Elections Results Thread

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irishpatrick said:
Stop! I never said Catholics had the nation. I am speaking of a global “we.” The loss of faith and morals is huge, and it will be to our ultimate doom if we do not turn it around.
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The loss of subscription to sentences about faith and morals is huge because it leads to a nastier looking society. The range of stuff that people will do in public without shame has changed. Do people act differently when they think no one’s looking, and they think they can get away with it? I don’t know.
 
seekerz said:
I disagree that we have lost anything…Why must every debate be so dramatic? How can people of a different persuasion unite with you to build a better country if you start from the point of “we” have lost the country? There are millions of people today who don’t believe they have lost anything - and there is no basis to assume that they all are depraved or in love with the “culture of death”. Sheesh, sometimes I wish for a time machine to take people back in history: the Roman Empire, the Babylonian exile…Nobody loses with God at their side.
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There are millions of people today who are deluded and blinded by the allure of the world. 🤷

Our nation is going under.
 
irishpatrick said:
No, it causes the loss of souls and the loss of culture.
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It causes a change in culture, from a higher more sophisticated culture capable of great achievements, to a lower culture pre-occupied with sex, personal power, gain and personal safety, yes.

Look, this has been visibly approaching since the 80s, and I don’t find any of it surprising. The only thing that I find dismaying is that the acceleration seems to be increasing. Historically, acceleration always picks up before one of these cultural crashes, but the acceleration here is quite something. We’ve been heading for a New Dark Age for some time and that hasn’t changed. It will be a New Dark Age with fake science and nuclear weapons. Fun, fun, fun, eh?
 
Tampa_Dave said:
Aren’t you the person who repeatedly used the :extrahappy: icon while discussing the election in earlier posts? Perhaps a 🙂 might have been sufficient. At least twice I’ve congratulated Obama partisans for their hard fought victory, though I have yet to see the sentiment reciprocated. Nor should Romney partisans resort to nasty insults regarding Obama and his supporters. I’ve chosen apathy over extreme partisanship. It only affects me in my tiny corner of the world.

If it was not you, I stand corrected. I do concur with your statement regarding the Cleveland Indians, who have not won a World Series in decades.
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I’ve tried not to use that icon today or on this thread. While I found Romney a flawed candidate, there is no need to rehash what has already been discussed on CAF over these many months. I gave Romney credit for his speech last night. He seemed very genuine to me. I wonder if America had seen that Romney for the past yr, if the election would have gone differently. Cleveland almost won a WS in 97. Needed 1 more strike on Charles Johnson and then 1 more out with Jose Mesa on the mound. But true we haven’t in my lifetime. I found this yr’s Aug collapse worse than last. But nothing worse in sports than 97. 😦 In any case peace.
 
iloveangels said:
I won’t go that far, because I don’t think “you Catholics” ever had the nation. Catholics are at tops on paper about 25% of the population, but only about 20% of them actually manage to go to mass weekly. And they have voted and behaved almost identically to the general population for more than 50 years. You cannot differentiate between Catholics and non-Catholics on the street, in the workplace or at the doctor’s office in almost every case. Catholics are inconsequential in politics and the Democrats know that. They take Catholics for granted and it’s worked. The Church was double-crossed last year–stabbed in the back–and they got away with it in broad daylight. So much for “having the nation.” I’ve thought for years that Catholics have illusions of grandeur on this subject of being the great American institution and this election is just one more data point for me.

Has the nation been Christian in the past? Yes, it was founded as a Christian nation. It’s post-Christian now. That’s a sad thing, but it’s also happened in Europe and the UK.

What you saw yesterday was politics, not religion for most people, because that’s the only way people can thing about morals in this country now. Vast majorities of the people in this country think that if it’s legal, it must be okay. And if you can somehow steal it from someone or beat someone up to get it, that’s good. That’s America today. Hang onto your wallet and keys.
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That was a very good assessment of American Catholicism and politics.:tiphat:
 
I don’t feel a whole lot different today that I did after election day in 2004, Obama is just as bad as Bush was insofar as he is leading the country in the wrong direction. I see many paralells between John Kerry and Mitt Romney as presidential candidates as well. I would have preferred that Romeny was elected president but at the end of the day I know that things truly won’t change in this country. This is not to suggest that I have an apathetic attitude but there is only so much a president can do no matter how good they may end up being and even at that they tend to be most focused on a personal agenda item that turns into their legacy. Examples below:

Reagan: Economy, Soviet Union

GHW Bush: Gulf War

Clinton: Economy

GW Bush: Terrorism, Iraq War

Obama: Obamacare
 
CMatt25 said:
I’ve tried not to use that icon today or on this thread. While I found Romney a flawed candidate, there is no need to rehash what has already been discussed on CAF over these many months. I gave Romney credit for his speech last night. He seemed very genuine to me. I wonder if America had seen that Romney for the past yr, if the election would have gone differently. Cleveland almost won a WS in 97. Needed 1 more strike on Charles Johnson and then 1 more out with Jose Mesa on the mound. But true we haven’t in my lifetime. I found this yr’s Aug collapse worse than last. 😦 Peace.
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Pure politics, CMatt. Why am I not surprised?
 
iloveangels said:
No, Catholics haven’t “lost the nation.” Catholics never had it in the first place. Seriously, Catholics need to look in the mirror and get past all these fictions about ethnic identity and all that. All that is gone.

Evangelicals, mainline protestants, Catholics and others have been the predominant religious groups in the USA, and Americans have always been very religious people.

BUT Americans, like Europeans before them, are in the process of shifting their moral beliefs from religion to a fake idea of science and to government. And there the majority of Catholics are no different than anyone else in the culture. This is why the behavioral metrics are almost identical between Catholics and the general population. They are statistically indistinguishable the great majority of the time.

Of course, when their governments eventually tank, as all governments do, they’re going to be between a rock and a hard place, but that’s not the issue for them now. They’re too busy with what they’re doing. Just like the Roman Empire was before them. Some things never change.
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Secular humanism it about to take over America as it has Europe. I personally think it goes hand and hand with socialism, wherein government assumes the role of ‘God’ and administers social justice as it deems fit.
 
Lochias said:
There are millions of people today who are deluded and blinded by the allure of the world. 🤷

Our nation is going under.
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No. Even during the depths of the fall of Rome, people lived in the city and all the colonies like Britain and did the best that they could. That’s how dark ages work. We still are a ways from a true dark age but we’ll get through it now and later when it shows up. Say your prayers, trust that God knows what He’s doing, be safe and hang onto your wallet.
 
iloveangels said:
Most Catholics vote exactly like the general population because most of them are the general population.

Catholics who actually attend Mass weekly are much more likely to identify with the Church’s ACTUAL teachings instead of their own pious fictions, and vote accordingly. However, only about 20% of Catholics actually attend Mass weekly, the actual figure depending on which study you consult.
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It’s only 20%? I know when I’ve attended Catholic Mass, the pews have not usually been filled.
 
CMatt25 said:
I’ve tried not to use that icon today or on this thread. While I found Romney a flawed candidate, there is no need to rehash what has already been discussed on CAF over these many months. I gave Romney credit for his speech last night. He seemed very genuine to me. I wonder if America had seen that Romney for the past yr, if the election would have gone differently. Cleveland almost won a WS in 97. Needed 1 more strike on Charles Johnson and then 1 more out with Jose Mesa on the mound. But true we haven’t in my lifetime. I found this yr’s Aug collapse worse than last. But nothing worse in sports than 97. 😦 In any case peace.
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If that wasn’t you, then we are at peace, Cmatt. Gloating is unpleasant. 🙂
 
Tampa_Dave said:
Secular humanism it about to take over America as it has Europe. I personally think it goes hand and hand with socialism, wherein government assumes the role of ‘God’ and administers social justice as it deems fit.
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This has been predictable for a long time. Only as late to the game as we are, it’s not going to go very well for us. The math isn’t there to create a true full-blown welfare state like a giant Scandinavian country, so it will morph into something else soon enough. I expect that it will turn into chaos before it turns into repression, simply because Americans are so undisciplined and individualistic. People have lived in chaos before for centuries at a time. It’s going to be all right, barring the consequences of our scientific experiments coming to back to bite us. (nuclear etc.)
 
iloveangels said:
It causes a change in culture, from a higher more sophisticated culture capable of great achievements, to a lower culture pre-occupied with sex, personal power, gain and personal safety, yes.

Look, this has been visibly approaching since the 80s, and I don’t find any of it surprising. The only thing that I find dismaying is that the acceleration seems to be increasing. Historically, acceleration always picks up before one of these cultural crashes, but the acceleration here is quite something. We’ve been heading for a New Dark Age for some time and that hasn’t changed. It will be a New Dark Age with fake science and nuclear weapons. Fun, fun, fun, eh?
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I agree…and you make my points for me. We are heading down that slippery slope.
 
iloveangels said:
CMatt, the polls were right. Silver works for Newsweek who can’t even sell magazines anymore. He was shooting off his mouth and he had about 50% of a chance of being “right” simply because the split was about 50%.
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I guess they were. But I’ve seen a lot of polls posted here over the past months.
 
CMatt25 said:
It’s only 20%? I know when I’ve attended Catholic Mass, the pews have not usually been filled.
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It varies from geographical region to geographical region, yes. But the Catholic Church is actually much smaller than it looks.

A lot of these “faith-based” efforts that the government is always pushing make it look much bigger, and of course, Medicare to catholic hospitals and so on has the same effect.

Caution: There is one interesting thing though. The number of people who subscribe to nostalgia and conservative-sounding talk is very high, even among those who don’t go to Church weekly. The long-standing belief of dissident outfits like CTA and VOFT has been that they could capture this large group of ethnic catholics who seem liberal. That has been an enormous flop. It’s not that these people necessarily subscribe to anything like CTA espouses. Rather, it’s something else, and that’s nothing like the progressive activism of CTA and other dissident groups. Most Catholics would simply rather shop or something than go to corny meetings and plot all kinds of things… 😃
 
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