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josie_L
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It’s what I haven’t heard/read that leads me to say this about Juncker.
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EU president’s praise for Catholic teaching welcomed as bishops urge citizens to vote in elections to stop "nationalist threat"
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Vouthon
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Surely we can’t incriminate people by “omission” or deduce what we think they would believe on that basis?
If I may ask, what “haven’t” you heard from Juncker that you would hope to have heard him say?
If I may ask, what “haven’t” you heard from Juncker that you would hope to have heard him say?
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Vouthon
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The EU has no legal competence in matters pertaining to family or marital law, so this is not relevant so far as European policy-making or legislation is concerned.social doctrines they rarely if ever refer to or advocate other doctrines of the Church vis a vis abortion, gay marriage, contracepting, communism
These matters are legislated on at the member state or national level and approaches to it differ widely between cultures, since we have morally conservative states like Malta where abortion is banned on one end and morally liberal states where it is freely accessible within the appropriate terms, on the other.
As for Communism, Juncker has certainly dealt with this topic in speeches if I recall. But again, don’t see why it would be relevant to his policy remit as EU Commission chief.
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josie_L
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I’m not a lawyer or a judge so the word “incriminate” is rather off putting and unnecessary. I can surmise and/or deduce based on acts of omission and failed opportunities that Juncker is like most other Catholic politicians who have been secularized but from temps en temps will bring up Catholic social doctrine to capture the Catholic vote.
Italy/Hungary is quite the thorn in the E.U.'s backside so colour me surprise that he should mention Catholic social doctrine.
Italy/Hungary is quite the thorn in the E.U.'s backside so colour me surprise that he should mention Catholic social doctrine.
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Vouthon
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No, but I did get the impression that you were looking to morally incriminate him for omissions (not legally of course!)I’m not a lawyer or a judge so the word “incriminate” is rather off putting and unnecessary
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Vouthon
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There is a general and rather stubborn ignorance about the competences and limits of EU legislative authority/executive action, certainly.
One tends to think that many North Americans are possessed of the myth that the EU is an all-powerful overlord that can do what it likes anywhere, in violation of national constitutions and reserved competences.
Sometimes, there really is no there there.
(PS Josie is Canadian)
One tends to think that many North Americans are possessed of the myth that the EU is an all-powerful overlord that can do what it likes anywhere, in violation of national constitutions and reserved competences.
Sometimes, there really is no there there.
(PS Josie is Canadian)
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Mary888
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"The main technical objectives of the Estrella project are to develop a Legal Knowledge Interchange Format (LKIF), building upon emerging XML-based standards of the Semantic Web, including RDF and OWL, and Application Programmer Interfaces (APIs) for interacting with legal knowledge-based systems. To achieve and demonstrate vendor neutrality and independence, translators between the LKIF format and the existing proprietary formats of LKBS vendors participating in the project will be developed.
To demonstrate and validate the Estrella platform, European tax related legislation and national tax legislation of two European countries will be modelled and used in the pilot applications. The finance ministries or tax administrations of several other European countries will take part in an Observatory Board to ensure generality of the approach."
It describes a standardized legal tool that will be effective in all European countries. This means the local Constitutions will be surpassed and annulled.
Are you American? What if someone came and annulled your Constitution?
Do not what you would not have others do to you.
God bless!
To demonstrate and validate the Estrella platform, European tax related legislation and national tax legislation of two European countries will be modelled and used in the pilot applications. The finance ministries or tax administrations of several other European countries will take part in an Observatory Board to ensure generality of the approach."
It describes a standardized legal tool that will be effective in all European countries. This means the local Constitutions will be surpassed and annulled.
Are you American? What if someone came and annulled your Constitution?
Do not what you would not have others do to you.
God bless!
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Vouthon
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No, I’m Scottish, British and European. From where would you get the impression from that I, of all people, might be American based upon my posting history and the EU flag as my profile pic?Are you American? What if someone came and annulled your Constitution?
There is absolutely nothing objectionable in anything that you have quoted.
The European Union operates as a common, supranational legal and political system across most of Europe, with a shared set of standardised laws creating a single economic market in areas where the member states have delegated sovereignty by accession to the founding treaties.
So, naturally, you will find legal tools and mechanisms - many - which apply throughout the legislative domain of the EU within it’s sovereign borders, as with any polity.
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Cathoholic
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Vouthon . . .
I pray for the day when these same people call for “Catholic” Adoration.
Worshipping Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament because not only
is Jesus true man but ALSO True God.
Or going to Confession.
Or asserting the Catholic teaching concerning the link between to procreative and unitive aspects of the marital embrace.
In the meantime, this strikes me as phony.
But I am glad to see you trot out Catholic doctrine Vouthon.
Why not begin a thread on Catholicism and the sanctity of life and tag me? You can include statements from European Union politicians all affirming these things too!
We can battle against abortion
and promote life from conception to natural death together!
Shoulder to shoulder we will stand Vouthon. You and me!
I disagree. I think it IS such an issue.The EU is not a “ left/right ” issue it must be remembered
I pray for the day when these same people call for “Catholic” Adoration.
Worshipping Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament because not only
is Jesus true man but ALSO True God.
Or going to Confession.
Or asserting the Catholic teaching concerning the link between to procreative and unitive aspects of the marital embrace.
In the meantime, this strikes me as phony.
But I am glad to see you trot out Catholic doctrine Vouthon.
Why not begin a thread on Catholicism and the sanctity of life and tag me? You can include statements from European Union politicians all affirming these things too!
We can battle against abortion
and promote life from conception to natural death together!
Shoulder to shoulder we will stand Vouthon. You and me!
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josie_L
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I’m not attempting to prove anything, but I am being logically sceptical, i.e., most Catholic politicians are (morally) secularized and have the tendency to speak of social doctrine while ignoring the rest of Catholic teachings.
Add to this the fact that I’ve not heard of him speak out against certain issues and I’m doubly suspicious.
p.s. I’m not American.
Add to this the fact that I’ve not heard of him speak out against certain issues and I’m doubly suspicious.
p.s. I’m not American.
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josie_L
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I am being very logical vis a vis my scepticism.
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Vouthon
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Accusations, to be creditworthy, require evidence.I am being very logical vis a vis my scepticism.
A supposition about what someone does believe about a given matter based upon what they haven’t discussed or claimed to support or deny, is not evidence.
And it’s taking us off-topic, anyway, into a discussion of the logic and cogency of different kinds of arguments. Are we becoming students of syllogism or something? Pretty sure there’s a sub-forum for philosophy and it ain’t world news.
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Cathoholic
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You are exactly right on josie_L.
And everybody knows it.
Keep up the good work!
And everybody knows it.
Keep up the good work!
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josie_L
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It would be nice if most Catholic politicians would toute the sanctity of life, but I wouldn’t bet my life or even a toe that they will.
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Lou2U
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@josie_L and @Cathoholic, do either of you have a link that Juncker is not sincere in his Catholicism? I’d appreciate reading it.
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Vouthon
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It would appear - if we can take the discussion thus far - that they both prefer to deduce another’s beliefs based upon their omissions rather than evidence of what that person actually says and does as being the main criterion.
Because by the latter yardstick, Juncker is a Catholic who views himself as a Catholic and I have no reason to question his sincerity.
Because by the latter yardstick, Juncker is a Catholic who views himself as a Catholic and I have no reason to question his sincerity.
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josie_L
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Was I accusing him?? Did I ever SAY that Juncker was pro abortion??
I am simply saying that I am sceptical of his touting of Catholic doctrine as affirmation that he is truly Catholic in all ways since I have never heard of his advocating of other Catholic doctrines in a similar fashion.
My scepticism is rational not irrational in light of what I know.
I am simply saying that I am sceptical of his touting of Catholic doctrine as affirmation that he is truly Catholic in all ways since I have never heard of his advocating of other Catholic doctrines in a similar fashion.
My scepticism is rational not irrational in light of what I know.
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Vouthon
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I will re-phrase myself: you were insinuating that his faith is insincere and that he may not believe in Catholic moral doctrines concerning life, even though he claims to be a faithful adherent of the church’s social doctrine, based upon what you perceive to be gross omission on his part where these things are concerned.Was I accusing him?? Did I ever SAY that Juncker was pro abortion??
As such, your statement is unfalsifiable given that we cannot quantifiably assess or scrutinize his purported beliefs from any omissions, but only based on the evidence of what he actually says and does, nor can we subjectively crawl into his head and see whether his publicly expressed Catholicism is sincere or not.
I therefore don’t see the point in this approach. It gets us nowhere and seems needlessly judgemental to me.
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josie_L
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Then don’t as I’m not asking you to believe otherwise, but let others who are more sceptical have the ability to question him on his faith.
Recollect that many a person in history has used Christianity to further their gains.
Recollect that many a person in history has used Christianity to further their gains.
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Lou2U
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What draws you to question him, other than his occupation? What specifically has he done that makes you sceptical?Then don’t as I’m not asking you to believe otherwise but let others who are more sceptical have the ability to question him on his faith.
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