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PBP
Guest
Our pastor made this point in a recent homily. We need to feed the hungry before preaching to them…mercy and ministry needs to make a comeback. Yall have a great day.
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newbetx
Guest
As usual. It contains the word “sex” in the title…Not having sex before marriage really isn’t a perspective. But, I think that it went really awry in just a matter of minutes!
Posters have a choice… “lead the willing” or “smack!” Some can not resist the latter. oops. Guess I’m guilty as charged…
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whatevergirl
Guest
It was perceived that way. (man as spiritual household leader I believe…don’t quote me though…just guessing)
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jmcrae
Guest
The fact that children follow their father’s religion; not their mother’s.
(This is a well known fact of child psychology, and has nothing to do with “chauvinism.”)
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agapewolf
Guest
I’m the one that stated it…and I am female. There is no “male cheuvenism”. Again, as I’ve stated repeatedly, its scriptural, and a basic understanding of marriage, especially in theology of the body.
Its in Eph 5
Its in Eph 5
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whatevergirl
Guest
Yes, I agree with you–I did in the above post. (scrolling back)
Just guessing at why that was said.
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Sina
Guest
Totally off topic, and maybe there was already a thread on this but I can bet that part of this “child psychology” to follow more in one’s father’s religious footsteps has more than a little to do with a male dominated culture.
Culturally, children have taken on “religious citizenship” based on their father’s religion.
Sorry again for derailing. Back to Engaged sex.
Culturally, children have taken on “religious citizenship” based on their father’s religion.
Sorry again for derailing. Back to Engaged sex.
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whatevergirl
Guest
Could be – hmmm SINA! We need a new thread on that…hint hint
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PBP
Guest
Ephesians 5:21-33
This is beautiful text on marriage that too often stops at verse 24. I dont think his intent was to be dominanting, it can be rather difficult sometimes to explain on this forum.
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hasikelee
Guest
Princess,
I made no judgment of your or your partner (two people I have never even met). The only thing I commented on was the post you started.
Asking for anonymous help can be hard at times…we can only go off what you give us in media format.
I’m sorry you decided my post was the tipping point in closing discussion. It’s a very worthwhile discussion to continue. You are asking questions to yourself and your partner…why not continue to ask them before you have to ask them because a condom fails, or a relationship becomes broken, or a person feels misunderstood and hurt.
You stated that this discovery began on a religious foundation and blessed are you. Some of us, such as me, aren’t on such a noble pathway of discovery. I came to understand certain facts of life and love through science and statistics. Of course, this has pointed me towards our Catholic Faith.
So I find myself at once admirable of you, that you would do something simply on blind faith, and yet puzzled, that you are missing so many other facts that aren’t even religious.
The crux of the issue, as you continue to state, is that he doesn’t share the same religious beliefs or values as you do, and thus your desire to stop sexual intimacy is hurtful to him. The only reason I posted on this thread was to give you a heads up that plenty of nonreligious people in the world understand that premarital sex is harmful for many other reasons.
Pregnancy, emotional immaturity, psychological issues, health issues, financial commitments, scandal, parental pressures…these are all things that don’t have much to do with religion, yet they are a strong reason not to have sex before marriage.
My goal in posting was to give you a broader perspective, so that in turn you could present other ideas to your partner. So he doesn’t get the religious “sin” deal. Fine. Does he get out of wedlock pregnancy? Does he understand the statistics for cohabitating before marriage?
I made no judgment of your or your partner (two people I have never even met). The only thing I commented on was the post you started.
Asking for anonymous help can be hard at times…we can only go off what you give us in media format.
I’m sorry you decided my post was the tipping point in closing discussion. It’s a very worthwhile discussion to continue. You are asking questions to yourself and your partner…why not continue to ask them before you have to ask them because a condom fails, or a relationship becomes broken, or a person feels misunderstood and hurt.
You stated that this discovery began on a religious foundation and blessed are you. Some of us, such as me, aren’t on such a noble pathway of discovery. I came to understand certain facts of life and love through science and statistics. Of course, this has pointed me towards our Catholic Faith.
So I find myself at once admirable of you, that you would do something simply on blind faith, and yet puzzled, that you are missing so many other facts that aren’t even religious.
The crux of the issue, as you continue to state, is that he doesn’t share the same religious beliefs or values as you do, and thus your desire to stop sexual intimacy is hurtful to him. The only reason I posted on this thread was to give you a heads up that plenty of nonreligious people in the world understand that premarital sex is harmful for many other reasons.
Pregnancy, emotional immaturity, psychological issues, health issues, financial commitments, scandal, parental pressures…these are all things that don’t have much to do with religion, yet they are a strong reason not to have sex before marriage.
My goal in posting was to give you a broader perspective, so that in turn you could present other ideas to your partner. So he doesn’t get the religious “sin” deal. Fine. Does he get out of wedlock pregnancy? Does he understand the statistics for cohabitating before marriage?
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teme
Guest
My concern is in no way related to any perceived or actual male cheuvanism. The problem rests larger than that.
At least one person has suggested Princess’s fiance will be unfaithful after marriage. Several people have insinuated that Princess’s fiance may not be the right choice because he’s neither Catholic nor a virgin. Many more posts have tones filled with condescending, rather than charitable tones. If I were her, I wouldn’t have heard much of the valuable advice in light of the slaps in the face she has received. I, a man, perceived all these negatives in the posts I have read. Imagine how this was received by someone in love, looking to change and be holy, and seeking advice from a long-distant Catholic community.
At least one person has suggested Princess’s fiance will be unfaithful after marriage. Several people have insinuated that Princess’s fiance may not be the right choice because he’s neither Catholic nor a virgin. Many more posts have tones filled with condescending, rather than charitable tones. If I were her, I wouldn’t have heard much of the valuable advice in light of the slaps in the face she has received. I, a man, perceived all these negatives in the posts I have read. Imagine how this was received by someone in love, looking to change and be holy, and seeking advice from a long-distant Catholic community.
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agapewolf
Guest
Nope…this is actual a very profound understanding of what children learn from father and what they learn from mother.
The father is the bucket, (the boundaries), and the mother is the liquid. I can’t go into the whole gammut of things here on why it works this way, but its the very nature of God’s design in us. God is a FATHER…there is a reason for that. Our unique relationship with Him is given its nature by a relationship with a father. We are not gender neutral. our bodies are not shells, they are actual manifestations of who we are. We are complementary, and not exactly the same.
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Princess18
Guest
Thank you to those of you who have emailed me. I’m still reading and very much appreciate what you have to share. I’m just not going to bicker back and forth with anyone who’d rather focus on how horrible they’re convinced my future spouse is. He’s not. I posted about me, and how horrible I feel I am being, and how I can best deal with these feelings. He’s not oppressive, selfish, ignorant, unwilling, uncompromising, or anything else negative. He’ll do whatever I decide on because it makes me happy. That’s what he does. He probably won’t even argue about it. He’ll hug me and tell me that if it’s important to me, he’ll do it, because he loves me. Then he’ll tell me that he thanks God every day for blessing him with me, his Princess. This is the norm in my house. I am the one stirring the pot. I just don’t want to abuse the fact that I essentially have the power here. I don’t feel good about hurting him.
I answered this in an private message and it bears repeating. I prayed and prayed and prayed for a man who would love me unconditionally, love my future children, and protect me from all the evil in the world, including self hate and self destruction. Who knew that God would send me a non-Catholic? Maybe he’ll convert one day, maybe not. I just know that my life is leaps and bounds better than I could have ever expected, more than I ever hoped for. I never would have even thought about coming back to the church if it wasn’t for him. He is neither selfish nor unwilling to abstain. He is not the problem.
If you want to scold me for considering moving forward in sin when I know it’s wrong, fine. But he’s not the one asking me to do it. If you want to tell me horrible I am for being a lapsed Catholic, fine. But don’t preach about how horrible and lacking non-Catholics are.
I suspected there were other people out there with my same dilemma, and I was right. They’ve posted here and PM’d me. The ones that are making me regret posting are the ones who are addressing everything but the issue I brought up.
I answered this in an private message and it bears repeating. I prayed and prayed and prayed for a man who would love me unconditionally, love my future children, and protect me from all the evil in the world, including self hate and self destruction. Who knew that God would send me a non-Catholic? Maybe he’ll convert one day, maybe not. I just know that my life is leaps and bounds better than I could have ever expected, more than I ever hoped for. I never would have even thought about coming back to the church if it wasn’t for him. He is neither selfish nor unwilling to abstain. He is not the problem.
If you want to scold me for considering moving forward in sin when I know it’s wrong, fine. But he’s not the one asking me to do it. If you want to tell me horrible I am for being a lapsed Catholic, fine. But don’t preach about how horrible and lacking non-Catholics are.
I suspected there were other people out there with my same dilemma, and I was right. They’ve posted here and PM’d me. The ones that are making me regret posting are the ones who are addressing everything but the issue I brought up.
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Sina
Guest
It’s not that I am totally discounting what you guys are saying about the Father Figure in the Household… in fact, a good Anglican ( I guess it’s called Espiscopalian in the USA? ) friend of mine said she always struggled with those peices of the Bible where she must honour and obey her husband.
She prayed and prayed about it and then came to a realization that if your husband is a man of faith and he loves you, why wouldn’t you honour and obey everything he asks of you? Why would he lead you to wrongfullness if he is in fact a strong Christian man?
That “interpretation” by my protestant friend was reasonable to me.
She prayed and prayed about it and then came to a realization that if your husband is a man of faith and he loves you, why wouldn’t you honour and obey everything he asks of you? Why would he lead you to wrongfullness if he is in fact a strong Christian man?
That “interpretation” by my protestant friend was reasonable to me.
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agapewolf
Guest
Sina, I think you are mixing 2 different things.
First, in EPH 5, it says that wives should be subordinate (which means UNDER THE MISSION OF) her husband. And husbands should love their wives as Christ loves the church (he died for the Church). So, the husbands mission is to love his wife, and the wife, by being under his mission, needs to allow her husband to love her. Who has the more difficult job here? This is actually placing women as the prized dignity that they are in a very high place. This is not demeaning to women in any way.
This is the understanding of theology of the body. How could anyone struggle with “honoring” their spouse?
Now, the psychology of children learning different things from the father and mother is, although a little related, somewhat of a different subject. But again, its not chevanistic…this is real psychology. And when I first stated it, I did leave it that there are exceptions, but because it isn’t the natural God designed way, that it is a lot more difficult.
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stadre
Guest
Princess, I am happy you are still here. I do hope you continue to read and consider some of the great advice you’ve been given.
I want to second the suggestion to listen to Jason Everett. The link was already posted, but you can also find it at the top of the screen (Chastity). He and his (now) wife give a great talk–one version is for Catholics and one is secular. I really think you would both gain a lot by listening it together.
I also want to address the closeness you are feeling. I wonder if you are praying together. Praying together can feel even closer than the marital act. You might be able to work to develop other areas of your relationship and find that you don’t need this one as much.
You also mentioned the big wedding. I know your families have their hearts set on the big production, but maybe you and H2B don’t really need that. Maybe the two of you are ready to be married as soon as possible. Your priest could assist you (if he also thinks it is possible). The most important part of the day is receiving the sacrament. If it is important enough to you to be married early, you won’t miss all the extras. I also have a feeling that your families won’t be too upset if you tell them the reasons for such a decision.
I hope this is being read with the same feeling and consideration as I am writing. Actually, I think you both sound extremely mature and committed to each other. What a blessing that you were open to the presentations in your EE! And what a great tool you’ve learned for communicating as you discern the path you will take until your wedding day! May God bless you both abundantly!
I want to second the suggestion to listen to Jason Everett. The link was already posted, but you can also find it at the top of the screen (Chastity). He and his (now) wife give a great talk–one version is for Catholics and one is secular. I really think you would both gain a lot by listening it together.
I also want to address the closeness you are feeling. I wonder if you are praying together. Praying together can feel even closer than the marital act. You might be able to work to develop other areas of your relationship and find that you don’t need this one as much.
You also mentioned the big wedding. I know your families have their hearts set on the big production, but maybe you and H2B don’t really need that. Maybe the two of you are ready to be married as soon as possible. Your priest could assist you (if he also thinks it is possible). The most important part of the day is receiving the sacrament. If it is important enough to you to be married early, you won’t miss all the extras. I also have a feeling that your families won’t be too upset if you tell them the reasons for such a decision.
I hope this is being read with the same feeling and consideration as I am writing. Actually, I think you both sound extremely mature and committed to each other. What a blessing that you were open to the presentations in your EE! And what a great tool you’ve learned for communicating as you discern the path you will take until your wedding day! May God bless you both abundantly!
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newbetx
Guest
Princess,
I’m sorry your first experience with CAF has been somewhat unpleasant. Yes, there are many out there that know exactly how you feel. In fact, your fiance sounds a lot like the guy
that married my DW. I know exactly how your fiance feels. I am so blessed. And I’m happy for you both!
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Ne_OrangeKnight
Guest
Well, here’s the thing. Facts are pretty neutral. They can help, they can harm; it all depends. Now, I’m not disputing facts here. The real factor up for debate is compassion. If you throw out the wrong facts at the wrong times, people are going to get upset. And then trying to argue them out of their emotions isn’t going to be terribly fruitful.
For example, let’s say that you have a friend who just died and his wife if miserable. “Oh, I loved him so much. He was such a good man. I’ll never love again.” Would you say, “Well, don’t feel so bad; he wasn’t really as good as you thought. In fact, he had an affair a year ago that he never told you about. And, statistically speaking, you’re likely to get over him in less than 5 years; you just need to get back out there into the dating pool!” Those may be facts, but those facts really all that useful? Are they what she needs to hear?
Now, I like to be right, too. I like to defend myself, even to stupid levels. But sometimes we all really need to keep quiet.
Sam, the Neon Orange Knight
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Zelie_Louis
Guest
This is a reminder to everyone concerning the importance of tone when participating. We require charity when posting at CAF. Thank you for your cooperation.
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