Election Results/Discussion

[rlg94086]

Okay, if you say so…well now that the impeccable Democrats are in office, I’m sure there will be a whole lotta SCOTUS judicial impeachments goin’ on. They will probably double, maybe even triple the historical SCOTUS impeachments.

but that was my whole point. there have been dozens of court rulings in the last decades that were impeachable actions based on the fact that they overruled a state’s laws in violation of state’s rights and seperation of powers

 

[MikeWM]

It is not Christrian to rejoice in the election of members of the Democrat party,

When the only alternative is the Republican party, there’s nothing wrong at all in being pleased at the change.

Mike

 

[MikeWM]

Mike,

If you can actually show cause and effect, I prefer to judge it by that. Statistics tell you little or nothing. If you can’t determine the actual reason for the downturn/upturn, then you are going to repeat it.

I think actual action by elected officials, which translates to laws, is the only way to judge their effectiveness.

I agree that we should always be wary of false correlation, indeed that’s something I say here quite regularly on other issues.

Nevertheless, in a complex social issue like abortion, an effect to curb the wish for an abortion can occur from the philosophy of the government, even if the only legal way to demonstrate that is to cherry-pick things from many pieces of legislation - the legal way is not necessarily satisfactory enough. We know that Democrats and Republicans have different philosophies about what government should do and how it should work. The evidence we have from the last 20 years or so broadly implies that Democrats are better at reducing abortions than Republicans.

Is that a false correlation? Maybe. Am I keen to see it becuase in part it’s what I want to see? Most likely. But there won’t be an ‘Omnibus Act to reduce abortions’ to point to; there will be a number of social measures scattered across many different things the government does.

Mike

 

[Leeta]

Abortion is legal throughout the nine months due to two Supreme Court decisons in 1973, not due to any act of Congress. We still do not have enough pro-life Supreme Court justices to overturn it. Also, we could overturn it through an act of a super majority of both Houses of Congress or through a Constitutional amendment. But as long as you who say you are Christians??? vote not for ending abortion as your no. 1 issue, no Congress is going to pass an act removing abortion jurisdiction from the purvue of the courts which Congress could do. If we had a super majority the likes of Santorum, then we could end it.

But most Americans including those who say they’re Catholic are equally gutless and corrupt and will not even vote against pro-aborts.
I daresay many of you don’t really believe that an unborn child exists from the moment of fertilization on. Well, you konw I have seen my unborn chidren on the ultraound screen. I have seen their hearts beating and their heads. I had twin boys. Their bodies were not my body. We could see both their little hearts beating. The ventricles were clearly visible and this was with the ancient ultrasound machinery they had in 1982!

I challenge you who think legalized abortion throughout the whole nine months is of such minor consideration when deciding who to vote for, to go to <abort73.com> and view the video clips. The twin sons whose hearts I saw beating at 20 weeks after conception say the website is cool.

Another son is in Iraq and he is not fighting in order to keep abortion legal! I was not thinking about Iraq when I voted straight Republican. I was thinking about the slaughter taking place at Planned Parenthood and at the research facilities of major universities.

Yes, many Republicans are not strong in supporting life and some are pro-abortion. But because the party puts pressure on them, many will vote for life measures. Despite the Republican numbers, in fact many voted just like Democrats and would vote to thwart the confirmations of good judges under President Bush. In the Senate the Democrats held almost as many seats. You could validly say, that the lack of progress in stopping abortion can be laid at the feet of the current Democrats and RINO (Republican in name only) senators who love abortion.
The House was much more pro-life and I’m afraid many of you voted out the very congressmaen who were helpful to the pro-life cause. And you turned out Sen. Santorum who was heart and soul for ending abortion. If you read “Letters to Gabriel”, you’ll see why).

 

[Al_Masetti]

:bigyikes: Strong opinions here.
I would like to add that while Republicans have had the office for eight years now, abortion is still legal.
I don’t think it’s a matter of political party anymore. Abortion is not high on ANY politician’s agenda, no matter whether they’re pro-life or not.
It’s very sad but unfortunately very true.

The opening up of unrestricted abortion was “legislated” by the Supreme Court in two decisions: roe and doe.

Bush has appointed to new Supreme Court justices who appear to be pro-life, although under the “code words” in effect, they couldn’t state that openly or they would have been Borked. (Do you all remember what the Senate did to Bork???]

Anyway, in response to the suggestion that the Republicans didn’t do any thing meaningful in the pro-life area, read this post by someone else:

Following is from post 114708:

Maybe you all could comment on this list of Republican accompishments with respect to pro-life:

As far as the republican party goes the record is clear in the last 6 years that both Bush and the Republican party have delivered on their promises concerning abortion and values dear to our Church:

1. Banned Partial Birth Abortion - by far the most significant roll-back of abortion on demand since Roe v. Wade.
2. Reversed Clinton’s move to strike Reagan’s anti-abortion Mexico Policy.
3. By Executive Order (EO), reversed Clinton’s policy of not requiring parental consent for abortions under the Medical Privacy Act.
4. By EO, prohibited federal funds for international family planning groups that provide abortions and related services.
5. Upheld the ban on abortions at military hospitals.
6. Made $33 million available for abstinence education programs in 2004.
7. Supports the Defense of Marriage Act - and a Constitutional amendment saying marriage is between one man and one woman.
8. Requires states to conduct criminal background checks on prospective foster and adoptive parents.
9. Requires districts to let students transfer out of dangerous schools.
10. Requires schools to have a zero-tolerance policy for classroom disruption (reintroducing discipline into classrooms).
11. Signed the Teacher Protection Act, which protects teachers from lawsuits related to student discipline.
12. Expanded the role of faith-based and community organizations in after-school programs.
13. Passed the parental consent law-currently being blocked by DEMOCRATS
14. Pro-life Judge Alito placed on the Suprem Court
15. Made pro-life roberts Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.
16. Have placed over 2 dozen pro-life judges on Federal District courts. 6 Pro-life judges were blocked by the Democrats solely becuase of their support for Life.
17. Passed the Born alive Act
18. Passed the violence against the unborn act

Can you tell us which of the above would have been implemented if democrats had been in contol?

Here is the link:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthrea…lican+abortion

 

[Al_Masetti]

i never said the church was opposed to the free market, they clearly support it. but they are opposed to lassiez faire economics as touted by the republican party and certain aspects of capitalism as practiced here. id rather consult the catechism of the catholic church and it’s many encyclicals on social justice to decide what the church teaches rather than what thomas woods says. capitalism is defined by profit as ultimate end of economic activityas you can see, many of these teachings of the church are better represented by “liberals” or democrats. republicans have a poor track record when it comes to social justice. for instance, pay should also be based on needs and productivity.

What would you say is a reasonable percentage of the Gross Domestic Product that the government should take?

And what would you say is a reasonable percentage of total revenues that a company should realize as profit?

 

[mrs_abbott]

Can you tell us which of the above would have been implemented if democrats had been in contol?

It seems as though the Republicans did do some meaningful things while in office.
Let me pose this question then:
Can you tell us how many soldiers would still be alive with their families today if we had not gone to war with Iraq if the Democrats had been in control?

 

[mrs_abbott]

When the only alternative is the Republican party, there’s nothing wrong at all in being pleased at the change.

Mike

I’ll second that!

 

[Richardols]

As far as the republican party goes the record is clear in the last 6 years that both Bush and the Republican party have delivered on their promises concerning abortion and values dear to our Church:

1. Banned Partial Birth Abortion - by far the most significant roll-back of abortion on demand since Roe v. Wade.

Being argued at the SC even as we speak. We don’t know how that’ll turn out.

1. Supports the Defense of Marriage Act - and a Constitutional amendment saying marriage is between one man and one woman.

I don’t believe that the Amendment passed.

1. Requires states to conduct criminal background checks on prospective foster and adoptive parents.

How is this a pro-life issue?

1. Requires districts to let students transfer out of dangerous schools.

How is this a pro-life issue?

1. Requires schools to have a zero-tolerance policy for classroom disruption (reintroducing discipline into classrooms).

How is this a pro-life issue?

1. Signed the Teacher Protection Act, which protects teachers from lawsuits related to student discipline.

How is this a pro-life issue?

1. Expanded the role of faith-based and community organizations in after-school programs.

How is this a pro-life issue?

1. Passed the parental consent law-currently being blocked by DEMOCRATS

Rejected by voters Tuesday in several states.

1. Pro-life Judge Alito placed on the Suprem Court
2. Made pro-life roberts Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.

Conservatives - conservatives; we don’t know if they are pro-life/anti-abortion yet.

1. Have placed over 2 dozen pro-life judges on Federal District courts.

Pro-life/anti-abortion or just conservative. The two don’t necessarily equate.

 

[CathCentrist]

:bigyikes: Strong opinions here.
I would like to add that while Republicans have had the office for eight years now, abortion is still legal.
I don’t think it’s a matter of political party anymore. Abortion is not high on ANY politician’s agenda, no matter whether they’re pro-life or not.
It’s very sad but unfortunately very true.

I agree. And MANY people including about 1/3 of evangelical voters think that as well. Its not enough to watch this country get ripped apart by lies, scandals and corruption just so long as the GOP keeps stringing pro lifers along with their abortion carrot. Its time to wake up and realize we were being lied to from Bush on down. Its hard to believe so many fell for so long just because someone said they pray and used Gods name. Forget their words and look at their ACTIONS. The GOP had the deck stacked in favor to do something about abortion all along and did NOTHING. The truth was there all along.

 

[Sheeniac]

It seems as though the Republicans did do some meaningful things while in office.
Let me pose this question then:
Can you tell us how many soldiers would still be alive with their families today if we had not gone to war with Iraq if the Democrats had been in control?

Since they supported it before, it would be hard to say. You have to remember that all deaths - including accidents, training, etc are considered related to the war, whereas to civilians, it’s a different story. Playing what-if in this area is hard.

 

[Sheeniac]

Conservatives - conservatives; we don’t know if they are pro-life/anti-abortion yet.

Depending on the law being challenged, it depends on whether a given judge will decide for life. Conservatives traditionally believe in erroring on the side of life, so I think in terms of the SC, Scalia would be inclined to life.

In terms of Justice Thomas, it is easier to predict his positions of you look at him in terms of his being a strict constructionist, rather than adhering to ‘liberal’ or ‘conservative’. Some of his positions confound people/commentators because they don’t understand this.

 

[CWard34]

I’ll second that!

Yes, how evil those republicans are, what with their not wanting to murder babies and all.

And how foolish they are to think that going to war is an appropriate way to protect themselves and other innocents. We all know that the only reasonable and productive course of action is politely asking terrorists to stop hating everybody.

So I say come join the Democratic party, where EVIL is just some fairy tale that the GOP made up!

• Rolls eyes *

 

[Sheeniac]

The GOP had the deck stacked in favor to do something about abortion all along and did NOTHING. The truth was there all along.

CC, as posted elsewhere, they HAVE done something. Is it enough to satisfy us? No.

Can we lay all of the blame on them for the lack of progress? Not entirely. We are not a dictatorship where things are changed on whim and are 100%. You must remember that there is a strong Abortion Lobby in this country, supported by many of the left and center. And there are MANY politicians that are in favor of “choice”. The Rs did not have a strong enough majority to get many things passed. There were enough swing votes in the Senate /House to make it tough. These were “liberal” Rs that didn’t support the Right to Life, or that represented a state where there wasn’t a strong enough Life support.

 

[mary_bobo]

Being argued at the SC even as we speak. We don’t know how that’ll turn out.

I don’t believe that the Amendment passed.

How is this a pro-life issue?

How is this a pro-life issue?

How is this a pro-life issue?

How is this a pro-life issue?

How is this a pro-life issue?

Rejected by voters Tuesday in several states.

Conservatives - conservatives; we don’t know if they are pro-life/anti-abortion yet.

Pro-life/anti-abortion or just conservative. The two don’t necessarily equate.

How many times are we going to submit these accomplishments to people who do not want to see? If a Republican did it, they won’t believe it even if they see it happen. It’s getting very weary trying to communicate with folks who see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear. And if it is standing before them in black, they will call it white. Rather juvenile, IMO.

 

[james1441]

How many times are we going to submit these accomplishments to people who do not want to see? If a Republican did it, they won’t believe it even if they see it happen. It’s getting very weary trying to communicate with folks who see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear. And if it is standing before them in black, they will call it white. Rather juvenile, IMO.

yet you did not answer most his questions, which were how were the majority of those points you brought up related to pro-life issues?

 

[mrs_abbott]

Yes, how evil those republicans are, what with their not wanting to murder babies and all.

You’re incorrect because they murdered hundreds of babies, born and unborn. Abortion is still legal and third-trimester ones still and DO happen regularly here in the Abortion Capital of the World. Thousands of soldiers in Iraq have died in a war that only we seem to be fighting. Where is the rest of the world to help us out? Obviously, it’s just been their cue to fire up their missiles.

 

[mary_bobo]

yet you did not answer most his questions, which were how were the majority of those points you brought up related to pro-life issues?

I was responding to the posts that have been saying that the GOP did nothing for the pro-life movement. You may not like the party, that’s fair, but for folks to continually repeat that the GOP did nothing is just not the case. Could not answer his post, too hard to follow. I take it he was responding to someone else, but I only saw one side of the discussion. Sorry.

 

[CathCentrist]

yet you did not answer most his questions, which were how were the majority of those points you brought up related to pro-life issues?

I’m waiting as well

 

[CathCentrist]

You’re incorrect because they murdered hundreds of babies, born and unborn. Abortion is still legal and third-trimester ones still and DO happen regularly here in the Abortion Capital of the World. Thousands of soldiers in Iraq have died in a war that only we seem to be fighting. Where is the rest of the world to help us out? Obviously, it’s just been their cue to fire up their missiles.

Havent ya heard? Missiles cause death in order to BRING life!