Election over, administration unleashes new rules

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There is way too much belittling and name calling going on in this thread. I have started to suspend users and I will continue if it keeps up.
 
I see a few claims that people daring to defend your democratically elected president on this thread are ‘angry’. There’s LOTS and LOTS of anger all right…I can feel the heat and the scorn…ouch! But it sounds like RIGHT-wing anger and self righteousness to me. I detect some anti-European feeling too? People left Europe for all sorts of reasons - originally for religious freedom. They don’t need to do THAT now - perhaps religious freedom is something WE have more of now??
Yeah because Europe is done so well with its economy :rolleyes:
 
Well, liberals do throw a tantrum every time they don’t get their way.
Yelling and crying is a tantrum, liberals do much worst than that I am afraid 😦
Tolerance for everyone unless you disagree with them.
 
Up until about 10 years ago my family’s livelihood was very much tied to coal. The mine closed, and my stepfather decided to go in to law enforcement.

But I’m not a selfish person. I don’t think that we should reject newer, cleaner forms of energy because it might hurt someone’s job. Yeah, it sucks now, but I’m looking to my children and grandchildren’s future.
We shouldn’t reject newer forms of energy, but we also shouldn’t subsidize them, or punish the existing industries into extinction (which was the initial intent of this thread).

You mentioned “detracting” from society. How does the coal miner, power plant worker, or oil rig roughneck do that?

At the same time, we have stories like this:

watchdog.org/62420/co-secret-energy-lab-spawns-million-dollar-govt-employee/
 
What pray, is wrong with having laws for the health and safety of workers?
The problem is that we have lost our constitutional checks and balances. Laws are supposed to be passed by legislature, not dictated by a monarch. Laws that do not affect other states were supposed to be passed by the individual legislature, not the president. There is no longer a proper balance on the power of the president which has evolved into an elected dictator.

To the victor belongs the spoiling and pilaging.
 
They don’t need to do THAT now - perhaps religious freedom is something WE have more of now??
I think a strong argument could be made for that position. We surely have a lot less religious freedom than we used to and it is decreasing every generation.
 
I’m sure that you are aware that scrubbers make coal production the cleanest that it’s ever been. Three of my wife’s and my grandmothers lived into their 90’s, and they grew up in the WORST of the coal smog times. Please don’t let the socialist propagandists persuade you. Your kids will be just fine, no matter the energy source. What they won’t survive is Soviet-style government control of their lives, unless they themselves join the leftists.
It is a bit amusing to me that your step-dad became a law enforcer, the likes of which are very much needed when the economy of a town collapses.
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

I don’t know which is funnier, the idea that we are headed towards a Soviet-style government, or the idea that my very small, midwestern town fell into a state of total lawlessness and needed more cops.

Nope, the old Sheriff was retiring and my stepfather had been a military cop decades before, and since he’d been born and raised in that town he knew everyone and was elected easily.
 
Amen. Get over it already.
This doesn’t even make sense. You don’t like people discussing relevant world news in the world news forum, so you tell them to “get over it?”

So what things that the President of the United States does are allowed to be discussed?
 
Just bitter grapes. I actually get a kick out of it.
Did you get a kick out of discussing things Bush, did, or things that happen around the world, or simply discussing Obama? Why is anyone but him fair game? I would think discussing a US President’s initiatives (not even into his second term) would be fine?

Do the topics on the fiscal cliff bother you? Or the ones that address corporate layoffs?
 
I think that most people on this thread are missing the big picture. Obama and his ilk are nothing more than very slick secularist socialists, whose aim is to transform the USA into a “Socialist Paradise”. Since the people on OB’s staff are true believers, this makes them more dangerous than mere fanatics.
The purpose of all of these various regulations is not to save the environment, or controll abusive business practices. Just as the purpose of shoving abortion and contreception and recognition of gay marriage down the throats of religious institions is not for equality.
The real purpose for all of this is to promote a total collapse of society and the economy as we know it today. Very to the socio-economic collapse that occurred in the US from 1929-1933/4.
These Obamaist socialists then feel they can re-construct American Society according to their socialist principles. They know that they could never get any of this through legislation, so they will do it by bureaucratic fiat. They feel they can get away with it because there really is no one in congress with either the guts or the power to stop them.
And the public will not react against them until it is too late, because they have been and are being fed a daily diet of Obama propaganda.
The few people who dare speak up against them are branded as racists, or tea partyites, or old fuddy duddies who are not progressive. The populace seems to forget that the word progressive is a modern euphonism for socialist.
Sir your extremist opinions which a sound 53/54%, and if the complete truth of the matter were known many more, of the electorate certainly disagree with your radical speak. Peace, Carlan
 
Sir your extremist opinions which a sound 53/54%, and if the complete truth of the matter were known many more, of the electorate certainly disagree with your radical speak. Peace, Carlan
Does anyone really believe the majority of voters had a clear idea what they were voting for or against? Let’s be honest about this. If you had asked most voters what their vote would mean to employment in the coal industry; how it would affect coal-mining areas’ economies and how it would affect utility costs, probably not one out of a hundred could have given a coherent answer.

And if you asked most voters how the regulatory system works, they would not be able to tell you.

So, let’s not appeal to the election results to support propositions that ought to rise or fall on their own merits. After all, the majority of the electorate supports at least some curbs on abortion-on-demand, yet voted for the most abortion-promoting president in the history of this country and perhaps in the current world.
 
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

I don’t know which is funnier, the idea that we are headed towards a Soviet-style government, or the idea that my very small, midwestern town fell into a state of total lawlessness and needed more cops.
I have to wonder why you think that is so funny? We have a government that can legally spy on its own citizens, incarcerate them without charges, search their homes without warrants, and dictate food, fuel and health care. What is left?
 
Does anyone really believe the majority of voters had a clear idea what they were voting for or against? Let’s be honest about this. If you had asked most voters what their vote would mean to employment in the coal industry; how it would affect coal-mining areas’ economies and how it would affect utility costs, probably not one out of a hundred could have given a coherent answer.

And if you asked most voters how the regulatory system works, they would not be able to tell you.
So, let’s not appeal to the election results to support propositions that ought to rise or fall on their own merits. After all, the majority of the electorate supports at least some curbs on abortion-on-demand, yet voted for the most abortion-promoting president in the history of this country and perhaps in the current world
Yes, of course you are correct to admonish me, for not being more specific in the post you are commenting on especially concerning your quote above.
In my own election choice i did not vote for President Obama because of his position on pro-choice, or his other moral issues on disordered behavior choices.I chose him because I believe he has governed with the common good of our people upper most in his mind and that he is going to continue to do so,I firmly believe he puts our Country and her needs above all else to the best of his ability.
Although I am a practicing Catholic I am a sinner have struggled with obedience and I am at sixes and sevens many times when it comes to discernment about many things.
Mea, Culpa!
Peace, Carlan
 
Yes, of course you are correct to admonish me, for not being more specific in the post you are commenting on especially concerning your quote above.
In my own election choice i did not vote for President Obama because of his position on pro-choice, or his other moral issues on disordered behavior choices.I chose him because I believe he has governed with the common good of our people upper most in his mind and that he is going to continue to do so,I firmly believe he puts our Country and her needs above all else to the best of his ability.
Although I am a practicing Catholic I am a sinner have struggled with obedience and I am at sixes and sevens many times when it comes to discernment about many things.
Mea, Culpa!
Peace, Carlan
Interesting. If one assumes (against all objective evidence to the contrary, though that’s another subject) that Obama really has proven beneficial to the country in the past four years in economic or perhaps international terms, one still has to consider the moral price one pays for supporting him.

In doing so, one must decide what negatives one affirms and perpetrates. Could one in knowledge of the facts, have morally supported Mussolini, who murdered many, on the grounds that he reduced unemployment and made the trains run on time? Many Italians thought so. Could one have supported Lenin, who caused millions to die of starvation, on the grounds that, by taking away all of the peasants’ grain he improved the diet of factory workers in the cities? Many Russians thought so.

It seems clear that we could not morally do such things, because supporting profound evils in order to achieve material benefits, especially marginal ones, can never be the moral choice.

And so, when we promote abortion by supporting its promoters, for whatever reason (real or only supposed) we have to consider the balance in moral terms. Making a decision based on purely pragmatic criteria (what’s in it for me or for some socioeconomic class) is fundamentally pagan, not Catholic or even Christian.

Americans have (choose to have) at least a partial blindness when it comes to abortion. Because children are invisible except to ultrasound prior to birth, we discount their lives and their humanity. But we shouldn’t, any more than we should discount the life of a person in the next room who we can’t see. If Obama had proposed support for killing a million two-year-olds per year, we would recoil from him as we would from Dracula, no matter what benefits he promised us. But we choose to equate invisibility with non-existence or non-humanity precisely because we are encouraged by the merchants of death to see it that way, despite the fact that we know full well it’s a falsehood. We take comfort in the lie.

And so, we are corrupted into being accomplices to murder as sure as if we handed the knife to one who wanted it to slit the throats of two-year-olds.

That’s how the Church sees it and, in truth, that’s how any rational human being should see it.

And that’s without even considering the violation of conscience and profanation of marriage for which Obama stands.

One of the most quoted lines in “MacBeth” is where MacBeth considers his bloody past and whether he should repent or go to greater crimes. Paraphrasing, it goes like this: “I am in blood stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, to return would be more tedious than to go o’er.” In other words, there is a point in evildoing where a person’s resolve to abandon it seems more difficult than to continue in it. As the end of “MacBeth” makes clear, that is a formula for self-deceit and, in the end, (let’s say it) damnation. Not to get overly literary here, but that’s precisely the reason Shakespeare has MacBeth incited, initially, by witches; consorts of the father of lies.

One of the real blessings of Catholicism is that confession and true repentence allow one to return. One is not required by one’s prior acts to “go o’er”. One is not required to struggle with the lies.
 
Interesting. If one assumes (against all objective evidence to the contrary, though that’s another subject) that Obama really has proven beneficial to the country in the past four years in economic or perhaps international terms, one still has to consider the moral price one pays for supporting him.

In doing so, one must decide what negatives one affirms and perpetrates. Could one in knowledge of the facts, have morally supported Mussolini, who murdered many, on the grounds that he reduced unemployment and made the trains run on time? Many Italians thought so. Could one have supported Lenin, who caused millions to die of starvation, on the grounds that, by taking away all of the peasants’ grain he improved the diet of factory workers in the cities? Many Russians thought so.

It seems clear that we could not morally do such things, because supporting profound evils in order to achieve material benefits, especially marginal ones, can never be the moral choice.

And so, when we promote abortion by supporting its promoters, for whatever reason (real or only supposed) we have to consider the balance in moral terms. Making a decision based on purely pragmatic criteria (what’s in it for me or for some socioeconomic class) is fundamentally pagan, not Catholic or even Christian.

Americans have (choose to have) at least a partial blindness when it comes to abortion. Because children are invisible except to ultrasound prior to birth, we discount their lives and their humanity. But we shouldn’t, any more than we should discount the life of a person in the next room who we can’t see. If Obama had proposed support for killing a million two-year-olds per year, we would recoil from him as we would from Dracula, no matter what benefits he promised us. But we choose to equate invisibility with non-existence or non-humanity precisely because we are encouraged by the merchants of death to see it that way, despite the fact that we know full well it’s a falsehood. We take comfort in the lie.

And so, we are corrupted into being accomplices to murder as sure as if we handed the knife to one who wanted it to slit the throats of two-year-olds.

That’s how the Church sees it and, in truth, that’s how any rational human being should see it.

And that’s without even considering the violation of conscience and profanation of marriage for which Obama stands.

One of the most quoted lines in “MacBeth” is where MacBeth considers his bloody past and whether he should repent or go to greater crimes. Paraphrasing, it goes like this: “I am in blood stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, to return would be more tedious than to go o’er.” In other words, there is a point in evildoing where a person’s resolve to abandon it seems more difficult than to continue in it. As the end of “MacBeth” makes clear, that is a formula for self-deceit and, in the end, (let’s say it) damnation. Not to get overly literary here, but that’s precisely the reason Shakespeare has MacBeth incited, initially, by witches; consorts of the father of lies.

One of the real blessings of Catholicism is that confession and true repentence allow one to return. One is not required by one’s prior acts to “go o’er”. One is not required to struggle with the lies.
Thanks for your speak,R.R. and eloquence.
I will simply say our merciful Lord God in his judgment of all his children will look into all the very deep recesses of every individual soul…
Peace, Carlan
 
Interesting. If one assumes (against all objective evidence to the contrary, though that’s another subject) that Obama really has proven beneficial to the country in the past four years in economic or perhaps international terms, one still has to consider the moral price one pays for supporting him.

In doing so, one must decide what negatives one affirms and perpetrates. Could one in knowledge of the facts, have morally supported Mussolini, who murdered many, on the grounds that he reduced unemployment and made the trains run on time? Many Italians thought so. Could one have supported Lenin, who caused millions to die of starvation, on the grounds that, by taking away all of the peasants’ grain he improved the diet of factory workers in the cities? Many Russians thought so.

It seems clear that we could not morally do such things, because supporting profound evils in order to achieve material benefits, especially marginal ones, can never be the moral choice.

And so, when we promote abortion by supporting its promoters, for whatever reason (real or only supposed) we have to consider the balance in moral terms. Making a decision based on purely pragmatic criteria (what’s in it for me or for some socioeconomic class) is fundamentally pagan, not Catholic or even Christian.

Americans have (choose to have) at least a partial blindness when it comes to abortion. Because children are invisible except to ultrasound prior to birth, we discount their lives and their humanity. But we shouldn’t, any more than we should discount the life of a person in the next room who we can’t see. If Obama had proposed support for killing a million two-year-olds per year, we would recoil from him as we would from Dracula, no matter what benefits he promised us. But we choose to equate invisibility with non-existence or non-humanity precisely because we are encouraged by the merchants of death to see it that way, despite the fact that we know full well it’s a falsehood. We take comfort in the lie.

And so, we are corrupted into being accomplices to murder as sure as if we handed the knife to one who wanted it to slit the throats of two-year-olds.

That’s how the Church sees it and, in truth, that’s how any rational human being should see it.

And that’s without even considering the violation of conscience and profanation of marriage for which Obama stands.

One of the most quoted lines in “MacBeth” is where MacBeth considers his bloody past and whether he should repent or go to greater crimes. Paraphrasing, it goes like this: “I am in blood stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, to return would be more tedious than to go o’er.” In other words, there is a point in evildoing where a person’s resolve to abandon it seems more difficult than to continue in it. As the end of “MacBeth” makes clear, that is a formula for self-deceit and, in the end, (let’s say it) damnation. Not to get overly literary here, but that’s precisely the reason Shakespeare has MacBeth incited, initially, by witches; consorts of the father of lies.

One of the real blessings of Catholicism is that confession and true repentence allow one to return. One is not required by one’s prior acts to “go o’er”. One is not required to struggle with the lies.
We must also must keep in mind that the vote of one who supported Obama despite his support of unrestricted taxpayer-funded abortion on demand counts the same as a vote of one who voted for him because of his support for unrestricted taxpayer on demand and both votes support abject evil. There simply is no way that one can reconcile such a vote for the teachings of the catholic church. there is no amount of good a candidate can do to mitigate their support of abortion. such a person is morally unfit to hold any position of leadership and should never be supported by people who recognize abortion for the evil that it is
 
“ANGER”: What we saw on display yesterday, (except from media apparatchik arms such as CBS, ABC, NBC, CNN, etc), in Michigan, meted out in the form of violence by union goons, attacking those who opposed them. Yes, even to the point of destroying a large tent with women, children and handicapped persons inside. That’s “anger”, alright, but you lefties ignore this! :ehh: Rob
Interesting…I don’t think I’ve ever been called a leftie before!! I actually voted in our UK Conservative/Lib Dem coalition this time round and I have never yet voted Labour. It’s all relative isn’t it - perhaps this shows how far to the right the Republicans have gone?
I don’t like the extremes of either ‘side’.
 
As a former regulator myself, I don’t think most people realize tha power that Federal regulation gives to individuals who are not particularly smarter than any of the rest of us. And who, even as individuals, can interpret the thousands of pages of regulations issued by their agencies in a variety of ways, depending in part, on their own personal viewpoints and personal dedication to the letter of the regulation or not. Like Pharisees poring over the scriptures, one man’s interpretation is another man’s heresy.

One tiny example. A citizen came to my office once, holding a document issued by the same agency but in a different city. I looked at it. It was clearly wrong, and he needed it to be right. I had no authority to change it. I had personal knowledge of the way the agency worked in the other city. I knew that if the person sent it back to them, it would be months before it was looked at, might still not be corrected, and might disappear entirely. I took the document and corrected it myself and initialed it. That was not legal, but it was the right thing to do, and no one that he presented it to would question it. That’s just a minor thing. But I expect horror stories on regulatory matters to abound.
 
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