EGYPT - Egypt, Muslim Brotherhood assaults 22 Christian churches [AN]

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The attacks are connected to the evacuation of Islamist sit-ins by the police. At the moment there is no data about any deaths or injuries. Fr. Rafic Greiche, spokesperson of the Egyptian Catholic Church, spoke of at least seven Catholic churches attacked, and another fifteen Coptic Orthodox and Protestant churches

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Islamic zealots attacked 23 Christian churches in Cairo and surrounding regions on August 14, as violence spread after the Egyptian police cleared out camps of protesters supporting the …

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Iraq ought to have been the wake up call on what will happen to the Christians of the ME once the secular dictators are removed.

Overall though, Western liberals and leftists were much more interested in projecting those who warned about Islamists as bigots, and became indifferent to Christian persecution the moment that Bush left office.

Syria’s next, and still the indifference continues.
 
Darryl1958 said:
Iraq ought to have been the wake up call on what will happen to the Christians of the ME once the secular dictators are removed.

Overall though, Western liberals and leftists were much more interested in projecting those who warned about Islamists as bigots, and became indifferent to Christian persecution the moment that Bush left office.

Syria’s next, and still the indifference continues.
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Given that the targeting of individuals/groups by other individuals/groups in Iraq was based on, in descending order,- status/protections/“perks” held under Saddam’s regime, ethnic group (could be listed first given that a lot of the prior was based on one’s ethnic group), tribe/sub-tribe/family group, political affiliation, economic status, and lastly religious group- I’d say that Iraq is actually a rather poor “wake up call” on what will happen to Christians in the ME once secular dictators are removed.
 
This is a prime example of the problems that occur in a theocratic nation. When any religion, regardless of which is enshrined in a nation’s laws, it breeds hatred and violence towards members of other religions. This is Sharia law in action!
 
SeannyM said:
This is a prime example of the problems that occur in a theocratic nation. When any religion, regardless of which is enshrined in a nation’s laws, it breeds hatred and violence towards members of other religions. This is Sharia law in action!
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Egypt isn’t a theocratic nation. Not even close to being one.
 
oldcatholicguy said:
Given that the targeting of individuals/groups by other individuals/groups in Iraq was based on, in descending order,- status/protections/“perks” held under Saddam’s regime, ethnic group (could be listed first given that a lot of the prior was based on one’s ethnic group), tribe/sub-tribe/family group, political affiliation, economic status, and lastly religious group- I’d say that Iraq is actually a rather poor “wake up call” on what will happen to Christians in the ME once secular dictators are removed.
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Given that Iraq’s Assyrian Christians were the first to be ethnically cleansed once the secular dictator was removed and a Islamic constitution was adopted, I would say that there is no real excuse for people to be asleep any more as the same thing happens in Egypt and next Syria.
Nevertheless, snores fill the air, as the West keeps hitting that snooze button.

Keep on dreaming.

It is better than the reality facing Christians in the ME today, for sure.
 
oldcatholicguy said:
Egypt isn’t a theocratic nation. Not even close to being one.
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While not officially a theocracy, the Egyptian government is primarily controlled by the Muslim Brotherhood, and their president is a member of the brotherhood as well. This would be like having Pat Robertson or Fred Phelps as president of the US.
 
SeannyM said:
While not officially a theocracy, the Egyptian government is primarily controlled by the Muslim Brotherhood, and their president is a member of the brotherhood as well. This would be like having Pat Robertson or Fred Phelps as president of the US.
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I think you’ll find that you’re slightly out of date there.
 
SeannyM said:
While not officially a theocracy, the Egyptian government is primarily controlled by the Muslim Brotherhood, and their president is a member of the brotherhood as well. This would be like having Pat Robertson or Fred Phelps as president of the US.
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So, the MB (the guys who “really” control Egypt’s government) just decided to let the military overthrow them and kick Morsi out of office? Sure, I guess Morsi just wanted to take an extended vacation.

Egypt’s government is controlled by the Egyptian military and has been for at least the last 50 years.
 
Darryl1958 said:
Given that Iraq’s Assyrian Christians were the first to be ethnically cleansed once the secular dictator was removed and a Islamic constitution was adopted, I would say that there is no real excuse for people to be asleep any more as the same thing happens in Egypt and next Syria.
Nevertheless, snores fill the air, as the West keeps hitting that snooze button.

Keep on dreaming.

It is better than the reality facing Christians in the ME today, for sure.
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  1. Thanks for not bothering to actually address my comment.
    1a. Notice how you not only listed an ethnic group (ranked higher on my targeting list than religious group), but you also used the term “ethnically cleansed.”
  2. Assyrian Christians were actually persecuted prior to the fall of Saddam and the adoption of Iraq’s new constitution. Other groups persecuted prior to (and after) the above would be Muslim Kurds and Shitte Arabs.
  3. Sorry to break it to you, but the first group to be targeted after Saddam wasn’t the Assyrians or Iraqi Christians. The first group would be Muslims by other Muslims.
    3a. And trying to base “who did what to whom” on religion isn’t really that helpful given the fact that Iraq is still a tribal society and one’s tribe or tribal affiliation dictates not only one’s religion, but one’s ethnic group, probable economic status, and favor/“perks” under Saddam’s regime.
Please quit trying to force a square beg (Iraqi Muslims attacking Iraqi Christians primarily because they are Christian) into a round hole (sectarian violence based along ethnic/tribal identity following the downfall of a long term oppressive regime which follows historical patterns of internal violence/persecution based on ethnic/tribal identity).
 
(Coptic) Bishop Anba Suriel tweeted, “It is becoming clear that this is a planned and systemic attack by the MB against the Copts and their churches in Egypt. May God help us!”

Tallying the destruction
More than 40 churches were attacked. Including Coptic, Greek Orthodox, Catholic, and Anglican.

In Egypt, Media Sympathizes with Muslim Brotherhood, Persecution of Christians Ignored
And why has the persecution reached unprecedented levels? Because the Muslim Brotherhood’s Mohamed Morsi was ousted by a revolution that saw as many as 30 million Egyptians, most of them Muslims, take to the streets. But of course, the Brotherhood does not want to admit that Muslim majorities do not favor their rule, so they scapegoat the already-hated Christians, portraying them as fundamental to the ousting of Morsi.
…
Accordingly, among some Islamists, anti-Christian fury has taken on genocidal proportions. Recently a Libyan Muslim named Tamar Rashad called in to a talk show, saying “I want to offer the good news to [Pope] Tawadros that, Allah willing, the day is coming when no Copt will ever again tread the ground of Egypt – and no churches. We will no longer allow churches to exist.”
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Only steel bars saved Suez priest, family
An Anglican priest and his family narrowly escaped harm this morning after a mob armed with rocks and petrol bombs were kept out his church building by steel window bars.
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The Revd Ehab Ayoub, his family, a lay minister and a guard were trapped in St Saviour’s Church, Suez, for hours while pro-Mursi supporters were attacking the building.
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Father Rafiq Greiche, spokesman of the Catholic Church in Egypt, strongly condemned the attacks against churches and Christians, saying that the Copts were made to pay the price for their participation in the revolution against the Islamist regime on 30 June. He demanded that the State should take a firm stance against the assailants.
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Fr Rafiq announced that the Catholic Church has called off the celebrations of the feast of the Assumption of the Holy Virgin tomorrow.
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wataninet.com/watani_Article_Details.aspx?A=44010
 
oldcatholicguy said:
  1. Thanks for not bothering to actually address my comment.
    1a. Notice how you not only listed an ethnic group (ranked higher on my targeting list than religious group), but you also used the term “ethnically cleansed.”
  2. Assyrian Christians were actually persecuted prior to the fall of Saddam and the adoption of Iraq’s new constitution. Other groups persecuted prior to (and after) the above would be Muslim Kurds and Shitte Arabs.
  3. Sorry to break it to you, but the first group to be targeted after Saddam wasn’t the Assyrians or Iraqi Christians. The first group would be Muslims by other Muslims.
    3a. And trying to base “who did what to whom” on religion isn’t really that helpful given the fact that Iraq is still a tribal society and one’s tribe or tribal affiliation dictates not only one’s religion, but one’s ethnic group, probable economic status, and favor/“perks” under Saddam’s regime.
Please quit trying to force a square beg (Iraqi Muslims attacking Iraqi Christians primarily because they are Christian) into a round hole (sectarian violence based along ethnic/tribal identity following the downfall of a long term oppressive regime which follows historical patterns of internal violence/persecution based on ethnic/tribal identity).
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Christians have always been persecuted in the House of Islam—Egypt too. Dhimmitude is as old as the Koran.

It doesn’t mean that Muslims don’t kill other Muslims, or it doesn’t discount that there are all kinds of ethnic/tribal/cultural/religious divisions that give reasons for violence. It doesn’t discount that tribalism prevails in the Arab world even now.

The fact that there are a whole host of reasons that Muslims kill others was tangential to the point that Iraq ought to have been a wake up call to what enabling an Islamist Middle East is going to bring about.

Iraq really ought to have served as a wake up call, and informed foreign policy.
 
Suffice it to say that the MB is at the heart of the Islamist take-over of the ME.
These are not the people that American administrations ought to be playing footsie with in any way.
Catholic anthropologist Rene Girard notes how civilizations are formed in murder. People rallying around the murder of a scapegoat brings people together in a common cause, and allows people a reprieve from all their animosities and resentments that build up in their competitions and their envies of each other.

Christians are being used as such a scapegoat by the MB and the Islamists.
 
Darryl1958 said:
Suffice it to say that the MB is at the heart of the Islamist take-over of the ME.
These are not the people that American administrations ought to be playing footsie with in any way.
Catholic anthropologist Rene Girard notes how civilizations are formed in murder. People rallying around the murder of a scapegoat brings people together in a common cause, and allows people a reprieve from all their animosities and resentments that build up in their competitions and their envies of each other.

Christians are being used as such a scapegoat by the MB and the Islamists.
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Amen, I can’t for the life of me understand the US stance in this. Obviously the MB is nothing but radical terrorists.

From what I see with these ever changing counts, they don’t even know how many Church’s were destroyed.

We should be supporting the military and in fact help them. Astonishing as it is, we have been involved in “:everything” in the middle east, nothing worked out. And the one country that actually gets it and wants to live free, we refuse to help them

And every country we been in, same story, burn the Church’s kill the Christians. 🤷 Pretty predictable by now?
 
GaryTaylor said:
Amen, I can’t for the life of me understand the US stance in this.
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Neither can I. I also don’t understand the US supporting “the rebels” in Syria, who have ties to Al Qaeda.
From what I see with these ever changing counts, they don’t even know how many Church’s were destroyed.
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I think the problem is that some people are counting only burned down to the rubble churches while others are including churches that were attacked by mobs, but for one reason or another, were not as substantially damaged. I’ve also seen lists which included schools (including at least two Catholic schools) and convents (usually called monasteries in translation) and Bible society buildings. Further complicating things is that the attacks continued beyond Wednesday.

But 50 churches and associated buildings seems to be a commonly agreed number.
We should be supporting the military and in fact help them. Astonishing as it is, we have been involved in “:everything” in the middle east, nothing worked out.
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And I wish Americans would understand that all of this creates hatred towards Americans.
The US cannot go around meddling in everyone’s business without repercussions. Look at Kosovo. The Serbians and many Orthodox hate America for what she did there, yet, YET, you never hear Muslims thanking America for that action. So what did America gain?
 
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