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freeRadical
Guest
It’s not what they have done to me, it is what they have done to my ancestors.
T
Tomdstone
Guest
The Americans were applauding loudly when the Soviet Union broke up, but now Hillary is cringing at the thought of Scottish independence.
T
TEPO
Guest
What’s the opposite of a nationalist? Is it a globalist? Just wondering. Thanks.
T
TEPO
Guest
Yes, the Slovaks and Czechs are still the best of friends after the Russian globalists left.
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FollowChrist34
Guest
D
didymus
Guest
Maybe but if that fails it would be a trivial exercise of Royal Navy to seize the Northern Isles along with the oil.
I’m wondering what happens in Westminster (if the independence side wins) and 59 Labour MPs are gone. Will the Tories have a permanent advantage?
And in Scotland what will be the purpose of the SNP once their dram is fulfilled?
My prediction; Scotland will vote to secede by a very small margin, get a very poor deal in the negotiations with the UK and once admitted to the EU will be another Greece/Spain.
Just for fun check out Bob Newhart’s take on Braveheart:
youtube.com/watch?v=Jl6yP5cPqSE
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Kaninchen
Guest
I can imagine the radically free history book’s discussion of how the Union came about “despite painting their faces blue and waving their backsides at the evil redcoats . . .”
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FollowChrist34
Guest
All this talk about Braveheart. Haven’t seen it, don’t know what it is. Oh well. It’s a movie right? I apologize for my ignorance. Mel Gibson? I don’t really like Mel Gibson.
I do love the Prime of Miss Jean Brodie. I am sure she would be a staunch nationalist.
I am praying and hoping for a No victory. I do worry that the Yes vote has momentum; kind of a Yes We Can Obama kind of vibe going on. And we all know how that turned out.
I am thinking enough undecided will vote No - if they’ve had doubts up to now, maybe they’re more likely to vote No? I am really really worried though it will go Yes. And yes 
, it will likely be a case of “beware of what you wish for, you just may get it…” Lot of unnecessary misery, frustration, division, etc. It’s possible we’re exaggerating though out of fear. England could remain pretty much the same; Scotland might fare ok too. Greece is still here.
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Kaninchen
Guest
I doubt it would come to that!
I think the SNP have had to gamble, they needed to maximise emotions in order to win but the result of that did risk a reaction to their campaign on the electorate of the rest of the UK. I expect they knew that but I would guess that they may have underestimated the extent that negotiations between ‘Team Scotland’ and ‘Team UK’ will be carried out against a mood that I think has moved from ‘not particularly bothered’ to ‘don’t give them more than the minimum possible’.
As an old Tory (though I think the current Government is one of the most annoyingly inept in my lifetime) I might be expected to celebrate but I don’t think it’s that easy. It could be that there might be quite a bit of realignment of UK politics to come - the Conservative Party isn’t exactly in good shape for a start.
Shudder.
How good or bad things may get may well be clear quite quickly - millions of personal and business decisions to be made.
Odd to think that Scotland’s future might have been partly decided by a film made by a Jew-hating drunk.
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Portrait
Guest
Dearly beloved friends,
Cordial greetings and a very good day.
Scotland should ignore the hysterical scaremongering and leap at the opportunity towards self rule. The entire issue is so much bigger than Scottish nationalism or whether or not we happen to warm to Mr Salmond, rather it is about whether or not Scotland wishes to have a more just society where the poor and marginalized are not unrelentingly punished for the misdeeds of the rich and powerful. In short it is about social justice and striving towards equality. Social justice and equality for all people will never happen where a fanatical allegiance to Capitalist ideology prevails among all the main political parties, as it does in Britain today. Mr. Salmond and those passionately arguing for Scottish independence understand this only too well.
What many Scots are rightly rejecting is an economy that works on asset stripping, privatisation and keeping wages low. Sadly, successive governments have deemed inequality an acceptable price to pay for ‘fairness’. Let us remember, dear friends, that that ‘fairness’ included bailing out the banks and the subsequent austerity and punitive Social Security cuts, reducing multitudes to abject poverty and even homelessness.
The Scots are responding correctly to the thirty year drift in Britain toward helping the obscenely rich become even richer whilst allowing the poor to become even poorer. This is not about the politics of envy or left-wing rhetoric, but about the increasing poverty experienced by many of British citizens, including those who work jolly hard. Good on the Scots for seeing this, for it sets them apart from the English, who appear increasingly unmoved if not supportive of this trend. Fairness is a demand of the Scottish people and they, quite rightly in my opinion, feel that this will be best achieved as an independent nation away from the cautious, status quo supporting English. The Scots will, I believe, demonstrate what a modern, progressive nation can achieve and we will look enviously northward as our disgraceful economic model of billionaires and breadlines continues to flounder.
Whilst , dear friends, there is much froth spoken by Westminster politicians and the ultra right-wing press about economic recovery and better prospects for the future, the reality is increasingly low wages, food banks, zero hours employment contracts, slave labour schemes and iniquitous and punitive Social Security ‘sanctions’, which cost people their lives. God’s poor and those who are losers in the struggle to survive will always loose out and become more impoverished in a society where Capitalism is the prevailing orthodoxy -Scotland’s ‘yes’ campaigners are only voting to leave the Titanic. A vote for remaining part of Britain is a vote for a continuation of the decline and stagnation that we are already experiencing.
Finally, dear friends, I freely admit that everything will not be sweetness and light for an independent Scotland but to have a sense of hope is something which many other British people could do with at the present time.
God bless.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
In Christos
Cordial greetings and a very good day.
Scotland should ignore the hysterical scaremongering and leap at the opportunity towards self rule. The entire issue is so much bigger than Scottish nationalism or whether or not we happen to warm to Mr Salmond, rather it is about whether or not Scotland wishes to have a more just society where the poor and marginalized are not unrelentingly punished for the misdeeds of the rich and powerful. In short it is about social justice and striving towards equality. Social justice and equality for all people will never happen where a fanatical allegiance to Capitalist ideology prevails among all the main political parties, as it does in Britain today. Mr. Salmond and those passionately arguing for Scottish independence understand this only too well.
What many Scots are rightly rejecting is an economy that works on asset stripping, privatisation and keeping wages low. Sadly, successive governments have deemed inequality an acceptable price to pay for ‘fairness’. Let us remember, dear friends, that that ‘fairness’ included bailing out the banks and the subsequent austerity and punitive Social Security cuts, reducing multitudes to abject poverty and even homelessness.
The Scots are responding correctly to the thirty year drift in Britain toward helping the obscenely rich become even richer whilst allowing the poor to become even poorer. This is not about the politics of envy or left-wing rhetoric, but about the increasing poverty experienced by many of British citizens, including those who work jolly hard. Good on the Scots for seeing this, for it sets them apart from the English, who appear increasingly unmoved if not supportive of this trend. Fairness is a demand of the Scottish people and they, quite rightly in my opinion, feel that this will be best achieved as an independent nation away from the cautious, status quo supporting English. The Scots will, I believe, demonstrate what a modern, progressive nation can achieve and we will look enviously northward as our disgraceful economic model of billionaires and breadlines continues to flounder.
Whilst , dear friends, there is much froth spoken by Westminster politicians and the ultra right-wing press about economic recovery and better prospects for the future, the reality is increasingly low wages, food banks, zero hours employment contracts, slave labour schemes and iniquitous and punitive Social Security ‘sanctions’, which cost people their lives. God’s poor and those who are losers in the struggle to survive will always loose out and become more impoverished in a society where Capitalism is the prevailing orthodoxy -Scotland’s ‘yes’ campaigners are only voting to leave the Titanic. A vote for remaining part of Britain is a vote for a continuation of the decline and stagnation that we are already experiencing.
Finally, dear friends, I freely admit that everything will not be sweetness and light for an independent Scotland but to have a sense of hope is something which many other British people could do with at the present time.
God bless.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
In Christos
K
Kaninchen
Guest
Which all translates to:
Somewhere over the rainbow way up high
There’s a land that I heard of once in a lullaby
Somewhere over the rainbow skies are blue
And the dreams that you dare to dream really do come true
Someday I’ll wish upon a star
And wake up where the clouds are far
Behind me
Where troubles melt like lemon drops
Away above the chimney tops
That’s where you’ll find me
Somewhere over the rainbow bluebirds fly
Birds fly over the rainbow. Why then, oh, why can’t I?
If happy little bluebirds fly
Beyond the rainbow why, oh, why can’t I?
V
Vouthon
Guest
I have just cast my “no” vote. And I am proud to have made the decision that I did.
V
Vouthon
Guest
By the way, I did just vote for “home rule” for Scotland, within the security of the wider UK and in solidarity with the rest of the people of the UK. Scotland will receive a plethora of new powers - for example over taxation and welfare - for our parliament. We do not need independence to have ‘self-rule’.
We have a choice between getting the best of both worlds or driving off into an uncertain future peddled by emotional nationalism.
Were you actually living in Scotland, you would perhaps more greatly appreciate just how lacking in answers about our future the Yes Campaign have proven to be. There is a serious deficit there; a gap between the utopian visions put forward and the inability - at times oblivious to all facts - to explain how we are actually going to achieve anything.
C
Coatimundi
Guest
The polls are open until 2100 GMT, which (if my calculations are correct) would be 4 pm in New York City. In addition, roughly 800,000 voters have requested postal ballots which will need to be submitted by that hour.
No exit polls are being planned by major news outlets or polling firms, so we will need to wait for the count. However, we may know the outcome before the final results are tabulated.
Quoting from Reuters
Results are likely to start coming through from around 0100 GMT on Sept 19. However, Scotland’s biggest cities of Glasgow, Edinburgh and Aberdeen may not report results until after 0400 GMT.
A national result will be known “around breakfast time” on Friday, according to a media release prepared by the counting office.
POSSIBLE POINTERS
With the major cities reporting late or last, the result will be uncertain through the night.
The councils with the largest share of the electorate, which could most easily affect the overall result, are Glasgow with 11.35 percent of the vote, Edinburgh with 8.81 percent, Fife with 7.05, North Lanarkshire with 6.27, South Lanarkshire with 6.09 and Aberdeenshire with 4.82 percent.
Together, they account for nearly 45 percent of the electorate.
However, earlier results may provide some indication of how the vote is going, with nationalist-supporting areas such as Moray expected to report early and Orkney, expected to reject independence, also likely to be among the first to declare.
reuters.com/article/2014/09/17/us-scotland-independence-results-factbox-idUSKBN0HC1OM20140917
A late surge of voter registrations now means that 97% of eligible voters are registered. Turnout for today’s ballot is expected to be high.
No exit polls are being planned by major news outlets or polling firms, so we will need to wait for the count. However, we may know the outcome before the final results are tabulated.
Quoting from Reuters
Results are likely to start coming through from around 0100 GMT on Sept 19. However, Scotland’s biggest cities of Glasgow, Edinburgh and Aberdeen may not report results until after 0400 GMT.
A national result will be known “around breakfast time” on Friday, according to a media release prepared by the counting office.
POSSIBLE POINTERS
With the major cities reporting late or last, the result will be uncertain through the night.
The councils with the largest share of the electorate, which could most easily affect the overall result, are Glasgow with 11.35 percent of the vote, Edinburgh with 8.81 percent, Fife with 7.05, North Lanarkshire with 6.27, South Lanarkshire with 6.09 and Aberdeenshire with 4.82 percent.
Together, they account for nearly 45 percent of the electorate.
However, earlier results may provide some indication of how the vote is going, with nationalist-supporting areas such as Moray expected to report early and Orkney, expected to reject independence, also likely to be among the first to declare.
reuters.com/article/2014/09/17/us-scotland-independence-results-factbox-idUSKBN0HC1OM20140917
A late surge of voter registrations now means that 97% of eligible voters are registered. Turnout for today’s ballot is expected to be high.
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Portrait
Guest
Dear Vouthon,
Cordial greetings and a very good day. Hope all is well and jolly good to meet up with you again on the boards.
Unfortunately, a ‘modern home rule within the UK’’ will not give to Scotland effective economic control and is a desperate next to nothing offer given at the last moment. The whole plan is baffling and seems a last ditch attempt to persuade the Scots to reject full independence. Moreover, there is nothing new on offer that was not on offer in the spring, when the three main unionist parties set out their divers proposals to transfer more powers to Holyrood.
Full Scottish independence will guarantee that tax and social security rates are set in line with the wishes of the people of Scotland. That, dear friend, will mean an end to the imposition on Scotland of iniquitous and inequitable policies such as the hated ‘bedroom tax’, which has been the occasion of so much hardship and misery in Britain. Abolition of this bedroom tax will save 82,500 households in Scotland, including 63,500 with a disabled adult and 15,500 households with children, an average of £50 a month, thus enabling them to live their lives with some degree of dignity.
It is the decline and stagnation of the present state of affairs that will result in an uncertain future. Your talented and skilled young people will feel compelled to leave the country for economic reasons and this will be a monumental and jolly costly tragedy in the long-term, dear friend. If Scotland does not break free from the ideological Capitalism of Westminster politics then it can only look forward to a very bleak future, especially as regards the long-term sick or poor. Many decent and compassionate working class Scots people see this only too well and that is one of the reasons why they will be voting ‘yes’ for full independence today.
The ‘yes’ campaign does not lack the answers as to how it will achieve its goals for a successful independent Scotland. Sadly, the problem is that people, especially south of the border, are choosing to close their ears owing to a morbid fear of socialism, nationalism or Mr. Salmond - possibly all three. In actual fact the Scottish Nationalist Party has issued a 670 page White Paper that sets out the gains that could be achieved through independence.
An independent Scotland, dear friend, will have an economic policy aimed at economic stability and job security in Scotland. This will replace an economic policy which disproportionately benefits only London and the South East of England.
A fully independent Scotland can also invest its vast oil wealth for future generations. By value there is estimated to be as much North Sea oil still to come as has already been extracted. Norway has a savings fund worth more than £470 billion. Moreover, the people’s taxes will no longer be used to pay for wicked nuclear weapons and Trident can be removed from Scotland for good. There is vast savings in this alone.
This, dear friend, is an opportunity of a lifetime and therefore should be eagerly seized with both hands. Full independence is the right road forward for Scotland and will, if given the chance, deliver a more just and compassionate society for ALL Scottish people, not merely the wealthy or entrepreneurial types. As a Catholic I want a society where the government cares for the poor, sick and those who are losers in the struggle to survive by adequately providing for all their material and medical needs. Without such basic needs being continually met a civilised society can no longer claim to be civil.
God bless and all the very best to Mr Salmond and the SNP. Goodbye.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait:tiphat:
In Christos
F
FollowChrist34
Guest
I have just cast my “no” vote. And I am proud to have made the decision that I did.
V
Vouthon
Guest
Dear Portrait,
I have read the White Paper and in my humble opinion it is littered with vague, unsubstantiated claims.
I am not going to defend my reasons for exercising a democratic choice, however what I will say is that I find your post remarkably condescending. Also, in my opinion you have essentially regurgitated almost verbatim the party line of the ‘Yes campaign’. Every single statement you have made I have heard more than once over the past 2 years of this campaign.
To speak as if you are more informed than we Scots, who have been mulling and debating this topic well before it even hit the press in any major way in England, is flabbergasting to me.
I feel that you should not be dictating to me or any other Scot, whether they be ‘Yes’ or ‘No’, what is in your own words, “the right road forward for Scotland”.
That is our choice and judgement to make, not yours.
I have read the White Paper and in my humble opinion it is littered with vague, unsubstantiated claims.
I am not going to defend my reasons for exercising a democratic choice, however what I will say is that I find your post remarkably condescending. Also, in my opinion you have essentially regurgitated almost verbatim the party line of the ‘Yes campaign’. Every single statement you have made I have heard more than once over the past 2 years of this campaign.
To speak as if you are more informed than we Scots, who have been mulling and debating this topic well before it even hit the press in any major way in England, is flabbergasting to me.
I feel that you should not be dictating to me or any other Scot, whether they be ‘Yes’ or ‘No’, what is in your own words, “the right road forward for Scotland”.
That is our choice and judgement to make, not yours.
V
Vouthon
Guest
What about blessings and prayers on behalf of the people of Scotland as a whole, whether ‘Yes’ or ‘No’, who are each in their own persons making decisions in accordance with the dictates of their own consciences for the good of their country’s future as they see it?
Why the partisan beseeching for God to aid the Nationalists cause? You have swallowed their propaganda entirely. It is unhealthy to have such high and glorious expectations for any political association as the ones you are espousing for the Yes campaign. This is not hope over fear, as you think, but bribery without the ammunition to deliver it. Oil, Trident, Tories, the Bedroom Tax.…
Do you really, honestly, believe that this has not been put before my eyes and ears countless times over this 2 YEAR campaign? The reason I am not making a long post laying out the intricacies as you are, is because I have done so up here in Scotland so many times, as has every one else. Teenage girls out on a hen night in Glasgow have been discussed the merits or demerits of a currency union for crying out loud!
Surely you can see why your words appear condescending?
God is above every political campaign, including my own Better Together. I detect secular messianism in your words, the utopian idea that one group of people - sinners like the rest - are going to “save” a country. Such a concept has never led to prosperity but always to disappointment and tragedy. Reading St. Augustine’s, ‘City of God’ many years ago delivered me from such delusions.
Don’t get me wrong. I know that your intentions are good and pure; that you sincerely believe that independence would be the better path for my nation to take.
However I and many other Scots have awakened to the very real dangers of an excessive form of idealism. You are justice-driven and I sympathise with your idealistic quest to right social wrongs, yet you are unaware of the fantasy and fundamentalism, whether virtuously intentioned or not, which is gripping many quarters of the Yes campaign.
If a ‘Yes’ vote comes, remember my warning in years to come. The Scottish people will have to carry the can when the unending promises turn sour and Scotland fails to become the Garden of Eden painted by the Nationalists, not you. It is easy to be an armchair moralist, I know because I have been such myself on previous occasions. Now the reality has hit my neck of the woods.
G
GEddie
Guest
Because the CCCP was an evil empire. The UK was our colonial daddy.
Anyway, I don’t care much for Hillary, will not vote for her should she be nominated for the presidency, but the fact she says something does not a priori make it wrong.
ICXC NIKA
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