EPA to ease back emissions standards

[MonteRCMS]

I like Planned Parenthood and have donated to them in the past.

Why??

[10 characters]

 

[Theo520]

Actually, I did not. Actually, buying a car does preclude giving those funds away. If I have $50k, I could buy a Lexus. I could also drill wells for water in Africa. If I buy a cheaper car, I can drill more well. If I walk. I can drill even more wells. All choices along that budget line are not equally virtuous.

Wow, your logic is really bad. Most people who can buy a lexus also have the funds to help build some wells in Africa. It’s not an either or decision, you are being very assumptive and judgemental.

Incidentally, why can’t people in Africa figure out how to dig their own wells?
I find it highly racist that you imagine you must be the one to come in and save them by drilling wells for them. And if you the Western Whitey doesn’t step in and do it, they’ll never get potable water…

Do you really think Africans are that incompetent?

 

[stinkcat_14]

…

 

[Raxus]

I like Planned Parenthood and have donated to them in the past.

Not much of a charitable response I can give to that. Know that I’ll be donating to an organization that actually cares about babies in response next paycheck.

 

[Raxus]

I’d be just as happy not to have a car, really.

You and me both. They’re an expense I wish I didn’t have to consider.

 

[Raxus]

So I take s pragmatic view on this issue.

They butcher babies. They butcher babies. They butcher babies.

Also, Planned Parenthood usually only does referrals. Actual women’s care facilities are better.

Also-also, abortion is not “women’s health.” Abortion is the murder of a human being in the womb.

if you think anything other than this: Ding-dong, you are wrong.

 

[Theo520]

If I have $50k to spend, I can spend it either on cars or wells, or some combination of both. If I have a $100k to spend, I can spend it on cars or wells or both. All of us have a finite amount of resources. That money which we spend on ourselves is money that we cannot spend on others. There is nothing illogical about that.

You are clearly making assumptions and judging people. You assume they bought the most expensive car they could afford.

I am glad you are offended. Deal with it. The gospel tells us that we will be judged on how we treat the least of us. In the area of economic resources, many people in Africa are among the least of us. Now, we can say that digging wells is their problem. Let them important the tools, let them import the supplies and import the skilled labor. Of course, they can do it, but it would take a long time. Part of the problem is that in some countries, girls and women are tasked with the job of getting water and firewood for the household. This is a job that can take hours. Girls growing up in households with access to water are more likely to attend school. Getting girls to attend school is a good thing. If I have the ability to help someone why shouldn’t I? How is my buying a new Lexus more virtuous than my helping someone who is in need.

If this makes me a racist, then I am proud of it.

So you are racist, Africa does have the resources to dig wells, and it wouldn’t take them long if they decided it was important.

You would have made a good colonial era missionary.

 

[stinkcat_14]

You are clearly making assumptions and judging people. You assume they bought the most expensive car they could afford.

Actually I am not making any assumptions. I am stating nothing but facts. Here they are spelled out so that you can understand them:

1. We all have a finite amount of resources. Even Jeff Bezos has a finite amount of resouces.
2. Money we spend on ourselves is money we cannot spend to help others.
3. As Christians we are called to help others.

So you are racist, Africa does have the resources to dig wells, and it wouldn’t take them long if they decided it was important.

You would have made a good colonial era missionary.

If it is wrong to help Africans, then why does the Catholic Church send missionaries to Africa. Why do priests from Africa come to my parish to preach and we take up a collection to help them? If helping others is morally wrong, then why does the Church do it?

 

[Theo520]

Well Bezos and Gates drive the best autos, have private jets, and still find cash to give to charities they care about. I’d say the same goes for most Americans. You assume everyone should drive the cheapest vehicle and give all their surplus to the poor, something not expected by the Church.

Tithing is a percent of your gross, not give everything above subsistence living.

I said you were expressing racist ideations, not that you were morally wrong. Many kindhearted people have racist beliefs.

Perhaps these priests that canvas your parish should be asked what they are doing to improve local governance? Africa has ample resources to take care of the the basic needs of their people

 

[stinkcat_14]

Well Bezos and Gates drive the best autos, have private jets, and still find cash to give to charities they care about. I’d say the same goes for most Americans. You assume everyone should drive the cheapest vehicle and give all their surplus to the poor, something not expected by the Church.

Actually, if they drove cheaper automobiles and lived in smaller homes, they would have more to give to the poor. That is just a basic fact. I never said someone should drive the cheapest vehicle possible and give all the surplus to the poor. I just said that there is a basic tradeoff. Anything I spend on me is money that I cannot spend on the poor.

Tithing is a percent of your gross, not give everything above subsistence living.

Of course, St Francis did the latter.

I said you were expressing racist ideations, not that you were morally wrong. Many kindhearted people have racist beliefs.

You are free to have whatever opinion you like. I am free not to care about your opinion.

Perhaps these priests that canvas your parish should be asked what they are doing to improve local governance? Africa has ample resources to take care of the the basic needs of their people

I agree that governance is important. On the other hand, just because people have stupid governments (after all, we have a prime example in the US) does not exempt us from our obligation to the poor. If I see a beggar on the streets of Africa, I should help him, not tell him to get a better political system. That is not going to feed him in the short run.

 

[Theo520]

With your logic Children’s services would always leave the kids with parents that are clearly shown to be incompetent Your approach is to keep dropping off food, clothing, and money for the kids knowing full well much of it is actually taken by the parents to support their bad habits.

 

[stinkcat_14]

With your logic Children’s services would always leave the kids with parents that are clearly shown to be incompetent Your approach is to keep dropping off food, clothing, and money for the kids knowing full well much of it is actually taken by the parents to support their bad habits.

Actually, never suggested any such thing.

 

[Theo520]

Actually, never suggested any such thing.

My analogy fits well with your reasoning. You keep donating money for the kids without addressing the elephant in the room - bad parents that effectively steal what you donate.

The parents can feed, clothe, and build wells for their kids, but you enable them to not meet their obligation.

 

[stinkcat_14]

My analogy fits well with your reasoning.

Here is what I said:

1. As Catholics we have an obligation to the least.
2. The more we spend on ourselves, the less we have to spend on others.

I never said that we have an obligation to reinforce bad behavior. Now, do you dispute either of the above two points? Stop deflecting and answer the question.

 

[stinkcat_14]

You keep donating money for the kids without addressing the elephant in the room - bad parents that effectively steal what you donate.

Actually, if you bothered to read what I said, I actually said governance is important. Now, I never said we owed a blank check to anyone. There is nothing in Church social teaching that suggests that because there is bad governance that we are exempt from our obligation to the poor. A beggar on the street of Nairobi is going to be hungry regardless of whether the government is corrupt or efficient. While we must be prudent in our assistance, we still have an obligation to the least among us. Whether they are in Africa, London or Washington.

 

[MonteRCMS]

Wow, your logic is really bad. Most people who can buy a lexus also have the funds to help build some wells in Africa. It’s not an either or decision, you are being very assumptive and judgemental.

Incidentally, why can’t people in Africa figure out how to dig their own wells?

I find it highly racist that you imagine you must be the one to come in and save them by drilling wells for them. And if you the Western Whitey doesn’t step in and do it, they’ll never get potable water…

Do you really think Africans are that incompetent?

Valid question.

Tribal allegiance comes FIRST.

Which is why if they come here they can give up the tribal “baloney”

One of my friends was able to masquerade as a member of the “in” tribe … but he was discovered. His family was killed … and someone took mercy on him and routed a Fulbright scholarship to him … and whispered: “take it!!”.

So, he took it … came here … sole surviving member of his family.

 

[Theo520]

Actually, if you bothered to read what I said, I actually said governance is important.

you give lip service to it, but that’s all. Neither you nor your ‘water well’ charity seems to be working to improve governance, you are effectively aiding in the stealing from the people.

I’d donate to a charity that got their govt to build wells, that is practicing subsidiarity and solidarity.

 

[stinkcat_14]

you give lip service to it, but that’s all. Neither you nor your ‘water well’ charity seems to be working to improve governance, you are effectively aiding in the stealing from the people.

There are two reasons why places like Africa are poor.

1. Lack of Resources (capital, human capital, infrastructure, entrepreneurship)
2. Governance issues.

Now, this thread is talking about economic resources. We are not talking about governance. There is nothing in Church teaching that says bad governance negates our obligation to the least among us. That doesn’t mean we ignore it, but we have an obligation to the least nonetheless.

If you think that the Church teaches that bad governance eliminates our obligation to the poor, then present the teaching.

 

[Theo520]

Capital seeks out investments where there is good governance, to reduce risk. If you improve governance, you improve access to capital.

Good governance builds infrastructure while bad governance steals the money intended for infrastructure.

Africa has both human capital and entrepreneurship.

It all flows back to governance issues, the white elephant in the room.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Africa has both human capital and entrepreneurship.

Ok. Let’s see the data. Provide the data on Africa’s human capital.

It all flows back to governance issues, the white elephant in the room.

I am not sure what your point is? I have never disputed that governance is not important. Don’t bring up governance again until you show me where lack of good governance exempts us from our Christian duty to help the least of us.