Either Catholics or Mormons have it right...

[KathleenGee]

There is a thread out now about ‘baptist minister and book of Mormon’…to that effect, and a link is given discerning who actually wrote the book of Mormon plus some additional background on Joseph Smith and his fellow developers.

 

[Miriam1947]

link

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=519731&highlight=baptist+minister+book+of+Mormon

 

[KathleenGee]

Thanks, Miriam…

Now a reference to animal sacrifice is coming out on the same thread…

It keeps coming and coming and coming…can’t buy into any of it. I encountered someone about 10 years ago…on the exterior…looked like a traditional Catholic, but was into occult on the side to the point of animal sacrifice…very convincing…knew how to justify one’s actions to a t…but a fraud and was also one charged with falsifying documents.

 

[KathleenGee]

Rebecca…

John Paul II talks about people having different kinds of soils that bear different fruits…there are people out there who will forever be drawn to the wiles of Mormonism and forever reject Catholicism…

It is sad when you can see this happening with families…the fellow who is now alleged to have written the Book of Mormon also had a great disagreement and rejection of his ideas by members of his own family.

John Paul II said in essence it is a mystery.

It breaks my heart to see people continue to rationalize Mormonism in spite of so much to the contrary…I keep them now more in my prayers. God bless them.

 

[Javl]

This is another example of mis-characterization or character assassination, In my readings on Smith, I found that he stated, “The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it” Where does polygamy play in that? What does appendage mean to you? It would appear that Jesus Christ is the center of their religion according to Smith.

The fundamental principles of “your” religion have changed since its inception according to what I have read of the original BoM and the latest issue. As for polygamy, it played a very major role, until recently, in the LDS Church. And as for Jesus Christ, it is only of late that He is the center.

Oh, as far as polygamy, have you read any of the Old Testament? Mormons are correct in stating that even the greatest prophets practiced polygamy. This is a non-issue. It may be a topic to sensationalize and scandalize to the ignorant, but anyone that knows the Bible must conclude God doesn’t really care. If He did, the prophets would not have been prophets.

From what I have read of the Judaeo-Christian scriptures, there were no prophets that were polygamous. Individuals yes, such as David and Solomon, but prophets, none. It may be a non-issue for you but God Himself warned against polygamy in His Decalog. The mitzvahs of The Law prohibit it. I suggest that you re-read the scriptures carefully.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[ParkerD]

…
From what I have read of the Judaeo-Christian scriptures, there were no prophets that were polygamous. Individuals yes, such as David and Solomon, but prophets, none. …
Shalom Aleichem

JAVL,

So I gather from your (name removed by moderator)ut here that you don’t think of Abraham as a prophet, nor of Jacob (Israel) as a prophet, nor of Moses as a prophet since he had more than one wife also?

This would indeed be a puzzling position to take from the standpoint of the Old Testament.

 

[Javl]

Originally Posted by rmcmullan

It’s true we believe there was an Apostacy. Neither of us can prove to one another’s satisfaction the superiority of our position. Our faith in our church’s teaching does not convince each other of their authority.

We Christians cannot accept Mormonism as true or holding the truth since it is a man made religion. Its precepts, at times by its own admission, have changed down through the years. It is like the Big Brother of Geogre Orwell’s novel of “1984” with its “doublethink”: what was true yesterday is false today and what is true today can be false tomorrow.

If the LDS Church was the “true and restored Church of Jesus Christ”, then believe me when I say that I would become a Mormon in an instant. But, from what I have learned of the LDS Church, I say “no thanks, I don’t want any”.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Javl]

JimDandy,

Believe what you want but you’re on notice. You are intentionally mis-interpreting LDS scriptures to support a very belligerent and provocative intrepretation. At first I gave you the benefit of the doubt but you seem intent on doing this.

I do not post this in defense of Jim Dandy. I strongly urge you mcmullan to not only read but study the entire un-expurgated history and “scripture” of the LDS Church. There are many original and untouched or unchanged teachings which were the original beliefs and “theology” of the LDS Church, available. These are available on line and in the archives of many libraries and also in the archives of many religious colleges.

I am at present reading the History of the LDS Church by B.S. Roberts ( Vol I of VII volumes ) and I am amazed at the claims made which so far have not been substantiated.

This seems to be opposite of the History of Christianity from its founding by Jesus and which all of its claims are substantiated not only by history but the sciences as well.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Javl]

JAVL,

So I gather from your (name removed by moderator)ut here that you don’t think of Abraham as a prophet, nor of Jacob (Israel) as a prophet, nor of Moses as a prophet since he had more than one wife also?

This would indeed be a puzzling position to take from the standpoint of the Old Testament.

No. They are not considered true prophets, but in the category of The Elders, Judges, etc. The Prophets are Ezekiel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc. The LDS assign the title of Prophet to whomever they want.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Jim_Dandy]

catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0305fea4.asp

Miriam, thank you! I was unaware of this superb article.

Since this link is a continuation (part 2), I looked up part 1. It concentrates on Joseph Smith himself. These both should be read by every Mormon and by anyone inquiring into Mormonism. Here the link to part 1:

catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0304fea3.asp

These are the best articles/summaries I’ve ever read on Mormonism – they cover the really important facts in a minimum of words.

The author, Brian W. Harrison from Australia, is a former Protestant who is now a Catholic priest and theologian. His work can be found on the Roman Theological Forum. He wrote about how he discerned which church he should join in two other articles:

Logic and the Foundation of Protestantism
ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/FR90302.HTM

Why I Am Not Eastern Orthodox
catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0504bt.asp

Jim Dandy

 

[ParkerD]

No. They are not considered true prophets, but in the category of The Elders, Judges, etc. The Prophets are Ezekiel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc. The LDS assign the title of Prophet to whomever they want.

Shalom Aleichem

JAVL,

Now I’ve learned something new about either Catholics in general or about your belief in particular. Moses received the Ten Commandments, had the burning bush experience, led the children of Israel out of bondage–yet he wasn’t a prophet? Abraham was given covenant promises that in his seed all the world would be blessed–yet he wasn’t a prophet?

OK–if that’s your belief, then no Biblical passage to the contrary is going to dissuade you.

 

[Miriam1947]

Miriam, thank you! I was unaware of this superb article.

Since this link is a continuation (part 2), I looked up part 1. It concentrates on Joseph Smith himself. These both should be read by every Mormon and by anyone inquiring into Mormonism. Here the link to part 1:

catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0304fea3.asp

These are the best articles/summaries I’ve ever read on Mormonism – they cover the really important facts in a minimum of words.

The author, Brian W. Harrison from Australia, is a former Protestant who is now a Catholic priest and theologian. His work can be found on the Roman Theological Forum. He wrote about how he discerned which church he should join in two other articles:

Logic and the Foundation of Protestantism
ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/FR90302.HTM

Why I Am Not Eastern Orthodox
catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0504bt.asp

Jim Dandy

Jim, thanks for the thanks and thank you so much for the links.

I read them all. There is just so much great information here.

 

[RebeccaJ]

“The prophets and the law.”…referred to several time by Jesus. What do Mormons think Jesus, a Jew, is referring to?

For Jews and Christians, it is how what we call the OT is divided up. The Pentateuch contains the Law…Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy.

More here

gbgm-umc.org/umw/bible/tanakh.stm

 

[KathleenGee]

Parker,

Do you read the links the Catholics share…? They are good. I don’t mean to point them out to you in a competitive way…or in regards to other Mormons…

As always, mine and others intent, is that we all be ONE IN THE LORD!

I want all of us to be members of God’s family here on earth, especially America with all the fractured Christianity.

 

[ParkerD]

Parker,

Do you read the links the Catholics share…? They are good. I don’t mean to point them out to you in a competitive way…or in regards to other Mormons…

As always, mine and others intent, is that we all be ONE IN THE LORD!

I want all of us to be members of God’s family here on earth, especially America with all the fractured Christianity.

Kathleen,

If you’re talking about the ones shared recently on this thread “about Mormonism”, I read some of those and of course wasn’t impressed, as anyone familiar with either Mormonism and its teachings or with my own responses to much of the unimpressive and unstudied material that person had written.

But yes, I’ve read a few good Catholic links, and appreciated them.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Rebecca…

John Paul II talks about people having different kinds of soils that bear different fruits…there are people out there who will forever be drawn to the wiles of Mormonism and forever reject Catholicism…

It is sad when you can see this happening with families…the fellow who is now alleged to have written the Book of Mormon also had a great disagreement and rejection of his ideas by members of his own family.

John Paul II said in essence it is a mystery.

It breaks my heart to see people continue to rationalize Mormonism in spite of so much to the contrary…I keep them now more in my prayers. God bless them.

Yes, but Mormons think the more that their own non-member families disagree with them, the more it shows they’re right and everyone else is wrong. Any attempt by a family to show how screwed up Mormonism is, is viewed as “anti-Mormon”. They affirm this type of thinking with each other, continually, and often.

It is a cult-like behavior.

I just read a Mormon missionary letter from a family member who is in eastern Europe. Someone they are trying to baptize he is calling anti-Mormon because she had questions, along the sort of topics that come up here. It’s all about numbers for them. They’re trying to reach a annual quota and this woman backing out of getting baptized is risking meeting a certain number of baptisms by Dec. 31st. They are pressuring her to be baptized at Christmas! Yet, saying she has all these issues with what they are teaching.

I really don’t know how they live with themselves.

 

[Javl]

JAVL,

Now I’ve learned something new about either Catholics in general or about your belief in particular. Moses received the Ten Commandments, had the burning bush experience, led the children of Israel out of bondage–yet he wasn’t a prophet? Abraham was given covenant promises that in his seed all the world would be blessed–yet he wasn’t a prophet?

OK–if that’s your belief, then no Biblical passage to the contrary is going to dissuade you.

The LDS name whomever they please as a prophet. This is one point where Mormanism and Christianity differ.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[ParkerD]

The LDS name whomever they please as a prophet. This is one point where Mormonism and “Christianity” (i.e. Catholicism) differ.

Shalom Aleichem

JAVL,

I don’t think that is a subject that becomes a strength of Catholicism, since the Bible gives ample definition of the “spirit of prophecy” and the roles of prophets, and Moses was very comfortable with the use of the word “prophet”. Just because the Jews in general have not understood the word and that has continued in the way you have mentioned, does not mean Moses didn’t understand the word.

The prophecy of the coming of Christ that used the words “a prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me” was referring back to Moses with the word “me”, and was saying that he was a prophet.

Here are pertinent verses about that link back to Moses:

Deuteronomy 18:15
The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

Acts 3:22
For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

Acts 7:37
This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

 

[Stephen168]

From what I have read of the Judaeo-Christian scriptures, there were no prophets that were polygamous.

I think this would only matter if Joseph Smith claimed to be restoring Judaism, but he claimed to be restoring the Church of Christ

A Christian has not and would not practice polygamy. A person seeking the truth would question a religion invented in 19th century American which claims to be a restored Christian Church. Polygamy is an example of why that claim is false.

 

[Stephen168]

This would indeed be a puzzling position to take from the standpoint of the Old Testament.

Christianity is a New Testament religion. Christ fulfilled the law. Christ and the Apostles were not polygamist. Catholic Bishops are not married. Christ and the Twelve Apostles were not married. Catholics have it right.