End Times Speculation - A Different View

[Servant19]

1. Just a few years - maybe seven (the Savior will get here in the middle of this period)
2. Nobody lives eternally in a physical body. You will just have your normal life span.
3. Of course, you can have children. Nothing changes except that the Savior is here and the ‘goats’ are gone.
4. Those born after the Judgment period will already be ones who will pass the Judgment tests (ie no more goats will be allowed to take birth). - To see who are goats, read Matthew 25:31-46

Thankyou

So when you say, “no more goats will be allowed to take birth” are you implying that we are born either a goat or a sheep (as defined in Matthew 25)?

Thanks again.

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[openmind77]

Thankyou

So when you say, “no more goats will be allowed to take birth” are you implying that we are born either a goat or a sheep (as defined in Matthew 25)?

Thanks again.

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We are definitely born with some tendencies (you should remember that I believe in reincarnation and past lives).

But we do develop these tendencies as we grow and develop - become more of a sheep or more of a goat.

 

[Servant19]

We are definitely born with some tendencies (you should remember that I believe in reincarnation and past lives).

But we do develop these tendencies as we grow and develop - become more of a sheep or more of a goat.

So what happens when the Saviour has gone after 7 or so years, and my wife (a lovely sheep, loyal and true) gives birth to a child to who becomes a horrible goat?

What happens to my child then?

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[openmind77]

So what happens when the Saviour has gone after 7 or so years, and my wife (a lovely sheep, loyal and true) gives birth to a child to who becomes a horrible goat?

What happens to my child then?

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The Judgment Day lasts for seven years, but the Savior will be here for a long time after that - some Christians say a 1000 years, I think it will be even longer.

The conditions will be such with His presence that it will be very, very difficult to become a goat (but there will always be a few exceptions - the temporal world is never perfect).

If your child is unfortunately one of those exceptions, he/she will not last very long (such people will be so lonely, they will not want to live long in this world - does not mean he will be exterminated)

 

[tonyfish58]

Well we are definitely getting the alternate view of the End Times.

The simplest and most pure spiritual explanation is thrown out the door and the most Miraculous conceptions with a literal aspect are embraced with a passion

If any one is watching the news and has seen what has been said by America the last couple of days, this Baha’i Scripture becomes worth considering in this our day of Judgement.

“The Great Being, wishing to reveal the prerequisites of the peace and tranquillity of the world and the advancement of its peoples, hath written: The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-embracing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world’s Great Peace amongst men. Such a peace demandeth that the Great Powers should resolve, for the sake of the tranquillity of the peoples of the earth, to be fully reconciled among themselves. Should any king take up arms against another, all should unitedly arise and prevent him. If this be done, the nations of the world will no longer require any armaments, except for the purpose of preserving the security of their realms and of maintaining internal order within their territories. This will ensure the peace and composure of every people, government and nation. We fain would hope that the kings and rulers of the earth, the mirrors of the gracious and almighty name of God, may attain unto this station, and shield mankind from the onslaught of tyranny.…” reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/GWB/gwb-117.html

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[Servant19]

The Judgment Day lasts for seven years, but the Savior will be here for a long time after that - some Christians say a 1000 years, I think it will be even longer.

The conditions will be such with His presence that it will be very, very difficult to become a goat (but there will always be a few exceptions - the temporal world is never perfect).

If your child is unfortunately one of those exceptions, he/she will not last very long (such people will be so lonely, they will not want to live long in this world - does not mean he will be exterminated)

Thanks openmind. I’m getting a picture of where you are coming from. Would you mind sharing what you understand from the passage in the Bhagavad Gita that I quoted earlier, in light of this picture of the Judgement Day you are painting here?

I will quote it again for your reference:

When righteousness is weak and faints And unrighteousness exalts in pride, Then my Spirit arises on earth. For the salvation of those who are good, For the destruction of evil in men, For the fulfillment of the kingdom of righteousness I come to this world from age to age.

Do you understand Lord Krishna as a Saviour too?

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[openmind77]

Thanks openmind. I’m getting a picture of where you are coming from. Would you mind sharing what you understand from the passage in the Bhagavad Gita that I quoted earlier, in light of this picture of the Judgement Day you are painting here?

I will quote it again for your reference:

Do you understand Lord Krishna as a Saviour too?

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Yes. We usually call them Avatars, but Savior seems more non-denominational

The passage is just saying that such Saviors/Avatars come to earth regularly to help establish righteousness here on earth.

 

[Servant19]

Yes. We usually call them Avatars, but Savior seems more non-denominational

The passage is just saying that such Saviors/Avatars come to earth regularly to help establish righteousness here on earth.

So where was the righteousness that Krishna restored?

Where was the righteousness that Jesus restored? (I recall you calling Jesus a Saviour/Avatar previously)

Where is the Judgment of these Saviours?
Who were the “goats” of Jesus time? Were the Pharisees not “goats”? Why did they survive? Were the Caesar’s not goats? Why did they survive?
I can point to “goats” (thousands of them) that lived every day since the Saviour, Jesus, came to earth up to this very day. Why were ONLY the sheep not remaining?

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[tonyfish58]

Yes. We usually call them Avatars, but Savior seems more non-denominational

The passage is just saying that such Saviors/Avatars come to earth regularly to help establish righteousness here on earth.

The succession of revelations of the Divine also appears as an implicit—and usually
explicit—feature of all the major faiths. One of its earliest and clearest expressions occurs in
the Bhagavad-Gita:

“I come, and go, and come. When Righteousness declines, O Bharata!
When Wickedness is strong, I rise, from age to age, and take visible shape, and move a man
with men, succouring the good, thrusting the evil back, and setting Virtue on her seat again.”
Chapter IV - Sir Edward Arnold Translation

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[openmind77]

The succession of revelations of the Divine also appears as an implicit—and usually
explicit—feature of all the major faiths. One of its earliest and clearest expressions occurs in
the Bhagavad-Gita:

“I come, and go, and come. When Righteousness declines, O Bharata!
When Wickedness is strong, I rise, from age to age, and take visible shape, and move a man
with men, succouring the good, thrusting the evil back, and setting Virtue on her seat again.”
Chapter IV - Sir Edward Arnold Translation

God Bless and Regards Tony

Since you Bahai seem to understand this theory of Avatars so well - that the Divine incarnates periodically on earth in every Age to establish and preserve righteousness, why do you insist on spreading this nonsense about the ‘final’ Prophet, the ‘final’ Incarnation, the ‘last’ Messenger etc?

Just as scientific discoveries will continue and revolutionary scientists like Einstein keep on being born, spiritual truths will continue to be revealed and Divine Incarnations will continue to occur till the End of World (which as scientists will tell you is millions of years away). So there are hundreds, if not thousands of Divine Incarnations still to occur.

Currently we are just waiting for the next One, but he will by no means be the the Last and Final One.

 

[peace_at_last]

Over 700 bullets and not one hit the Bab. Not shot by the local carpenters, but by an elite regiment of the Persian Army. And you call that just luck?

You are a fascinating man my friend

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Truly Fascinating. The Bab is bounded and hanging by a rope and a bullets rips the rope and he falls down and runs off to a room while from behind the screen the smoke has created, the soldiers are shooting at an empty wall. The story would have been believable if the Bab was still hanging by the rope unscathed when the smoke cleared or the second group of soldiers had missed too.

You said Baha’u’llah had miracles. I’m still waiting for those miracles.

 

[Servant19]

Since you Bahai seem to understand this theory of Avatars so well - that the Divine incarnates periodically on earth in every Age to establish and preserve righteousness, why do you insist on spreading this nonsense about the ‘final’ Prophet, the ‘final’ Incarnation, the ‘last’ Messenger etc?

Just as scientific discoveries will continue and revolutionary scientists like Einstein keep on being born, spiritual truths will continue to be revealed and Divine Incarnations will continue to occur till the End of World (which as scientists will tell you is millions of years away). So there are hundreds, if not thousands of Divine Incarnations still to occur.

Currently we are just waiting for the next One, but he will by no means be the the Last and Final One.

Please can you show one instance where Baha’is have used the word “final” in relation to Avatars/Manifestations of God. The whole purpose of the Bahai Faith is to create an ever advancing civilization, there is no finality. Baha’u’llah states He will be followed by future Manifestations of God. So I’m confused or maybe you are confused …

I would also appreciate your answers to my question about why Jesus came and goats still remain please

Thankyou

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[openmind77]

Please can you show one instance where Baha’is have used the word “final” in relation to Avatars/Manifestations of God. The whole purpose of the Bahai Faith is to create an ever advancing civilization, there is no finality. Baha’u’llah states He will be followed by future Manifestations of God. So I’m confused or maybe you are confused …

I would also appreciate your answers to my question about why Jesus came and goats still remain please

Thankyou

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Just because a Savior appears that does not mean goats are banished. However, this time around, the time has come to banish them (if you read a little more about the concept of yugas, you may understand). There was no Judgment Day when Jesus cam last time.I am not sure where you asked this before.

The Koran says Muhammad is the last and final Prophet sent by God and the Bahai believe that, yes or no?

 

[Servant19]

Truly Fascinating. The Bab is bounded and hanging by a rope and a bullets rips the rope and he falls down and runs off to a room while from behind the screen the smoke has created, the soldiers are shooting at an empty wall. The story would have been believable if the Bab was still hanging by the rope unscathed when the smoke cleared or the second group of soldiers had missed too.

You said Baha’u’llah had miracles. I’m still waiting for those miracles.

I think you are fascinating because you are ignoring the fact that one the Babs chief apostles, Anis, was also hanging to be shot by the firing squad. He too was unscathed by the 700 bullets but left hanging still when the smoke cleared.

For Baha’u’llah, you gotta read more than google. It’s a religion for those who want to find God, not for those who await God to dangle miracles in their faces.



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[Servant19]

Just because a Savior appears that does not mean goats are banished. However, this time around, the time has come to banish them (if you read a little more about the concept of yugas, you may understand). I am not sure where you asked this before.

What is the basis for your decision that this time the goats will be banished?

Jewish Scripture dictates that when the Messiah comes peace and security will be established for all, forever.

Why did this not occur when Jesus came?

The Koran says Muhammad is the last and final Prophet sent by God and the Bahai believe that, yes or no?

No

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[openmind77]

What is the basis for your decision that this time the goats will be banished?

Jewish Scripture dictates that when the Messiah comes peace and security will be established for all, forever.

Why did this not occur when Jesus came?

No

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Ok, I stand corrected - according to the Bahai, Muhammad was not the last or final Prophet.

The Christ himself said (Matthew 25:31-44) that when the next time he comes, the goats will be banished (why should it be my decision).

And the next time has arrived. After the goats are banished, peace and security will indeed be established, pretty much forever (the goats are the main cause of lack of peace).

Why do you keep asking why it did happen last time Jesus came ? - I already said it does not happen each time a Savior comes. But it is scheduled to happen now (it is a new yuga - read about them instead of just your tablets).

 

[peace_at_last]

I think you are fascinating because you are ignoring the fact that one the Babs chief apostles, Anis, was also hanging to be shot by the firing squad. He too was unscathed by the 700 bullets but left hanging still when the smoke cleared.

For Baha’u’llah, you gotta read more than google. It’s a religion for those who want to find God, not for those who await God to dangle miracles in their faces.



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I checked the wikipedia source and it seems you just made up a new story.

I ask you again: You clearly stated Baha’u’llah had miracles. Show me those miracles.

 

[Servant19]

Ok, I stand corrected - according to the Bahai, Muhammad was not the last or final Prophet.

The Christ himself said (Matthew 25:31-44) that when the next time he comes, the goats will be banished (why should it be my decision).

And the next time has arrived. After the goats are banished, peace and security will indeed be established, pretty much forever (the goats are the main cause of lack of peace).

Do you not consider the words of Mosaic Scripture valid about the Messiah?

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[Servant19]

I checked the wikipedia source and it seems you just made up a new story.

I ask you again: You clearly stated Baha’u’llah had miracles. Show me those miracles.

O dear Lord, I will pray for your research. Did you google the phrase “Anis Bab martyrdom”?

Edit:
I also just read the Wikipedia article and there is an account from an onlooking Muslim cleric who talks about Anis. You are clearly here to stir trouble, my friend.

I however will lovingly guide you in any way I can.



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[peace_at_last]

O dear Lord, I will pray for your research. Did you google the phrase “Anis Bab martyrdom”?

Edit:
I also just read the Wikipedia article and there is an account from an onlooking Muslim cleric who talks about Anis. You are clearly here to stir trouble, my friend.

I however will lovingly guide you in any way I can.



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What are you talking about? Who denied the existence of Anis?!

You said Anis was left **hanging ** and unscathed, and that is a story you made up. Yes I Googled again and here:
“The lifeless body of the disciple, indeed, riddled with bullets, swung to and fro in the air, but of the Báb no trace nor sign was visible” (Religious Systems of the World, EG Browne)

Now instead of dodging my request: I repeat again: YOU SAID BAHA’U’LLAH HAD MIRACLES, show me those miracles.