Europe fears Scottish independence contagion

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I say let them. If it puts a dent into this one world movement going around, that’s good with me.
 
Hey, I know you don’t like us, fine.

Still: Gulags, persecution of religion, enforced atheism, anybody?

ICXC NIKA
 
nojesusnopeace said:
I say let them. If it puts a dent into this one world movement going around, that’s good with me.
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Lots of smaller countries will suit the interests of transnational banks and corporations just fine. We already have a one-world financial oligarchy, the only thing saving us is that the “1%” aren’t monolithic and sometimes work at cross-purposes.

Presumably if Catalonia secedes or Belgium breaks up presumably they will stay in the EU meaning that a lot of their laws and policies will be set by Brussels. Some “independence”.

In cases like Catalonia I wonder how things will work with a permanent minority who consider themselves Spanish. Will they leave? Stay but be resentful? Be treated as second class?

I have a couple anglophone Quebecois email friends who claim the separatist movement has gotten stronger since an influx of immigrants from France. If they secede the new country would probably go from bilingual to French-only.
 
The polls are closed and the counting has begun. Whatever the result, the citizens have spoken.

If Scotland voted to remain in the UK, how would this decision affect Scotland as a people: culturally, politically, socially?
 
Portrait said:
Dearly beloved friends,

Cordial greetings and a very good day.

Scotland should ignore the hysterical scaremongering and leap at the opportunity towards self rule. The entire issue is so much bigger than Scottish nationalism or whether or not we happen to warm to Mr Salmond, rather it is about whether or not Scotland wishes to have a more just society where the poor and marginalized are not unrelentingly punished for the misdeeds of the rich and powerful. In short it is about social justice and striving towards equality. Social justice and equality for all people will never happen where a fanatical allegiance to Capitalist ideology prevails among all the main political parties, as it does in Britain today. Mr. Salmond and those passionately arguing for Scottish independence understand this only too well.

What many Scots are rightly rejecting is an economy that works on asset stripping, privatisation and keeping wages low. Sadly, successive governments have deemed inequality an acceptable price to pay for ‘fairness’. Let us remember, dear friends, that that ‘fairness’ included bailing out the banks and the subsequent austerity and punitive Social Security cuts, reducing multitudes to abject poverty and even homelessness.

The Scots are responding correctly to the thirty year drift in Britain toward helping the obscenely rich become even richer whilst allowing the poor to become even poorer. This is not about the politics of envy or left-wing rhetoric, but about the increasing poverty experienced by many of British citizens, including those who work jolly hard. Good on the Scots for seeing this, for it sets them apart from the English, who appear increasingly unmoved if not supportive of this trend. Fairness is a demand of the Scottish people and they, quite rightly in my opinion, feel that this will be best achieved as an independent nation away from the cautious, status quo supporting English. The Scots will, I believe, demonstrate what a modern, progressive nation can achieve and we will look enviously northward as our disgraceful economic model of billionaires and breadlines continues to flounder.

Whilst , dear friends, there is much froth spoken by Westminster politicians and the ultra right-wing press about economic recovery and better prospects for the future, the reality is increasingly low wages, food banks, zero hours employment contracts, slave labour schemes and iniquitous and punitive Social Security ‘sanctions’, which cost people their lives. God’s poor and those who are losers in the struggle to survive will always loose out and become more impoverished in a society where Capitalism is the prevailing orthodoxy -Scotland’s ‘yes’ campaigners are only voting to leave the Titanic. A vote for remaining part of Britain is a vote for a continuation of the decline and stagnation that we are already experiencing.

Finally, dear friends, I freely admit that everything will not be sweetness and light for an independent Scotland but to have a sense of hope is something which many other British people could do with at the present time.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

In Christos
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Thanks for giving us this insight into some of the reasons for the push toward Scottish independence.
 
Coatimundi said:
The polls are closed and the counting has begun. Whatever the result, the citizens have spoken.

If Scotland voted to remain in the UK, how would this decision affect Scotland as a people: culturally, politically, socially?
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Just for information - the final opinion poll (contacting those who have voted) suggests 54% No v’s 46% Yes.
 
Turnout is pretty remarkable:

Dundee is 90%
East Dunbartonshire. Expecting turnout of 80%+
rumours some areas have turnouts over 90%
 
Kaninchen said:
Just for information - the final opinion poll (contacting those who have voted) suggests 54% No v’s 46% Yes.
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Wow, that is a wider split than was expected - will be interesting (and somewhat surprising to me) if that holds up. Either way, I think a decisive victory is better than a close one.
 
I’m calling it: it’s over. No has won the referendum.
Dan Hodges is a former Labour Party and GMB trade union official, and has managed numerous independent political campaigns. He writes about Labour with tribal loyalty and without reservation. He is on Twitter at @dpjhodges.
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“No” has won. Stay up if you like. If you choose to, there’ll be some fantastic coverage here on Telegraph Blogs. But it’s over. “No” has won; they’d won before the latest and final YouGov poll called it for No, 54-46.
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They didn’t win because of Gordon Brown’s dramatic and passionate intervention. Or because of David Cameron’s emotional appeals. Or because of Ed Miliband’s brave attempt to take his message directly to voters on the streets.
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They won two and a half years ago when the referendum was first announced. Scotland, for reasons best known to itself, doesn’t want to be an independent nation.
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Throughout this campaign there has never been a single moment when the “Yes” campaign has been ahead. For all the madness of the past two weeks, the history books will show this – there was only one poll, one solitary, rogue poll, that showed the people of Scotland voting for independence.
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But because of that poll, the constitutional settlement of the UK has been torn apart. Or it hasn’t been torn apart. Scotland has been guaranteed “Home Rule”. The rest of us have been told we are about the become members of a federal Britain. And why? Because half a dozen people told a pollster they might tick that tiny box marked “Yes”. I wonder how many of them actually did?
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The 2014 Scottish referendum campaign is over. Now the trouble begins.
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FollowChrist34 said:
Wow, that is a wider split than was expected - will be interesting (and somewhat surprising to me) if that holds up. Either way, I think a decisive victory is better than a close one.
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Earlier in the day, the journalist Bill Coles posted a prediction in the Reuters live blog. He predicted a No victory by a sizable margin, perhaps even as much as ten points. His reasoning is that the past opinion polls were not as close as might appear. His belief is that most people who said they were undecided were simply unwilling to divulge that they were voting No.

What the pundits have not factored into all their polls is the very febrile nature of Scotland at the moment. It’s edgy. There is a real air of menace and aggression.
So asking people what they’re going to vote is in itself a loaded question.
And it is my confident prediction that there are a lot of people out there who are saying they’re undecided, when in fact they decided a long time ago. But - who’d have guessed it? - they have no intention whatsoever of declaring that to the pollsters.

Most “Yes” voters are will be very happy indeed to tell you that they’ll be voting Yes.
Not so with the “No” voters. A number of them are rather shy about coming forward. The only way you’ll ever actually know they’ve voted “No” is if you’ve looked over their shoulder in the polling booth. And that’s why I think that even tonight’s exit polls might be out by a point or two - because some voters may vote for the Union, but they will never, ever ‘fess up to it.

Of the “Undecideds”, I reckon that at least 80 per cent will be voting for the Union - which, if the two sides were absolutely neck and neck, would work out to be a six point difference in the polls, 53 to 47.
live.reuters.com/Event/Scottish_referendum
 
As an American I really have no right to weigh in on the whole Scottish independence movement, but I do hope the Scots are prepared to address voter tampering should the issue arise. And I have not the slightest doubt that it will.
 
Coatimundi said:
Earlier in the day, the journalist Bill Coles posted a prediction in the Reuters live blog. He predicted a No victory by a sizable margin, perhaps even as much as ten points. His reasoning is that the past opinion polls were not as close as might appear. His belief is that most people who said they were undecided were simply unwilling to divulge that they were voting No.
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People can say what they like, but the actual count so far places it at 50.91% for NO and 49.09% YES. It is a much closer shave than the naysayers predicted and I’m not convinced that wasn’t a tactic to get those in favor of independence to throw in the towel early and stop voting.
 
EmperorNapoleon said:
People can say what they like, but the actual count so far places it at 50.91% for NO and 49.09% YES. It is a much closer shave than the naysayers predicted and I’m not convinced that wasn’t a tactic to get those in favor of independence to throw in the towel early and stop voting.
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It is close.
 
EmperorNapoleon said:
People can say what they like, but the actual count so far places it at 50.91% for NO and 49.09% YES. It is a much closer shave than the naysayers predicted and I’m not convinced that wasn’t a tactic to get those in favor of independence to throw in the towel early and stop voting.
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You may be right, however in the councils which have reported their results, the voter turnout was 86%. If this holds true for the rest of Scotland, then only about 20% of the total votes have been reported so far. The final outcome could shift dramatically in either direction.

Whichever side wins, perhaps it would be best for the decision to be by more than one or two points.
 
Glasgow will probably go Yes - the margin is what would be important. My guess is Edinburgh and Aberdeen go No. It could still go either way. But I think it’s more likely “No” will prevail. Nervous about Glasgow. It is too early to call.
 
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