End Times Speculation - A Different View

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Sam Khan, remembering what the Báb had told him, was likewise stunned. He ordered his men to leave the barracks, refusing to take further part in the execution, even if it meant his own life would be forfeit.

But others were not so disinclined. A new firing squad was drawn up and the Báb and Muhammad-'Alí were again suspended against the pillar. As the regiment prepared to fire, the Báb spoke His final words: “Had you believed in Me, O wayward generation, every one of you would have followed the example of this youth [Muhammad-'Alí], who stood in rank above most of you, and willingly would have sacrificed himself in My path. The day will come when you will have recognized Me; that day I shall have ceased to be with you.”

The regiment opened fire. This time, the victims’ bodies were shattered by bullets. Immediately a gale of unusual ferocity blew up, engulfing the city and raising a thick cloud of dust that blotted out the light of the sun until nightfall.

After the Execution that city was plunged into darkness and other very momentous events occurred - All can follow this up if they wish at this link - bahai-library.com/davidmerrick_holydays_martyrdomofbab

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
tonyfish58 said:
cont

Sam Khan, remembering what the Báb had told him, was likewise stunned. He ordered his men to leave the barracks, refusing to take further part in the execution, even if it meant his own life would be forfeit.

But others were not so disinclined. A new firing squad was drawn up and the Báb and Muhammad-'Alí were again suspended against the pillar. As the regiment prepared to fire, the Báb spoke His final words: “Had you believed in Me, O wayward generation, every one of you would have followed the example of this youth [Muhammad-'Alí], who stood in rank above most of you, and willingly would have sacrificed himself in My path. The day will come when you will have recognized Me; that day I shall have ceased to be with you.”

The regiment opened fire. This time, the victims’ bodies were shattered by bullets. Immediately a gale of unusual ferocity blew up, engulfing the city and raising a thick cloud of dust that blotted out the light of the sun until nightfall.

After the Execution that city was plunged into darkness and other very momentous events occurred - All can follow this up if they wish at this link - bahai-library.com/davidmerrick_holydays_martyrdomofbab

God Bless and Regards Tony
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OK, OK Mr Tony. it definitely sounds like a miracle. However, the ability to perform miracles is special, but it is not that unique - there have always been people in India who have demonstrated miracles and many more who have claimed them.

But coming back to the topic, I think your intention in starting the thread is to claim that the end times started with the coming of Bahuallah, unfortunately most of the 6 billion people on this planet do not believe this. Most of them have not even heard about Bahaullah or the Bab.

However, there are millions of people in the world who think that the end times are occurring right now and none of them (other than the Bahai) believe it has anything to do with Bahaullah. The Christians who believe this, expect the Christ (as well as the AntiChrist) to appear soon and the Muslims believe the Imam Mahdi will appear soon.

What do you believe? That Bahaullah represents in some way the Return of the Christ or the Return of the Mahdi or Both?
 
SteveVH said:
shortened

And you know what, I will just bet that the Muslims feel the same when you interpret their Quran for them. I’d bet my next paycheck on it. 😉

Steve
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Bingo!

I don’t advocate gambling, but that is a gamble you’d win.
 
PaulDupre1 said:
There you go again. I did not say “you and your cult”. Re-read my post. I said “you and your sect”. Huge difference.

Why did you feel the need to change my words?’

Why do you feel the need to change the bible’s words?

If you can’t make a believable argument from the text without altering the text to suit your argument, perhaps you should re-evaluate the strength of your truth claims.
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My sincere apologies. I could swear I read “cult”…must be old age kicking in very prematurely 🙂

Did you know that the Bahai Faith is an independent global religion? Not a sect. The principle and spirit behind your words is still disrespectful, and I know that you, Paul, have no problems with being respectful towards others. I can bank on it 🙂

In all honesty though Paul, I acknowledge and apologize if I am using twisted words. If you can point out which passages of the Bible I have twisted, I will apologize again.

Maybe we can discuss things then.

🙂

.
 
openmind77 said:
OK, OK Mr Tony. it definitely sounds like a miracle. However, the ability to perform miracles is special, but it is not that unique - there have always been people in India who have demonstrated miracles and many more who have claimed them.

But coming back to the topic, I think your intention in starting the thread is to claim that the end times started with the coming of Bahuallah, unfortunately most of the 6 billion people on this planet do not believe this. Most of them have not even heard about Bahaullah or the Bab.

However, there are millions of people in the world who think that the end times are occurring right now and none of them (other than the Bahai) believe it has anything to do with Bahaullah. The Christians who believe this, expect the Christ (as well as the AntiChrist) to appear soon and the Muslims believe the Imam Mahdi will appear soon.

What do you believe? That Bahaullah represents in some way the Return of the Christ or the Return of the Mahdi or Both?
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Dear friend, can you give us your understanding as to why the First Coming of Jesus 2000 years ago was also termed the End Times by Paul and the other Apostles?

.
 
Servant19 said:
Haha

Ok would you mind if I offer my understanding?

.
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Why would I mind ? You are free to say anything you want.

But I can tell you they were wrong as you Bahai are wrong in thinking that the end times started with the coming of Bahaullah - very few people have heard of or will ever know about Bahaullah…
 
openmind77 said:
Why would I mind ? You are free to say anything you want.

But I can tell you they were wrong as you Bahai are wrong in thinking that the end times started with the coming of Bahaullah - very few people have heard of or will ever know about Bahaullah…
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Ok thankyou 🙂

The End Times is not about this world of dust.

The End Times, Last Days, Day of Resurrection, Judgement Day is ALL about our souls.

Baha’u’llah (and I am summarising here) states that the moment a Manifestation of God says “I am”, all on earth are dead, and when they recognise the Manifestation of God they are resurrected to life.

What does this mean?

We can look at the Bible and the Bhagavad Gita to explain.

In the Gita, it is stated that “for the salvation of those who are good, and the destruction of evil in men, I come to this earth from Age to Age”

…the word “FOR” is critical. Lord Krsna comes to earth FOR the salvation of men. Those who are good will know Him and will attain salvation by recognising Him and doing His Will.

In the NT, it is stated:

John 5:28-29 (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Don’t these two verses sound similar? (from the Gita and John’s Gospel)

But we know that it would be silly if everyone on earth “literally” dies, on a physical sense.

So one can assume that what Baha’u’llah speaks of is that when He came, or when Jesus came, and the words “I am” were uttered, ALL ON EARTH died “spiritually”, like a lightening flash, sudden and catastrophic.

The words “I am” then dictate what is good and what is evil in the Age that is heralded.

Those that do good, as dictated by the Manifestation of God for the Age will “attain onto salvation”, will undergo a spiritual “resurrection of life”

And those that don’t will go unto a spiritual “resurrection of damnation”

Life and death in religious scripture VERY RARELY has anything to do with physical life and death, so seeing, and hearing of Baha’u’llah is irrelevant, as it was during the early days of Jesus first coming.

When Jesus first came, no-one knew of Him hardly, and yet it was the End Times.

Today, we are in another End Times, the one of Baha’u’llah. Those that reject His teachings are in damnation, and we can see evidence of this rejection throughout the globe today.

Hope that makes sense?

.
 
Servant19 said:
Ok thankyou 🙂

The End Times is not about this world of dust.

The End Times, Last Days, Day of Resurrection, Judgement Day is ALL about our souls.

Baha’u’llah (and I am summarising here) states that the moment a Manifestation of God says “I am”, all on earth are dead, and when they recognise the Manifestation of God they are resurrected to life.

What does this mean?

We can look at the Bible and the Bhagavad Gita to explain.

In the Gita, it is stated that “for the salvation of those who are good, and the destruction of evil in men, I come to this earth from Age to Age”

…the word “FOR” is critical. Lord Krsna comes to earth FOR the salvation of men. Those who are good will know Him and will attain salvation by recognising Him and doing His Will.

In the NT, it is stated:

John 5:28-29 (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Don’t these two verses sound similar? (from the Gita and John’s Gospel)

But we know that it would be silly if everyone on earth “literally” dies, on a physical sense.

So one can assume that what Baha’u’llah speaks of is that when He came, or when Jesus came, and the words “I am” were uttered, ALL ON EARTH died “spiritually”, like a lightening flash, sudden and catastrophic.

The words “I am” then dictate what is good and what is evil in the Age that is heralded.

Those that do good, as dictated by the Manifestation of God for the Age will “attain onto salvation”, will undergo a “resurrection of life”

And those that don’t will go unto a “resurrection of damnation”

Life and death in religious scripture VERY RARELY has anything to do with physical life and death, so seeing, and hearing of Baha’u’llah is irrelevant, as it was during the early days of Jesus first coming.

When Jesus first came, no-one knew of Him hardly, and yet it was the End Times.

Today, we are in another End Times, the one of Baha’u’llah. Those that reject His teachings are in damnation, and we can see evidence of this rejection throughout the globe today.

Hope that makes sense?

.
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Ok we heard your thoughts. Very illuminating! Let me summarize- when Krishna came, everybody died and end times began, when Jesus came everybody died and end times started again. And when Bahaullah came everybody died again and another end times started. (And when Muhammad came?) Very strange stuff indeed!

What do you say Tony? Is somebody else going to come and start another end times or was Bahaullah the last and final one? And what about the Return of the Christ and Return of the Mahdi? Has that happened or still to occur?
 
openmind77 said:
OK, OK Mr Tony. it definitely sounds like a miracle. However, the ability to perform miracles is special, but it is not that unique - there have always been people in India who have demonstrated miracles and many more who have claimed them.

But coming back to the topic, I think your intention in starting the thread is to claim that the end times started with the coming of Bahuallah, unfortunately most of the 6 billion people on this planet do not believe this. Most of them have not even heard about Bahaullah or the Bab.

However, there are millions of people in the world who think that the end times are occurring right now and none of them (other than the Bahai) believe it has anything to do with Bahaullah. The Christians who believe this, expect the Christ (as well as the AntiChrist) to appear soon and the Muslims believe the Imam Mahdi will appear soon.

What do you believe? That Bahaullah represents in some way the Return of the Christ or the Return of the Mahdi or Both?
Click to expand...
Good Question 😉 Baha’u’llah is the return of all the Prophets, they are all the First and the Last. They are all the embodiment of the Holy Spirit all Given a specific Message and Station.

The Bible hints that the Christians will not be the First to believe, but eventually they will recognize Baha’u’llah. These Bible passages worth a thought

1 Thessalonians 4:16 “For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first”.

Matthew 20:16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”

Matthew 19:30 “But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first”.

Mark 10:31 “But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”

Luke 13:30 “Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last.”

New International Version

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
openmind77 said:
OK, OK Mr Tony. it definitely sounds like a miracle. However, the ability to perform miracles is special, but it is not that unique - there have always been people in India who have demonstrated miracles and many more who have claimed them.
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Dear openmind77 - This is exactly why Baha’u’llah states do not use miracles as a Proof of a Prophet - I just posted one of the most amazing events in History, but will it make any one Believe in the Bab? In fact it was witnessed by tens of thousands of People and then disasters happen right after, did it change their Hearts - No

Thus we will not go out of our way to produce these events, if one thinks they will be of use they are available in Baha’i literature. They are recorded for interest reasons only. I can assure you it is not why I became a Baha’i’

This is why God renews His Word and gives a fresh impulse into religion. Hearts are not changed by a Miracle Show, they are changed by sacrifice for the Love of God.

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
openmind77 said:
What do you say Tony? Is somebody else going to come and start another end times or was Bahaullah the last and final one? And what about the Return of the Christ and Return of the Mahdi? Has that happened or still to occur?
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Dear openmind77 - Religions like the world go through Cycles.

Muhammad was the Last or Seal of the Prophets for the Adamic Cycle. All the Prophets from Adam to Muhammad were ushering in the Day of God. The Bab ushered in the Day of Fulfillment and Baha’u’llah gave us all we needed to achieve it.

A New cycle has begun which will go for 500,00 years. Baha’u’llah states the next Prophet will not appear before the expiration of a full thousand years has elapsed. The Covenant of Baha’u’llah will take the Faith through the next thousand years as One Faith under the one God.

God Bless and Regards Tony

Man has a long way to evolve to what God has destined us to be.
 
tonyfish58 said:
Good Question 😉 Baha’u’llah is the return of all the Prophets, they are all the First and the Last. They are all the embodiment of the Holy Spirit all Given a specific Message and Station.

The Bible hints that the Christians will not be the First to believe, but eventually they will recognize Baha’u’llah. These Bible passages worth a thought

1 Thessalonians 4:16 “For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first”.

Matthew 20:16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”

Matthew 19:30 “But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first”.

Mark 10:31 “But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”

Luke 13:30 “Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last.”

New International Version

God Bless and Regards Tony
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I am sorry to say Tony that you are living in a dreamworld. I am not saying Bahaullah was not a prophet, but you are making him out to be much more than he ever will be. Even Justin Bieber has 50 million followers, Bahaullah can not claim even 10 million.

Far from being First or Last, Bahaullah was just one among many.

Bahais and Ahmadis really need to get together and compare notes to figure out how to disabuse themselves of this misconception of following a World Savior. Get out of this dreamworld with some dignity so that your religion can survive when the real World Savior shows up.

But to get back to the topic, these are indeed the end times. The Christ as well as the Imam Mahdi will return soon and they will surprise us all including both Christians and Muslims.
 
openmind77 said:
I am sorry to say Tony that you are living in a dreamworld. I am not saying Bahaullah was not a prophet, but you are making him out to be much more than he ever will be. Even Justin Bieber has 50 million followers, Bahaullah can not claim even 10 million.

Far from being First or Last, Bahaullah was just one among many.

Bahais and Ahmadis really need to get together and compare notes to figure out how to disabuse themselves of this misconception of following a World Savior. Get out of this dreamworld with some dignity so that your religion can survive when the real World Savior shows up.

But to get back to the topic, these are indeed the end times. The Christ as well as the Imam Mahdi will return soon and they will surprise us all including both Christians and Muslims.
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:confused:

😃

After all that rational explanation, you went back to the things of this transient world.

Is God a popularity contest ??

Does God come here, perform endless proofs so as to remove all our free will, just so He can be more popular than Bieber??

Don’t you think your reasoning relating to popularity is comical slightly?

.
 
openmind77 said:
I am sorry to say Tony that you are living in a dreamworld.
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Thank you dear openmind77, that is the best thing anyone has said to me in a long time ;)👍

And what a dream it is - Funny thing is all I need to make the dream come true is already recorded by the Pen of Baha’ullah, Abdul’Baha and Shoghi Effendi.

All that the world will now face is recorded in their writings.

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
Servant19 said:
:confused:

😃

After all that rational explanation, you went back to the things of this transient world.

Is God a popularity contest ??

Does God come here, perform endless proofs so as to remove all our free will, just so He can be more popular than Bieber??

Don’t you think your reasoning relating to popularity is comical slightly?

.
Click to expand...
It does not matter what I think. Six billion people do not think Bahaullah is a World Savior, in fact they have never heard of him and if you cannot get them to listen in this internet age of instant communication, they will never hear about him ever. Just accept that and try to move on.

There is nothing wrong in following Bahaullah and having your own religion, but imagining that he is the Savior for all humanity, will just cause immense disappointment when the real Savior shows up.
 
openmind77 said:
It does not matter what I think.
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Of course it does. When I said every single person on earth is spiritually dead in need of a resurrection, it applies to every single person on earth, you and me.

You seem stuck on the ebbs and flows of popularity.

This is your Judgement Day.

If everyone is jumping off a bridge to death, including all the Bieber fans, would you follow?

😉

.
 
openmind77 said:
There is nothing wrong in following Bahaullah and having your own religion, but imagining that he is the Savior for all humanity, will just cause immense disappointment when the real Savior shows up.
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I personally think the idea of a Saviour who will come along and SUDDENLY we have no free will any more and are chained as prisoners to the moral code of God with no other options is a…

…dreamworld…sorry

🙂

.
 
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