Episcopal Parish Petitions to Join the Ordinariate

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This may have already been posted but an Anglo Catholic Church in the The Episcopal Church will be contacting Archbishop Wuerl requesting to be received into the ordinariate. The Church is Mount Calvary in Baltimore (clergy and parishioners).

Holy Nativity in AZ (an ACA parish) has sent a letter of intent to Archbishop Wuerl.

I believe there is an EMC parish requesting this also.

Of course there are many more clergy individually and in groups interested in Europe, Canada and the US as well as parishioners and so on. The process is just beginning but things are starting to move now that Archbishop Wuerl has very recently been appointed in the US find out how many individuals, clergy, and organizations are interested in the ordinariate. As news of these churches beginning the process came in you could sense the excitement on the web site linked below as the long awaited reality of the ordinariates is taking shape.

It looks like Anglicans are beginning to head towards the waiting lifeboats to begin the journey home. And so it begins.

theanglocatholic.com
 
Yes I follow this issue very closely. A poster on CAF said her parish was coming in also, and I think she is in New Jersey.

It might grow faster than many naysayers are gloating about. At least it will finally be over and the Continuing Anglicans who are so anti Catholic (many are although they claim to be Catholic) will finally let go of their anger and turn towards their own problems with so many different Anglican groups. Hopefully for their sake they can find a way to unite as one, instead of finding fault with one another.

At least their wrath will be turned towards each other and not Anglicans joining the Ordinariate as they will consider us a lost cause.

It has turned out very sad with all the harsh feelings by some individual priests and who really don’t represent all of the Anglican groups. There has been anger on both sides and this should not ever have been as all claim to be Christians.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
 
I hope that parish get to keep their church building and money. But I wouldn’t count on it. There are some very mean and petty people in ECUSA. Many of them are wishy-washy liberal priests who don’t care if the Church gets into grief, as long as they end up in control of the Episcopal retirement funds. Witness all the lawsuits they’ve brought against ‘secessionist’ parishes and dioceses like Arizona. Seems Mrs Schori (a.k.a. Octopus woman) is determined to twist canon law and convert ECUSA into her private fan club. And Anglicans abroad should watch out too. Look at the way she’s been touring the Communion and setting herself up against ++Rowan.
 
RevDrNorth said:
This may have already been posted but an Anglo Catholic Church in the The Episcopal Church will be contacting Archbishop Wuerl requesting to be received into the ordinariate. The Church is Mount Calvary in Baltimore (clergy and parishioners).

Holy Nativity in AZ (an ACA parish) has sent a letter of intent to Archbishop Wuerl.

I believe there is an EMC parish requesting this also.

Of course there are many more clergy individually and in groups interested in Europe, Canada and the US as well as parishioners and so on. The process is just beginning but things are starting to move now that Archbishop Wuerl has very recently been appointed in the US find out how many individuals, clergy, and organizations are interested in the ordinariate. As news of these churches beginning the process came in you could sense the excitement on the web site linked below as the long awaited reality of the ordinariates is taking shape.

It looks like Anglicans are beginning to head towards the waiting lifeboats to begin the journey home. And so it begins.

theanglocatholic.com
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The Mount Calvary move is a pleasant surprise.

GKC
 
GKC said:
The Mount Calvary move is a pleasant surprise.

GKC
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Yes and probably just the beginning of many, though not neccessarily many from the TEC. I think the TEC has driven off most of the orthodox parishes and is imploding. While I think TEC’s glory days are over (as one TEC priest in a moderate or liberal TEC parish put it…the TEC has long since fallen off the social register and become the gay church to those outside), I do not think they will dissolve. At some point as they drop under the 2 mil mark in membership they will hit equalibrium (with church closures and selling off of assets such as seminary buildings etc as is currently under way).

So, I do not expect to see many more parishes from the TEC in the US but perhaps clergy and parishioners. Certainly, in the continuing movement there are likely more to be headed Romeward.
 
My rector and bishops said “thanks but no thanks” to those lifeboats and jumped on a newer Anglican ship called ACNA with a Southern Cone offboard motor :cool:

I think CAF posters tend to overstate the actual numbers of ordinariate converts. Anglo-Catholics are not that sizable in the U.S. compared to evangelicals. And many still want their autonomy, viewing jumping to the Catholic Church as a step in the wrong direction back to pre-Reformation days. My rector and bishop laughed when the ordinariates scenario kicked in not too long ago. The only people I’ve spoken to who are taking up the Pope on it are sporadic posters on here or online once in a while. I’d like to actually read some hard numbers.

The Catholics are striking while the iron is hot. Anglicanism is in a chaotic, embarrassing mess right now. But I think to assume that most Anglo-Catholics, just because they’re disgusted with the likes of Rowan and Schiori, are willing to go Catholic, too.
RevDrNorth said:
It looks like Anglicans are beginning to head towards the waiting lifeboats to begin the journey home. And so it begins.

theanglocatholic.com
Click to expand...
 
RevDrNorth said:
Yes and probably just the beginning of many, though not neccessarily many from the TEC. I think the TEC has driven off most of the orthodox parishes and is imploding. While I think TEC’s glory days are over (as one TEC priest in a moderate or liberal TEC parish put it…the TEC has long since fallen off the social register and become the gay church to those outside), I do not think they will dissolve. At some point as they drop under the 2 mil mark in membership they will hit equalibrium (with church closures and selling off of assets such as seminary buildings etc as is currently under way).

So, I do not expect to see many more parishes from the TEC in the US but perhaps clergy and parishioners. Certainly, in the continuing movement there are likely more to be headed Romeward.
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I agree. I surprised to see any such, from TEC. I generally consider the concept of “disaffected Episcopalian, still in TEC” to be in the unicorn category. As to the Continuers, I watch with interest.

GKC
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
My rector and bishops said “thanks but no thanks” to those lifeboats and jumped on a newer Anglican ship called ACNA with a Southern Cone offboard motor :cool:

I think CAF posters tend to overstate the actual numbers of ordinariate converts. Anglo-Catholics are not that sizable in the U.S. compared to evangelicals. And many still want their autonomy, viewing jumping to the Catholic Church as a step in the wrong direction back to pre-Reformation days. My rector and bishop laughed when the ordinariates scenario kicked in not too long ago. The only people I’ve spoken to who are taking up the Pope on it are sporadic posters on here or online once in a while. I’d like to actually read some hard numbers.

The Catholics are striking while the iron is hot. Anglicanism is in a chaotic, embarrassing mess right now. But I think to assume that most Anglo-Catholics, just because they’re disgusted with the likes of Rowan and Schiori, are willing to go Catholic, too.
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Scott,

Archbishop Wuerl of the Diocese of Washington D.C. has been appointed by the Vatican to get those hard numbers. They are to create a database of parishes, clergy and individuals who are interested or have declared they will come into communion. Up until now, no one knew how big or how small the response would be.

Scott, evangelicals like your Rector and Bishop will not cross the river. Also the Anglicans who think having a couple of candles and vestments means they are Catholic, will not cross either. As a Catholic in Anglican garb, I have unfortunately found many Anglicans who call themselves Catholic who are so thoroughly protestant in thought, theology, etc. etc. it is shocking.

Another thing that appears to be, is that Anglican clergy are more Catholic than most parishes. I have friends who are Rectors or serving in parishes who will be leaving their parishes behind with few if any going with them.

So in a few weeks or months, we will have the numbers so the ordinary of the Ordinariate, who has yet to be named, will be able to work with Archbishop Wuerl to organize the parishes. One of the great things about this is that some new parishes are in formation of Anglicans, Anglicans who are now Catholic and cradle Catholics. When I spoke to my contact in the Archbishop’s office, he told me this numbering would also help match clergy to new or existing parishes. So the foundation is being laid. The next step could be the naming of the Ordinary, regardless of how large or small the numbering reveals.

I will have to go and check my sources, but other TEC parishes have joined with the ACA to move towards Rome. One I believe in California and the other Kansas (which is being sued). I also know seminarians, Catholic and TEC, who have petitioned to join the Ordinariate.

One thing I learned in a Baptist Seminary on Church planting, most people are not pioneers or founders. Most are builders who will join a plant once they see it is workable. It takes a special daredevil type to blaze a path for others to follow. Most of us are not so inclined.

Blessings,

Fr. Mark
 
RevDrNorth said:
Yes and probably just the beginning of many, though not neccessarily many from the TEC. I think the TEC has driven off most of the orthodox parishes and is imploding. While I think TEC’s glory days are over (as one TEC priest in a moderate or liberal TEC parish put it…the TEC has long since fallen off the social register and become the gay church to those outside), I do not think they will dissolve. At some point as they drop under the 2 mil mark in membership they will hit equalibrium (with church closures and selling off of assets such as seminary buildings etc as is currently under way).

So, I do not expect to see many more parishes from the TEC in the US but perhaps clergy and parishioners. Certainly, in the continuing movement there are likely more to be headed Romeward.
Click to expand...
Go to www.virtueonline.org and read what The Very Rev. Kevin Martin of St Matthew’s in Dallas predicts is the future of TEC. Fr. Martin is in the TEC. In his interview he claims much what your friends claims. He predicts membership in the TEC will be about 1 million by 2020 and that the 20/20 plan of the TEC is a failure due to TEC’s apathy toward evangelism and bunker mentality. He claims most of the TEC leadership does not care to grow and the laity, mostly he claims as elderly, don’t want change. According to him the average age of an Episcopalian is mid 60’s and there is no one to replace them as they begin to die out.

An interesting interview found in the Living Church Oct 3 issue.

Fr. Mark
 
Much of what you say is true, as always, Father Mark. But I have to say that not all Anglicans are just posers in catholic garb. And we have this litmus test for catholicity but in reality how many Catholic priests are pseudo-calvinists or modern humanistic Enlightenment-tainted hippies too! Jumping the tiber doesn’t necessarily ensure good catholicity and a noble, faithfulness to the priesthood. My bishop is NOT an evangelical. My rector is more evangelical but on the other hand he has a high regard for the real presence of the Eucharist, the epiklesis, the office of priesthood vs. a calvinist view of it, he is a huge St. Francis of Assisi fan, makes sure the Eucharist is celebrated at every single Mass, reserves the Eucharist with reverence, is very cynical about divorce/remarriage, but yet holds a great deal of respect for Packer and some evangelicals. He is not into anglo-Catholicism. I’d characterize him as a middle of the roader broad churchminded fan. Bishop John-David Schofield is by no means an evangelical, Father Mark! I wanted to laugh when you said that. The guy talks on and on about Eucharistic encounters, believes in Transubstantiation, lived for several years in an Orthodox monastery, and is very anglo-catholic. But he’s no fan of Rome. When he and I have talked for hours on end, he has told me that the Vatican has courted him. They sent representatives from the Vatican to meet with him and ask him to convert. His over my dead body response pretty much ended that. He is of the opinion that jumping to the Roman Catholic Church isn’t the answer.
MarkBrown said:
Scott,

Archbishop Wuerl of the Diocese of Washington D.C. has been appointed by the Vatican to get those hard numbers. They are to create a database of parishes, clergy and individuals who are interested or have declared they will come into communion. Up until now, no one knew how big or how small the response would be.

Scott, evangelicals like your Rector and Bishop will not cross the river. Also the Anglicans who think having a couple of candles and vestments means they are Catholic, will not cross either. As a Catholic in Anglican garb, I have unfortunately found many Anglicans who call themselves Catholic who are so thoroughly protestant in thought, theology, etc. etc. it is shocking.

Another thing that appears to be, is that Anglican clergy are more Catholic than most parishes. I have friends who are Rectors or serving in parishes who will be leaving their parishes behind with few if any going with them.

So in a few weeks or months, we will have the numbers so the ordinary of the Ordinariate, who has yet to be named, will be able to work with Archbishop Wuerl to organize the parishes. One of the great things about this is that some new parishes are in formation of Anglicans, Anglicans who are now Catholic and cradle Catholics. When I spoke to my contact in the Archbishop’s office, he told me this numbering would also help match clergy to new or existing parishes. So the foundation is being laid. The next step could be the naming of the Ordinary, regardless of how large or small the numbering reveals.

I will have to go and check my sources, but other TEC parishes have joined with the ACA to move towards Rome. One I believe in California and the other Kansas (which is being sued). I also know seminarians, Catholic and TEC, who have petitioned to join the Ordinariate.

One thing I learned in a Baptist Seminary on Church planting, most people are not pioneers or founders. Most are builders who will join a plant once they see it is workable. It takes a special daredevil type to blaze a path for others to follow. Most of us are not so inclined.

Blessings,

Fr. Mark
Click to expand...
 
The problem with David Virtue is that he is a 24/7 the sky is falling evangelical Anglican and it’s nothing but negativity. No solutions. Just rants about the Schiori madness. We all know she’s crazy and running the TEC bus into the wall. David needs to move on and be productive. He’s bright and talented. But his stuff is vendetta and borderline annoying to me some days…He rails against people going back to the Roman Catholic Church, which in his mind is a step backwards unraveling all that the Reformers tried to clean up. And yet with his ranting and raving he does more for Catholic recruitment than Catholics do! :p:confused:
MarkBrown said:
Go to www.virtueonline.org and read what The Very Rev. Kevin Martin of St Matthew’s in Dallas predicts is the future of TEC. Fr. Martin is in the TEC. In his interview he claims much what your friends claims. He predicts membership in the TEC will be about 1 million by 2020 and that the 20/20 plan of the TEC is a failure due to TEC’s apathy toward evangelism and bunker mentality. He claims most of the TEC leadership does not care to grow and the laity, mostly he claims as elderly, don’t want change. According to him the average age of an Episcopalian is mid 60’s and there is no one to replace them as they begin to die out.

An interesting interview found in the Living Church Oct 3 issue.

Fr. Mark
Click to expand...
 
I’ve always thought, and I still do, that if orthodox Anglicans wish to maintain their unique witness to Christ, they must try to stick together as Anglicans. Rome has made clear that Ordinariate Anglicans will be under obligation to assimilate into their local Roman Catholic diocese. Even by the most optimistic estimates, the Ordinariates will still constitute a scattered minority within the Roman Communion. Their next generation of priests will inevitably be less Anglican and more mainstream Latin Rite in identity and outlook.

Rome simply cannot guarantee that everything of value within the Anglican patrimony will be preserved in the Ordinariates. Our Roman friends might well say: ‘It is wrong for Anglicans to cling to their own traditions rather than conform to the rest of the Western Church’. Very well. That’s the kind of rhetoric that was used at Whitby in 664. I make no substantive equations between the participants in that debate and those in the present situation, of course:p.
 
MarkBrown said:
Go to www.virtueonline.org and read what The Very Rev. Kevin Martin of St Matthew’s in Dallas predicts is the future of TEC. Fr. Martin is in the TEC. In his interview he claims much what your friends claims. He predicts membership in the TEC will be about 1 million by 2020 and that the 20/20 plan of the TEC is a failure due to TEC’s apathy toward evangelism and bunker mentality. He claims most of the TEC leadership does not care to grow and the laity, mostly he claims as elderly, don’t want change. According to him the average age of an Episcopalian is mid 60’s and there is no one to replace them as they begin to die out.

An interesting interview found in the Living Church Oct 3 issue.

Fr. Mark
Click to expand...
This is troubling indeed for the TEC. Evangelism is the one thing missing in my parish. We have people of all ages, families and such, but evangelism is the one thing that is missing.

Most mainline Protestant denominations are losing numbers or holding steady, but not gaining members. It seems that the more liberal a denomination is, the more it is losing numbers. Liberals simply do not have a message that resonates with modern Americans.

Religious progressives on the otherhand are often dismissed. Conservative voices dominate. Likewise, at one time, religious progressivism had a relevent message, fought social ills such as poverty and racism. Now progressivism is moving away from the Gospel, and is pressing for immorality (abortion, gay marriage etc…) no wonder they are losing relevence in the modern day.

If the TEC wants to be progressive, fine, but they have gone from being progressive to being out on Mars somewhere theologically. If they want to be an anti-dogmatic version of the Christian faith, fine, but truth is still truth.

If I were in charge of TEC, my selling point would be that of a anti-dogmatic, but Bible based gosple preaching Christianity. If the appeal of Catholicism is that it does not waiver from what it believes to be the truth, TEC’s appeal could be that it does not get into dogmatism-Catholicism without the Catholic guilt. Get rid of the far left wing stuff, but preach a progressive, socially relevant gospel.

But what do I know…
 
zdon011 said:
I’ve always thought, and I still do, that if orthodox Anglicans wish to maintain their unique witness to Christ, they must try to stick together as Anglicans. Rome has made clear that Ordinariate Anglicans will be under obligation to assimilate into their local Roman Catholic diocese. Even by the most optimistic estimates, the Ordinariates will still constitute a scattered minority within the Roman Communion. Their next generation of priests will inevitably be less Anglican and more mainstream Latin Rite in identity and outlook.

Rome simply cannot guarantee that everything of value within the Anglican patrimony will be preserved in the Ordinariates. Our Roman friends might well say: ‘It is wrong for Anglicans to cling to their own traditions rather than conform to the rest of the Western Church’. Very well. That’s the kind of rhetoric that was used at Whitby in 664. I make no substantive equations between the participants in that debate and those in the present situation, of course:p.
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The Holy Father has put it in writing in the Apostolic Constitution that Anglicans will have their own Ordinary and he will be equal to a Bishop. They will not be part of the local diocese and will deal directly with the CDF. Of course they will confer with the local Bishop. Some former Anglicans who are not married might even become Bishops. If you are stating that the Anglicans will be “Catholic” that is true, they will be fully Catholic, but just as the Eastern Rites are Catholic the same will be true of the Anglicans. It will not be intercommunion. They will still be under the Latin Rite, as Anglicans were before Henry the 8th. England was always part of the Latin Church.

The Anglican Use who has nothing in writing has been around over 28 years and has not been assimulated. as far as their Patrimony goes, into the local Catholic Church. Please do your research on this. They are part of the local diocese at this time, but will not be after the Ordinariate is established. We all will be one as Christ Himself declared.

This sounds like typical Anglican fears of one who doesn’t like the papacy and wants to be under no authority. It is obvious you have never spoken to any Anglican Use priests or anyone who is involved with the Cardinals or CDF in charge on the Ordinariates.

The Pope knows exactly what could happen as you have stated and he himself has made sure that the control is out of the hands of local dioceses. He has shown great affection for Anglicans and their traditions, as he calls them “treasures”, and is doing his best to bring back the traditions and reverence into the Latin Rite parishes.

If is wise not to make comments unless you have the facts. As a former Anglo Catholic I have found so many Anglicans that are very anti Catholic although claiming to be Anglo Catholic and even praying for the Pope in their liturgy.

No one who is going to enter the Ordinariate is pushing any other Anglicans to join and further more I would prefer that unless they accept the Catholic Faith fully they continue on as Anglicans. The Church doesn’t need more division than we have already seen.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
Much of what you say is true, as always, Father Mark. But I have to say that not all Anglicans are just posers in catholic garb. And we have this litmus test for catholicity but in reality how many Catholic priests are pseudo-calvinists or modern humanistic Enlightenment-tainted hippies too!
Click to expand...
Here is something interesting: I know a Calvinist-Evangelical-Hippy!
 
What is a Calvinist hippie anyway?

Peace, love, no war, man…oh, and total human depravity with a heavy dose of predestination, can yuh dig it man? 😛
Adam_Warlock said:
Bluegoat, I told you not to tell everyone what I really believe! 😃

/sarcasm
Click to expand...
 
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