End Times Speculation - A Different View

[openmind77]

Of course it does. When I said every single person on earth is spiritually dead in need of a resurrection, it applies to every single person on earth, you and me.

You seem stuck on the ebbs and flows of popularity.

This is your Judgement Day.

If everyone is jumping off a bridge to death, including all the Bieber fans, would you follow?



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Actually, you are right. Judgment did start very recently (nothing to do with Bahaullah and his coming).

Just recently the world is being rapidly divided into two groups - the sheep and the goats (as Jesus predicted). It is easy see who are the sheep and who are the goats (just read Matthew 25:31-44 carefully).

So Judgment Day has indeed started, but it has absolutely nothing to do with Bahaullah or spiritual death or my/your resurrection.

 

[openmind77]

I personally think the idea of a Saviour who will come along and SUDDENLY we have no free will any more and are chained as prisoners to the moral code of God with no other options is a…

…dreamworld…sorry



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I am not where you read anything about loss of free will in what I said.

I just said you will be immensely disappointed. You will have plenty of free will in your disappointment and no one will chain or imprison you, but you will be judged like the rest of humanity (actually I am quite sure you will pass - so don’t read anything else into what I said)…

 

[Servant19]

I am not where you read anything about loss of free will in what I said.

I just said you will be immensely disappointed. You will have plenty of free will in your disappointment and no one will chain or imprison you, but you will be judged like the rest of humanity (actually I am quite sure you will pass - so don’t read anything else into what I said)…

So what happens after all the judgement?

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[tonyfish58]

Actually, you are right. Judgment did start very recently (nothing to do with Bahaullah and his coming).

Just recently the world is being rapidly divided into two groups - the sheep and the goats (as Jesus predicted). It is easy see who are the sheep and who are the goats (just read Matthew 25:31-44 carefully).

So Judgment Day has indeed started, but it has absolutely nothing to do with Bahaullah or spiritual death or my/your resurrection.

God Bless your journey Dear Friend in God

“That the violent disruption which has seized the entire planet is beyond the ability of men to assuage, unaided by God’s revelation, is a truth repeatedly and forcibly set forth in our Writings. The old order cannot be repaired; it is being rolled up before our eyes. The moral decay and disorder convulsing human society must run their course; we can neither arrest nor divert them. Our task is to build the Order of Bahá’u’lláh.” - The Universal House of Justice, from a letter dated August 1968

Regards Tony

 

[openmind77]

So what happens after all the judgement?

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After Judgment Day (which will actually last several years) life goes on as before except two things

• the Savior (the Christ or the Mahdi whatever you want to call him) will be here in the world and
• the people who do not pass the Judgment will be removed.one way or another (or at least out of power).

I expect to find you here after Judgment Day just as opinionated and free as you are now (but as I said before, vastly disappointed).

The criteria for Judgment are very clearly stated in Matthew 25:31-44 . There are essentially five tests that will be applied.

 

[Servant19]

After Judgment Day (which will actually last several years) life goes on as before except two things

• the Savior (the Christ or the Mahdi whatever you want to call him) will be here in the world and
• the people who do not pass the Judgment will be removed.one way or another (or at least out of power).

I expect to find you here after Judgment Day just as opinionated and free as you are now (but as I said before, vastly disappointed).

The criteria for Judgment are very clearly stated in Matthew 25:31-44 . There are essentially five tests that will be applied.

Ok so, let’s imagine 70 years after Judgement, what happens to those who “misbehave”??

Does the Saviour go around exterminating those people?
.

 

[tonyfish58]

After Judgment Day (which will actually last several years) life goes on as before except two things

• the Savior (the Christ or the Mahdi whatever you want to call him) will be here in the world and
• the people who do not pass the Judgment will be removed.one way or another (or at least out of power).

I expect to find you here after Judgment Day just as opinionated and free as you are now (but as I said before, vastly disappointed).

The criteria for Judgment are very clearly stated in Matthew 25:31-44 . There are essentially five tests that will be applied.

openmind77 - Dear friend in God you have given 3 criteria

• the Savior (the Christ or the Mahdi whatever you want to call him) will be here in the world and
• the people who do not pass the Judgment will be removed.one way or another (or at least out of power).

I expect to find you here after Judgment Day just as opinionated and free as you are now (but as I said before, vastly disappointed).

Those could apply to Baha’u’llah

He did come to this World and for a lifetime called man to turn unto god, in fact His Revelation fulfilled Biblical Prophesy and His Pen recorded Revelation that lasted 40 Years

He passed the judgment and those Kings, Rulers, Divines to who He wrote the letters and told of their downfall, fell from grace and are no more.

The world continues as you have said just as opinionated as they were.

But the world is changing dear friend in God.

Try as they might many people have tried to again silence the Word of God, try as they may it only waters the tree of life, the more they try the more it will grow.

If this does not spark a bit of interest dear openmind77, then may be your screen name might need a little tweaking (Said as LOL and not to offend )

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[peace_at_last]

Dear peace_at_last, that dear friend in God was such an unjust look at that event that I feel compelled to put it into perspective. Thus the story is retold here for all to see …

cont
…

All can follow this up if they wish at this link - bahai-library.com/davidmerrick_holydays_martyrdomofbab

God Bless and Regards Tony

I just double checked your link. The story you provided is an apparent attempt to turn the execution of the Bab into a fairy tale style story suitable for a Baha’i audience without providing historical evidence or documents. This is what is recorded in the link you provided:

“Martyrdom of the Bab, told in plain English and suitable for reading aloud. Based on many early accounts.”

We all know what happens when a historical event is turned into a story. As I said, the wikipedia sources state that a bullet pierced the rope the Bab was hanging to and he fell down and ran off to a room only to be brought out again and killed. Clearly not a miracle. I repeat again: tell us some miracles that cannot be justified by ordinary worldly means: like the things Jesus, Moses, and Muhammad did.

Google turns up nothing and I’m still waiting for servant19 to provide me with miracles because he claimed they exist.

 

[meltzerboy]

Ok we heard your thoughts. Very illuminating! Let me summarize- when Krishna came, everybody died and end times began, when Jesus came everybody died and end times started again. And when Bahaullah came everybody died again and another end times started. (And when Muhammad came?) Very strange stuff indeed!

What do you say Tony? Is somebody else going to come and start another end times or was Bahaullah the last and final one? And what about the Return of the Christ and Return of the Mahdi? Has that happened or still to occur?

In Judaism, no one has to die for the end times to begin. There is a Jewish belief (not binding, however) that the Messiah will arrive before the Jewish New Year 6,000 (we’re just about 5775 now) as this date represents the six days, that is, millennia, of the Creation. Further, the Messiah will appear either when the world is tottering on disaster OR when people are at their best, morally speaking. This covers most of the bases.

 

[Servant19]

I just double checked your link. The story you provided is an apparent attempt to turn the execution of the Bab into a fairy tale style story suitable for a Baha’i audience without providing historical evidence or documents. This is what is recorded in the link you provided:

“Martyrdom of the Bab, told in plain English and suitable for reading aloud. Based on many early accounts.”

We all know what happens when a historical event is turned into a story. As I said, the wikipedia sources state that a bullet pierced the rope the Bab was hanging to and he fell down and ran off to a room only to be brought out again and killed. Clearly not a miracle. I repeat again: tell us some miracles that cannot be justified by ordinary worldly means: like the things Jesus, Moses, and Muhammad did.

Google turns up nothing and I’m still waiting for servant19 to provide me with miracles because he claimed they exist.

Over 700 bullets and not one hit the Bab. Not shot by the local carpenters, but by an elite regiment of the Persian Army. And you call that just luck?

You are a fascinating man my friend

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[openmind77]

Ok so, let’s imagine 70 years after Judgement, what happens to those who “misbehave”??

Does the Saviour go around exterminating those people?
.

Nobody will be exterminated even during Judgment - they will make their own choice of exit.

The same is true after Judgment Day, but with the Teacher in the classroom, it is difficult for students to misbehave (you still have free will, but you can no longer hide)

 

[openmind77]

openmind77 - Dear friend in God you have given 3 criteria

• the Savior (the Christ or the Mahdi whatever you want to call him) will be here in the world and
• the people who do not pass the Judgment will be removed.one way or another (or at least out of power).

I expect to find you here after Judgment Day just as opinionated and free as you are now (but as I said before, vastly disappointed).

Those could apply to Baha’u’llah

He did come to this World and for a lifetime called man to turn unto god, in fact His Revelation fulfilled Biblical Prophesy and His Pen recorded Revelation that lasted 40 Years

He passed the judgment and those Kings, Rulers, Divines to who He wrote the letters and told of their downfall, fell from grace and are no more.

The world continues as you have said just as opinionated as they were.

But the world is changing dear friend in God.

Try as they might many people have tried to again silence the Word of God, try as they may it only waters the tree of life, the more they try the more it will grow.

If this does not spark a bit of interest dear openmind77, then may be your screen name might need a little tweaking (Said as LOL and not to offend )

God Bless and Regards Tony

You could apply them to Bahaullah all you you want, but nobody except your Bahai friends will buy the story - soon it will be just a footnote in history.

Once the real World Savior shows up, even you will have difficulty with your own story. It would be best to accept reality now.

 

[openmind77]

In Judaism, no one has to die for the end times to begin. There is a Jewish belief (not binding, however) that the Messiah will arrive before the Jewish New Year 6,000 (we’re just about 5775 now) as this date represents the six days, that is, millennia, of the Creation. Further, the Messiah will appear either when the world is tottering on disaster OR when people are at their best, morally speaking. This covers most of the bases.

What is your opinion of Rabbi Kaduri’s supposed prophesy? Here is a link: alamongordo.com/prophetic-predictions-rabbi-yitzhak-kaduri/

 

[meltzerboy]

What is your opinion of Rabbi Kaduri’s supposed prophesy?

Maybe true, maybe not true. After all, the esteemed Rabbi Yitzhak Kaduri, who died at the age of 108, was not a major prophet. Whether the Messiah he mentions as either Yeshua or Yehoshua is the same as Jesus is even more controversial, particularly in the Orthodox Jewish community. His son, Rabbi David Kaduri, denies that his father even left such a note since the handwriting is different.

 

[SteveVH]

Ok so, let’s imagine 70 years after Judgement, what happens to those who “misbehave”??

Does the Saviour go around exterminating those people?
.

These are the type of ignorant statements that begin to make our blood boil, Servant.

There will be no time after the judgment. We will live in eternity. And no, the Savior will not go around exterminating people. He desires that not even one be lost. Everyone has chosen their own path in this life. Those who have rejected the grace of God will get exactly what they wished for; a life, for eternity, without God. God sends no one to hell. They go their on their own.

 

[SteveVH]

I personally think the idea of a Saviour who will come along and SUDDENLY we have no free will any more and are chained as prisoners to the moral code of God with no other options is a…

…dreamworld…sorry



.

And any Catholic would agree with you. Before you start throwing around ridiculous statement such as this you had better be able to show a Catholic teaching that says that God will take away our free will.

When the judgment comes, the time for making our choices will have come to an end. Then we get to live with the consequences of the choices we have made throughout our lives. Eternal life or eternal death. It will be the end of human history.

 

[Servant19]

Servant, you cannot just begin each post with “Dear friend…” and end with a and think that in between you can you can twist and turn our Scriptures into anything you wish them to say and tell us that we haven’t a clue what we’re talking about. You add and take away from our texts and assign meanings that were never meant. And you give not one iota of consideration to the teachings of our Church. And then you claim to be respectful and loving to all, “especially Catholicism as a religion”.

Can you tell me just one doctrine of the Catholic Church that you believe is true? You spend all of your time here basically telling us that we haven’t got a clue. Jesus didn’t rise bodily from the grave; Thomas was having a vision when Christ asked him to touch his wounds; Coming on the clouds with glory means that his coming will be obscure (i.e. Baha’u’llah); Christ’s miracles are meaningless as far as proving anything about him, they are meant to “bedazzle” children. I could go on and on… and you know I could. But, in spite of all of this, you love “Catholicism as a religion”.

Here’s the deal. If you had your own, unique set of Scriptures and believed what you believe then so be it. When you take our Scriptures, however, “Christian”, not “Baha’i” Scriptures, and turn them on their ear, yes, we get a little concerned because you are not just a little off, you are in another universe altogether. I’m not sure “mad” is the appropriate term to use. Righteous indignation comes to mind.

And you know what, I will just bet that the Muslims feel the same when you interpret their Quran for them. I’d bet my next paycheck on it.

Steve

Let us therefore judge Baha’u’llah on His own merits, THEN, once that has been ascertained we can simply accept His Word as true

Christianity is no different, there is no Law, it is the Law of death, the “no need to be circumcised” fallacy, the changing of divorce law, lets not forget the Sabbath, that the Messiah was not a world redeemer (He will sort that out when He comes back), did not rule with a sword, we could go on and on. (but you know and I know that the religion of Christ stood up on its own merits)

The Founders of all the worlds religions have no legs to stand on by the standards you propose.

All that one can do is ask for justice and fairness of judgement. To you Jesus can do no wrong, and everything that Baha’u’llah has stated is a heresy. Is that fairness?

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[Servant19]

These are the type of ignorant statements that begin to make our blood boil, Servant.

There will be no time after the judgment. We will live in eternity. And no, the Savior will not go around exterminating people. He desires that not even one be lost. Everyone has chosen their own path in this life. Those who have rejected the grace of God will get exactly what they wished for; a life, for eternity, without God. God sends no one to hell. They go their on their own.

Please don’t get so hot and bothered Steve. I was talking to openmind about his Judgment Day theories, not to Catholics. You seem to tag onto snippets of conversations, make 2+2 equal 10567 and get yourself angered to the point of sometimes needing to apologize. (as in the other thread where you claimed Baha’is make it up as they go along)

It’s not healthy for your body or your soul. Please stay calm and lets discuss things, otherwise, please place Baha’is on your ignore list and you can enjoy 37 degree Celcius blood temperature

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[Servant19]

Nobody will be exterminated even during Judgment - they will make their own choice of exit.

The same is true after Judgment Day, but with the Teacher in the classroom, it is difficult for students to misbehave (you still have free will, but you can no longer hide)

This begs so many questions openmind. Would you mind answering them please?

1. How long will this Judgement last?
2. If it is for eternity, will I live eternally too?
3. Can I and my wife still have children?
4. Will my children be judged upon birth?

Thankyou

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[openmind77]

This begs so many questions openmind. Would you mind answering them please?

1. How long will this Judgement last?
2. If it is for eternity, will I live eternally too?
3. Can I and my wife still have children?
4. Will my children be judged upon birth?

Thankyou

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1. Just a few years - maybe seven (the Savior will get here in the middle of this period)
2. Nobody lives eternally in a physical body. You will just have your normal life span.
3. Of course, you can have children. Nothing changes except that the Savior is here and the ‘goats’ are gone.
4. Those born after the Judgment period will already be ones who will pass the Judgment tests (ie no more goats will be allowed to take birth). - To see who are goats, read Matthew 25:31-46