EGYPT - Egypt, Muslim Brotherhood assaults 22 Christian churches [AN]

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By the end of a second day of attacks on Christian institutions, homes, and businesses in Egypt, Islamists had burned down over 50 churches, a Coptic Orthodox bishop told CNN.The …

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Muslim Brotherhood called for mass protests today. Another bad day is expected.
 
Darryl1958 said:
Christians have always been persecuted in the House of Islam—Egypt too. Dhimmitude is as old as the Koran.

It doesn’t mean that Muslims don’t kill other Muslims, or it doesn’t discount that there are all kinds of ethnic/tribal/cultural/religious divisions that give reasons for violence. It doesn’t discount that tribalism prevails in the Arab world even now.

The fact that there are a whole host of reasons that Muslims kill others was tangential to the point that Iraq ought to have been a wake up call to what enabling an Islamist Middle East is going to bring about.

Iraq really ought to have served as a wake up call, and informed foreign policy.
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Your still avoiding my points in regards to Iraq being a “wake up call” for what happens when a secular government or regime is removed from power in a ME state. Avoiding them so much that you have now started using generalizations and have completely dropped any reference to secular governments. Additionally, Iraq’s current government isn’t Islamist (Iran’s is, but from some reason you don’t seem to want to use it as an example of persecution of non-Muslims).

The only thing Iraq serves as a “wake up call” for is that you can’t just go in and remove a regime without a long term plan on stabilizing the state afterwards. And given the vast differences between the two states (Iraq and Egypt) in regards to history, culture, population makeup, etc, it’s a little naive to think you can use one as an example/comparison for the other.
 
There they go again, now in egypt. These Sons of Ayesha bakri wahabi, salafi, takfiris come in many forms. These takfiri sons of Ayesha will not leave humanity live in peace. The sons of Ayesha follow their Emrpress Ayesha in killing muslims and non muslims a like.

These wahabi bakri’s ideology of burning churches, mosques, house of workships comes from Omer (Paul in our religion) and specially from Ayesha that killed our Prophet Mohammed and terrorized, killed and torturred Basra residents of the time along with Talha and Zubair on way to kill Imam Ali.

The so called muslim brotherhood are Ayesha the satanist worshipping satan brotherhood. The same ‘Ayesha brigade’ (sons of Ayesha) have claimed and acknowledged responsibilty of yesterday’s car bomb in beruit suburbs.
 
The Egyptian army will finance the restoration of the damaged churches, “as a sign of gratitude for the historic and patriotic merits of the Coptic brothers”:
blogcopte.fr/2013/08/15/les-autorites-prendront-en-charge-la-restauration-des-eglises-incendiees/
madamasr.com/content/sisi-military-restore-mosque-churches-damaged-wednesday-violence

Reaction of a priest:
twitter.com/adamakary/status/368042613754302464

Reasons why the islamists have attacked churches, explained by Morsi’s political party:
mbinenglish.wordpress.com/2013/08/16/fjp-helwan-facebook-page-on-church-attacks/
 
oldcatholicguy said:
what happens when a secular government or regime is removed.
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By its own people? You have the END of tyranny. A lesson we should pay close attention to. Its how democracy indeed works.

These people in Egypt by majority do not want sharia law. Its that simple. They made up their minds, these art the SAME people we were helping “before” the MB, who we supported, and were quickly bounced for their terrorist agenda.

I guess Obama only backs terrorists. Odd he managed to get the word “Church” to come out of his mouth yesterday…
 
GaryTaylor said:
Yes we should. 👍
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Only if you place your nation’s interests above the teachings of your faith (remove morality and legality from the discussion and just focus on the political/power aspects and it’s in our nation’s best interest to keep the military in power)

or

you think the Church teaches that it’s ok to ignore the immoral acts of and give support to Bad Guy A because he is against Bad Guy B. If this were a 1950s Western, both the MB and the Egyptian military would be wearing black hats.
 
oldcatholicguy said:
Only if you place your nation’s interests above the teachings of your faith (remove morality and legality from the discussion and just focus on the political/power aspects and it’s in our nation’s best interest to keep the military in power)

or

you think the Church teaches that it’s ok to ignore the immoral acts of and give support to Bad Guy A because he is against Bad Guy B. If this were a 1950s Western, both the MB and the Egyptian military would be wearing black hats.
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What bad guy? The MB is the bad guy. And yes we should be backing the already established military

The Church isn’t involved, obviously the President could care less about dead Christians.
 
GaryTaylor said:
What bad guy? The MB is the bad guy. And yes we should be backing the already established military

The Church isn’t involved, obviously the President could care less about dead Christians.
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Any organization that has a long history of using torture, disproportionate force and violence, “disappearing” people, engaging in repressive activities in order to maintain political power, and indiscriminately opening fire on civilians is a “bad guy” in my book. But, I’m one of those silly people who determines who is or is not a “bad guy” based on the actions of the person/individual, not on the faith of their victims.
 
oldcatholicguy said:
Any organization that has a long history of using torture, disproportionate force and violence, “disappearing” people, engaging in repressive activities in order to maintain political power, and indiscriminately opening fire on civilians is a “bad guy” in my book. But, I’m one of those silly people who determines who is or is not a “bad guy” based on the actions of the person/individual, not on the faith of their victims.
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Well Im talking not about sending 1st Cav and the Marines in, but geez, its suicide by military there. That’s all that is, and innocents being killed. The military is provoked and attempting to slow the slaughter of innocents by offensive force is an absolute.

We should be supporting them, because of our interest in the canal among our terrible habit of selling military weapons to them. Two good reasons why if you can’t say something good, than Obama should shut up. He’s buying time and doesn’t know which way this is going, so he should be quiet.
 
GaryTaylor said:
Well Im talking not about sending 1st Cav and the Marines in, but geez, its suicide by military there. That’s all that is, and innocents being killed. The military is provoked and attempting to slow the slaughter of innocents by offensive force is an absolute.

We should be supporting them, because of our interest in the canal among our terrible habit of selling military weapons to them. Two good reasons why if you can’t say something good, than Obama should shut up. He’s buying time and doesn’t know which way this is going, so be should he quiet.
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-The Egyptian military has been engaging in immoral acts long before the “Arab Spring” or this latest round of protests.

-The means (torture, “disappearings,” indiscriminate shooting, etc) are not justified by the ends (stopping the same behavior by the MB).

-We keep sending military weapons to the Egyptian military because of it’s in our nation’s strategic/political interests to keep them in power regardless of how repressive or immoral they are. This is a hold over from our “the ends justify the means” approach to defeating the Soviet Union (and it’s dependents) we used during the Cold War.

-The only people we should be supporting in Egypt are the innocent victims, those trying to peacefully and/or morally change their government, and the organizations calling for a moral approach to resolving the violence.
 
oldcatholicguy said:
-The Egyptian military has been engaging in immoral acts long before the “Arab Spring” or this latest round of protests.

-The means (torture, “disappearings,” indiscriminate shooting, etc) are not justified by the ends (stopping the same behavior by the MB).

-We keep sending military weapons to the Egyptian military because of it’s in our nation’s strategic/political interests to keep them in power regardless of how repressive or immoral they are. This is a hold over from our “the ends justify the means” approach to defeating the Soviet Union (and it’s dependents) we used during the Cold War.

-The only people we should be supporting in Egypt are the innocent victims, those trying to peacefully and/or morally change their government, and the organizations calling for a moral approach to resolving the violence.
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I agree, depends what we mean by support, 😃 The MB is outright despicable, but then why would we expect anything else.

Those innocent victims will be continued to be hung out there for all to see. Its psychological warfare and part of the ultimate vision of Islamic terrorists.
 
GraceSofia said:
(Coptic) Bishop Anba Suriel tweeted, “It is becoming clear that this is a planned and systemic attack by the MB against the Copts and their churches in Egypt. May God help us!”

Tallying the destruction
More than 40 churches were attacked. Including Coptic, Greek Orthodox, Catholic, and Anglican.

In Egypt, Media Sympathizes with Muslim Brotherhood, Persecution of Christians Ignored

Only steel bars saved Suez priest, family
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So it is the Morsi supporters (that group of 250,000) who have been sitting in the square for weeks now who have just been dispersed this week who are killing the Christians and not the military government.

It is the muslim military government who is killing the Morsi supporters as they try to break up the crowds?

Is there any agreement on these thread on who is killing whom?

Funny I don’t get much news free but I get EWTN and Catholic TV and Al-Jazeera English free.
 
gam197 said:
So it is the Morsi supporters (that group of 250,000) who have been sitting in the square for weeks now who have just been dispersed this week who are killing the Christians and not the military government.

It is the muslim military government who is killing the Morsi supporters as they try to break up the crowds?

Is there any agreement on these thread on who is killing whom?

Funny I don’t get much news free but I get EWTN and Catholic TV and Al-Jazeera English free.
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Morsi supporters either belong to or agree with the Muslim Brotherhood. They are the ones attacking Christian churches. They are also the ones (probably not necessarily the exact same people) who were in the two major “sit ins” over the last few weeks.

I put “sit ins” in quotes because they eventually started to look like armed camps, complete with stockpiles of stones for “ammunition”, home made catapults, guard towers and reinforced walls for protection. “Protesters” from these camps in the latter days of the camps actually used them as base camps as they went out and attempted to assault government buildings.

The current Egyptian government is the military (they conducted a coup a few weeks ago.) The military government overran the camps this week and in doing so 500-1,000 people died (mostly protesters although some police died as well.)

This is the start of what will amount to a civil war (or at least civil unrest) in Egypt that may last a few months. The Muslim Brotherhood has pronounced itself the enemy of the current government and are asking those who agree with them to fight the current government until there is an Islamic state in Egypt. They may tone down their demands as the days progress, but that is where we are now.

Christians in Egypt are in the middle of the cross fire, a lot of churches are being burned. The oldest one dates from 300AD

The West has condemned the action of the Egyptian government. Russia, Saudi Arabia and the UAE support it. (which means our leverage has been marginalized.)

Here is what is happening today
cnn.com/2013/08/16/world/meast/egypt-protests/index.html
 
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