truly feed on the Body and Blood of Christ. This, and not a purely symbolic view, is the view of the 39 Articles and of “low church” Episcopalians today. Maybe you’ve met Episcopalians who believe the Eucharist is purely symbolic. I knew one guy on the Internet who I believe held such views but he wound up leaving (and joining the Methodists, actually!). I’ve never known an Episcopalian who told me face-to-face that they didn’t believe in the Real Presence.

In Christ,

Edwin

 

[Exporter]

Contarini,

May I ask what YOU mean by “transubstantiation” and the “Real Presence”. How are they different in your mind.

Also you use the words “low church” and I assume there is a 'high church too, what does that mean? :bounce:

 

[Exporter]

JKirk_____,

Thanks jKirk for,“Michael: Exporter lives, and I assume, is from, Texas, as am I. For us, the term “sir” is politely applied to any adult male, as “ma’am” is to any adult woman (not just Her Majesty the Queen). An excellent example of the need for even secular ecumenism, isn’t it, how we talk to each other.”

Yes, Michael, Sir is exremely polite as is,“Yes Mam”. You seem to be used to “Sir” only used for a Knight (Eng.)
Michael,
I did chose the word “Sir” because to use your first name would be a bit rude here in Texas. So I used “Sir”. But I can go with Michael if that is your screen name. We call strangers ,“Sir”.

 

[Exporter]

Deacon Ed:

Exporter,

The Blue Army is affiliated with the idea of spreading the news of the apparition at Fatima. It’s no wonder the Fatima would be a place of interst to Muslims – it was named after Mohammed’s daughter!

In Arabic, the word “Islam” means “surrender” – as in “to surrender to god’s will.” It carries a connotation of peace because peace is the result of that surrender.

Muslims accept the Old Testament as Divinely Inspired, and the New Testament as the word of Jesus who was, in their eyes, a great teacher and prophet – although they view Mohammed as the great Prophet.

Muslims consider Jews and Christians to be “people of the book” and, therefore, in pure Islam (not the corrupted, militaristic version that we see so often) there is a consideration given to Jews and Christians that is not found for others.

Deacon Ed

---

Here is the Blue Army’s site bluearmy.com/
Blue Army & Islam ewtn.com/library/MARY/OLISLAM.HTM

Our Lady, the Rosary and Islam, freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/544006/posts

And finally a wealth of topics cin.org/users/msmith/links.html

Jews for Jesus jews-for-jesus.org/

On some sites the Blue Army is called a “cult”, why I done know. But cults are outside of the Church.

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Exporter:

Yes, Michael, Sir is extremely polite as is,“Yes Ma’am”. You seem to be used to “Sir” only used for a Knight (Eng.)
Michael,
I did chose the word “Sir” because to use your first name would be a bit rude here in Texas. So I used “Sir”. But I can go with Michael if that is your screen name. We call strangers ,“Sir”.

Exporter,

I thought you had read enough of my drivel that we would be familiar, as “on speaking terms”. I didn’t think that I was a stranger - I’ve been posting here a month, and most everybody’s had a chance to talk to me.

My pastor and his wife are from Texas (Anglican Priests can and usu. do marry), and they were quite upset at the 'Horns loss on New Year’s Day.

God Bless.

In Christ, Michael

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

From the EWTN Library, a sugar coated description of Islam being taught to Catholics. Do we really buy into this? What about all of the blaspemies?

OUR LADY AND ISLAM: HEAVEN’S PEACE PLAN

Fr Ladis J. Cizik, Blue Army National Executive Director

Islam Islam is an Arabic word that can be defined as “to make peace.” Islam is the religion founded by Mohammed, which considers the Koran as its holy book. In addition, Islam accepts the New Testament of the Christians and the Old Testament of the Jews as Divinely inspired works. Followers of Islam are known as Muslims (also: Moors, Turks, and Moslems) and, just as Jews and Christians, believe in only one God. Yet, over the centuries, Muslims have engaged in tremendous wars with Christians and Jews. It would seem that there is little hope for peace. However, Heaven’s Peace Plan, involving Our Lady, is evidenced at Fatima, Portugal as well as other places around the world.

Fatima

The Moors once occupied Portugal. The village of Fatima was given the Islamic name of the well-loved Princess of the nearby Castle of Ourem. She died at an early age after marrying the Count of Ourem and converting to Catholicism. Baptized with the Christian name of Oureana, she was named at birth “Fatima,” like many other Moslem girls, in honor of the daughter of Mohammed. Of his daughter, Fatima, the founder of Islam, Mohammed, said: “She has the highest place in heaven after the Virgin Mary.”

It is a fact that Moslems from various nations, especially from the Middle East, make so many pilgrimages to Our Lady of Fatima’s Shrine in Portugal that Portuguese officials have expressed concern. The combination of an Islamic name and Islamic devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary is a great attraction to Moslems. God is writing straight with crooked lines, as we will see. Fatima is a part of Heaven’s Peace Plan. It is hope for the world.## If Fatima is “hope for the world” - where does that leave Christ ? As so often, He is the stumbling block to such syncretist tendencies (as James Hitchcock points out in Catholicism confronts modernity). Ignore Jesus - and anything goes. Christianity does not revolve around Mary.

The Koran

In the Koran, the holy name of the Blessed Virgin Mary is mentioned no less than thirty times. No other woman’s name is even mentioned, not even that of Mohammed’s daughter, Fatima. Among men, only Abraham, Moses, and Noah are mentioned more times than Our Lady. In the Koran, Our Blessed Mother is described as “Virgin, ever Virgin.” The Islamic belief in the virginity of Mary puts to shame the heretical beliefs of those who call themselves Christian, while denying the perpetual virginity of Mary. ## The analogy is questionable because Christians have a much higher view of Christ than the Koran suggests Muslims do. So the two POVs of Mary are not entirely comparable. Mary is of slight importance for Christians, compared with her Son - if Islam accepted that Christ is truly Divine, it would have a higher doctrine of Christ, which would correspondingly lower the position of Mary. BTW - Jesus is mentioned 93 times. I find it worrying that he seems to be rather unimportant in all this. ##

Make no mistake about it, there is a very special relationship between the Blessed Virgin Mary and the Moslems!
The Holy Land

The Holy Land has been a real battleground between the Islamic peoples and Christianity over the centuries. Evidence of this are the numerous churches and basilicas that have been built by the Church, destroyed by, the Moslems, rebuilt by Catholic Crusaders, leveled again by the followers of Islam, and so on over the course of history. However, there is one remarkable exception: the Basilica of Saint Anne in Jerusalem.

The Crusaders built this church and named it in honor of the mother of the Blessed Virgin Mary. In the Crypt of St. Anne’s Basilica, a statue of the Infant Mary is venerated on what is believed to be the exact spot where Our Lady was born. Their great reverence for Our Lady precluded the Moslems from destroying her birthplace. The foundation for Heaven’s Peace Plan at Fatima, Portugal, can be found in the Land of Our Lord Jesus Christ.
[continued]