Election Results/Discussion

[gnjsdad]

I’m wondering why, as a Catholic, you didn’t support Santorum. Solid on life issues, good family man.

Santorum put personal ambition (becoming a big wheel in the Republican Party) above principle when he supported the pro-abortion Arlen Specter over the “solid on life issues” Pat Toomey a couple of years ago. That didn’t sit too well with a lot of pro-life Pennsylvanians.

As for his being a good family man, that is the least we Catholics ought to expect of our representatives. Bob Casey, I’m sure, is also a good family man. The next Republican Senate nominee, hopefully, will also be a good family man.

Rach620:

Also-- how is the term ‘Islamic fascism’ nonsensical?

Because it has no real meaning. It’s basically a cuss word, the meaning of which is I don’t like Muslims.

If you, or anyone, can provide the name of one self-professed “Islamic fascist”, I’ll retract my statement.

Rach620:

We’re talking about terrorists who ignore the value of reason in any sort of religious or political dialogue, following the violent commands of whatever version of God they are following.

There is no necessary correlation between people who adopt terrorist tactics and fascism. Also, there is no direct causal link between Islam and terrorism; likewise, Islam and fascism have had no historical correlation. A devout Muslim will recoil in disgust when he hears talk of “Islamic fascism” because fascism, a Western concept, is so alien to Islam.

Rach620:

If the shoe fits…

You haven’t shown at all that the shoe fits.

 

[CathCentrist]

Clinton created 911? I love this place! :whacky:

 

[StMarkEofE]

My my, where is the usual complaints of voting machine riggings and voting machine manipulations? Why, because the Dems won overwhelmingly. But, wait until the Republicans again gain precedence the Dems will come out of the closets and start howling again about how unfair the voting machines were just wait and see. At least the GOP accepts for the most part the results as they come in, but let the votes tilt the other way and there are investigations galore.

History was made this week! For the first time in four election cycles, Democrats are not attacking the Diebold Corp. the day after the election, accusing it of rigging its voting machines. I guess Diebold has finally been vindicated. http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon6.gif

 

[john1863]

The prolife movement suffered no setback. A movement to legislate morality in a secular nation…maybe. The true victory has always been about changing hearts…that fight will continue and eventually win.
Life will always triumph.
This from a Democrat who is very pleased with the election.

John

 

[steveandersen]

Actually, Bush is even worse than a ‘tax and spend’ liberal, he’s a ‘tax cut and spend’ conservative. Not only does he spend more money than the government takes in in revenues, but the he goes and reduces our revenues further.

yes

just heard a piece on the news that indicated that spending has gone up by 50% in th last 6 years and pork barrel projects went from 1,400 to 14,000
conservative family values my left foot
it snouts and trotters with these guys!

 

[MikeWM]

My my, where is the usual complaints of voting machine riggings and voting machine manipulations? Why, because the Dems won overwhelmingly.

You’re partly right, of course. Just because the result came out ok for the Democrats this time isn’t a reason to continue to complain long and loud about the principle of the thing.

Of course, in actual fact, it will be forgotten about now until the next election. That’s the way politics works, unfortunately, for pretty much any political party.

Mike

 

[john1863]

My my, where is the usual complaints of voting machine riggings and voting machine manipulations? Why, because the Dems won overwhelmingly.

We are not talking 583 votes…I’m from PA and Santorum lost 6 to 4…far worse than the polls indicated. I live in a county that almost always votes Republican despite a substantial Democratic majority in registration and Santorum lost by over 2.000 votes…of 10.000 cast.
This was not a close call…it was a classic whooping…
I took it in 1994… welcome to the machine.

John

 

[StMarkEofE]

We are not talking 583 votes…I’m from PA and Santorum lost 6 to 4…far worse than the polls indicated. I live in a county that almost always votes Republican despite a substantial Democratic majority in registration and Santorum lost by over 2.000 votes…of 10.000 cast.
This was not a close call…it was a classic whooping…
I took it in 1994… welcome to the machine.

John

Oh, you mean there wasnt any other balloting going on except for Pa and Santorum?

But lets hope that old Casey supports his Abortion thing as most Dems think he will. Excuseme, but did Casey change from RC to something else lately?

 

[john1863]

Purely an extremely relevant example. Gee…wasn’t he the # 3 Republican?
In reference to Mr. Casey, I guess you have a greater insight into another human’s soul than I.

John

 

[chicago]

My my, where is the usual complaints of voting machine riggings and voting machine manipulations?

Actually, I heard a lot yesterday about problems with touch screens around the country. And the complaints weren’t coming from Democrats.

Not to mention “Tony’s Hooligans” (Peracia, the Republican candidate for County Board President) here in Chicago who walked down Michigan Avenue and to the County Administration Building to “Protect the Ballots”. The problems we had with counting the votes (after spending 60 million dollars to resolve the same problem in the March Primary) was the height of incompetance.

At least the GOP accepts for the most part the results as they come in, but let the votes tilt the other way and there are investigations galore.

Not Tony.

suntimes.com/news/metro/128713,peraica110806.article

suntimes.com/news/128175,110706march.article

And let’s not forget that there’s a Virgina Senate seat which will likely not be sorted out for weeks.

History was made this week! For the first time in four election cycles, Democrats are not attacking the Diebold Corp. the day after the election, accusing it of rigging its voting machines. I guess Diebold has finally been vindicated. http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon6.gif

I don’t know about Diebold but the new companty sure seems to be in deep doo doo.

 

[StMarkEofE]

yes

just heard a piece on the news that indicated that spending has gone up by 50% in th last 6 years and pork barrel projects went from 1,400 to 14,000
conservative family values my left foot
it snouts and trotters with these guys!

Please keep in mind that the label Republican dosnt necessarily conote them being conservative. Most conservatives do favor the Republican mold but not in all cases. Ole Bush is a country club Republican more in line with the eastcoast Republicans like Giulliani. Im a conservative and it kills me to think that Bush didnt vetoe one blessed spending bill that came across his desk. This is NOT what conservatives put officials in office for. They look for fiscal responsibility and a reasonable spending program, not the one we have now in DC,

Oh, and while we are on the subject of “pork barrel”, the entire state of W. Virginia is dedicated to the pork barrel spending of Senator Byrd. The whole state reaks of his dedications and monuments to government spending.

 

[chicago]

Oh, and while we are on the subject of “pork barrel”, the entire state of W. Virginia is dedicated to the pork barrel spending of Senator Byrd. The whole state reaks of his dedications and monuments to government spending.

The worst thing about the Republicans losing the House is that we will no longer have the Speaker from the State of Illinois to bring home bacon.

Too bad Bill Lipinski ain’t still around now that the Dems control things. He’d be sitting on a very nice perch right about this time.

Well, at least Durbin’s in the power structure.

 

[Dee_Dee_King]

i hate to burst your bubble, but many great catholic thinkers are free-market economists. if you hate capitalism so much you can go live in a place like north korea to see what those conditions are like

i never said the church was opposed to the free market, they clearly support it. but they are opposed to lassiez faire economics as touted by the republican party and certain aspects of capitalism as practiced here. id rather consult the catechism of the catholic church and it’s many encyclicals on social justice to decide what the church teaches rather than what thomas woods says.

The following are also morally illicit: speculation in which one contrives to manipulate the price of goods artificially in order to gain an advantage to the detriment of others;

capitalism is defined by profit as ultimate end of economic activity

A theory that makes profit the exclusive norm and ultimate end of economic activity is morally unacceptable. The disordered desire for money cannot but produce perverse effects. It is one of the causes of the many conflicts which disturb the social order.203 A system that “subordinates the basic rights of individuals and of groups to the collective organization of production” is contrary to human dignity. 204 Every practice that reduces persons to nothing more than a means of profit enslaves man, leads to idolizing money, and contributes to the spread of atheism. "You cannot serve God and mammon."205

2425 …She has likewise refused to accept, in the practice of “capitalism,” individualism and the absolute primacy of the law of the marketplace over human labor.206 Regulating the economy solely by centralized planning perverts the basis of social bonds; regulating it solely by the law of the marketplace fails social justice, for "there are many human needs which cannot be satisfied by the market."207 Reasonable regulation of the marketplace and economic initiatives, in keeping with a just hierarchy of values and a view to the common good, is to be commended.

A just wage is the legitimate fruit of work. To refuse or withhold it can be a grave injustice.220 In determining fair pay both the needs and the contributions of each person must be taken into account. "Remuneration for work should guarantee man the opportunity to provide a dignified livelihood for himself and his family on the material, social, cultural and spiritual level, taking into account the role and the productivity of each, the state of the business, and the common good."221 Agreement between the parties is not sufficient to justify morally the amount to be received in wages.

as you can see, many of these teachings of the church are better represented by “liberals” or democrats. republicans have a poor track record when it comes to social justice. for instance, pay should also be based on needs and productivity.

 

[Ruthmary]

i never said the church was opposed to the free market, they clearly support it. but they are opposed to lassiez faire economics as touted by the republican party and certain aspects of capitalism as practiced here. id rather consult the catechism of the catholic church and it’s many encyclicals on social justice to decide what the church teaches rather than what thomas woods says. capitalism is defined by profit as ultimate end of economic activityas you can see, many of these teachings of the church are better represented by “liberals” or democrats. republicans have a poor track record when it comes to social justice. for instance, pay should also be based on needs and productivity.

Don’t you think that letting people keep more of their hard-earned money is social justice? With the Democrats in power our taxes will probably be going up next year. And the government shouldn’t be determining wages–the market should do that. A federally-mandated minimum wage sounds good, but will utlimately keep that large income tantalizingly out of reach. I know; I’ve been seeking it all my life. I’ve worked menial jobs all my life, and when I reached the magical goal of 10K a year, the cost of things went up just enough to keep them still out of my reach, so that my wage goal had to go up higher. Now at more than 20K a year, my dreams of 25 years ago should be all realized but they can’t be because the prices have risen correspondingly. It’s all smoke and mirrors.

Mr. Bush has encountered problems during his administration that could have crippled this country, but somehow his policies have kept the economy swimming.

I lived through the Carter administration, that great model of compassion for the poor, and his policies brought the economy to its knees. I don’t have time to list the problems this nation had–you can look them up. It took Reagan years to get the country back on its feet, but he managed to create a great economy by the end of his administration, besides having a lot to do with bringing down Communism.

Mr. Bush’s economy is a good one, and you can read about it at
whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2006/overview.html

OVERVIEW OF THE PRESIDENT’S 2006 BUDGET by the Office of Management and Budget

I was a Democrat when I was young, but after living through several administrations, I was able to see with my own eyes what each one brought to this country, and for my money, the Republicans have helped us the most.

 

[james1441]

i never said the church was opposed to the free market, they clearly support it. but they are opposed to lassiez faire economics as touted by the republican party and certain aspects of capitalism as practiced here. id rather consult the catechism of the catholic church and it’s many encyclicals on social justice to decide what the church teaches rather than what thomas woods says. capitalism is defined by profit as ultimate end of economic activityas you can see, many of these teachings of the church are better represented by “liberals” or democrats. republicans have a poor track record when it comes to social justice. for instance, pay should also be based on needs and productivity.

a true free-market system, so long as devoid of all govt. intervention, will always work to both the benefit on the consumer and the business.

 

[system]

My my, where is the usual complaints of voting machine riggings and voting machine manipulations? Why, because the Dems won overwhelmingly. But, wait until the Republicans again gain precedence the Dems will come out of the closets and start howling again about how unfair the voting machines were just wait and see. At least the GOP accepts for the most part the results as they come in, but let the votes tilt the other way and there are investigations galore.

History was made this week! For the first time in four election cycles, Democrats are not attacking the Diebold Corp. the day after the election, accusing it of rigging its voting machines. I guess Diebold has finally been vindicated. http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon6.gif

I heard this very speech today from a guy at work who listens to Rush Limbaugh at lunchtime…same words and everything.

Here’s a theory - the Dems hired better hackers?

Here’s another theory - as part of the Jack Abramoff / Ney / plea bargain, the Diebold machines had to actually work as programmed this year?

Oh well, let’s go back to “Clinton caused 911!” That crazy train was was funnier

 

[MikeinSD]

I live in PA and I don’t think Santorum even had a chance.

Well it’s midnight EST, and somehow this Virginia race just flipped and George Allen is now losing! That just happened in the last 30 minutes. Interesting. VA will have an automatic recount just for being this close. I think Allen is an offensive character. I did not feel any negatives about Santorum and/or Casey, but Allen is like something out of the 1880’s in race issues.

Jim Webb just took Virginia. Kudos to my native state. Dems now have both House and Senate.
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061109/ap_on_el_ge/election_rdp

Hope this election starts a new dialog across the country. President Bush and his advisors believed just rousing the Republican base would cement a conservative majority like in 2004. Well, it didn’t. Looks like, once again, getting the moderate (mushy middle if you prefer) vote counts in elections.

 

[MJE]

Brent Bozell stated on a c-span show earlier that 30% of the people who voted for Webb in VA also voted to support the marriage act in that state. His point was the disconnect between their candidate and their issues.
And Bob Casey jr is not pro life! He talks he is but he does not support legislation like banning the morning after pill, or stem cell research and he supports public funding for family planning. He rides on his dead fathers coattails. He is very concerned about seperation of church and state and wants religion out of the public square, school, etc. As tho PA is a theocracy?! Or the whole USA? The Father Frank Pavone’s of this world comes to mind. Someone said this afternoon that when PA realizes who & what their new senator is they will start looking for ‘the return department’.

 

[cathgal]

My main concern in any election, there or here, or anywhere else in the world is ABORTION !
Have the Democrats changed course on this ? which party offers the best protection for unborn children ?

Have they changed course??
Don’t you just wish they did.
Have you seen any of the state’s pro-life guide. Most of them are pro-death all the way thru!
With this lucky victory, they’re probably more confirmed on their pro-abort stance.
The only way is to get them off of the House and Senate!

 

[Dee_Dee_King]

a true free-market system, so long as devoid of all govt. intervention, will always work to both the benefit on the consumer and the business.

the church teaches that there should be reasonable regulation on the marketplace. this doesn’t necissarily have to be the federal government. i work of the government and know how it is intimately tied to big buisness

**regulating it solely by the law of the marketplace fails social justice, for “there are many human needs which cannot be satisfied by the market.”**207 Reasonable regulation of the marketplace and economic initiatives, in keeping with a just hierarchy of values and a view to the common good, is to be commended.

the marketplace without ***reasonable regulation ***is ruled by greed and objectifies people. unions and a higher minimum wage are two things supported by the church.

Don’t you think that letting people keep more of their hard-earned money is social justice? With the Democrats in power our taxes will probably be going up next year. And the government shouldn’t be determining wages–the market should do that. A federally-mandated minimum wage sounds good, but will utlimately keep that large income tantalizingly out of reach.

same issue, there must be regulation of the market. if not, it goes against what the church teaches. you have a problem with the catechism, not me. as for people keeping there hard earned money is fine as long as it is inaccordance with their productivity and need. the fact that the ceo of halliburton grossed over 42 million in 2004 is not just distribution of wealth when there so many poor in the world.

injustice to the wage earner is a serious a sin as sodomy.