European elections 2019: LIVE results

[PickyPicky]

Is there a take away message by the electoral results?

I’ll try to give my view in a very short take:

1 The anti-migration, rightist, nationalists did well, although not as well as the rest of us had feared. In the UK they did particularly well, the Brexit Party taking more votes and winning more seats than any other party.

2 The traditional two big blocs – by which I mean basically the centre left Social Democrats and the centre-right Christian Democrats – are still the biggest two blocs, but they both lost ground.

3 The centrist Liberals and the centre-left Greens both did well, so there are some signs of middle-of-the-road voters shifting from the two leading blocs, but only into other middle-of-the-road blocs.

4 The UK result was basically about Brexit. Given the disunity of the two largest parties (Labour and Conservative) voters polarised somewhat, moving to the Brexit Party if they are Brexiteers and to the Liberal Democrats, Greens, and Welsh and Scottish Nationalists if they are Remainers. Brexiteers claim victory because the Brexit Party topped the poll; Remainers claim victory because the LDs, Greens and Nationalists combined polled more than the Brexit Party.

That make any sense?

 

[PickyPicky]

Here’s the breakdown of seats by bloc, courtesy of Wikipedia:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

You’ll see that the mainstream parties dominate, despite the dangerous rise of the far right.

 

[grotto]

Sinn Fein has been mentioned as a party that didn’t receive much support. Time has moved on - but I happened to have a VCR recording of Jerry Adams first visit to the US. to be a guest of Larry King on CNN. In so many related ways, from commercials especially, and the youthful appearance of people, it was very interesting. Mr. Adams presented himself very well. A Mr. McGinnis of northern Ireland showed up as the 2nd guest beside Adams. Mr. McGinnis was openly hostile to Mr. Adams and would not directly speak to him. He was insulting, contemptuous, and flat out hateful.
What would today’s media do with THIS interview?! The discussion purpose for Mr. Adams was bringing peace to the country - meeting and resolving - a beginning for a peace agreement. McGinnis would have none of it with Jerry Adams - his resolve stemmed from the turmoil of previous years was caused by the IRA and Adams was a terrorist. That about sums it up. However, there was one incident in the program that was really a laugh - Larry King says to the audience, “We have a caller from ------”, with that a woman proceeds to start yelling about Jerry Adams being a ----- etc. according to an article in a newspaper. As soon as she said this McGinnis whips up a newspaper opened to the article to expound on the caller’s spiel . Talk about staged theatrics, Adams called it out but no more was said.
I wonder how Gerry Adams fared after all these years - he seemed he truly loved Ireland and desired peace.

 

[abucs]

I would just add that the table above is obviously coming from a critically subjective viewpoint. The parties mentioned actually have names as follows

ECR - European Conservatives and Reformists (described above as National conservatives and sovereignists)

EFDD - Europe of Freedom and Direct Democracy (described above as Right wing populists and Eurosceptics)

ENF - Europe of Nations and Freedom (described above as Far right politics and hard Eurosceptics).

When you put these tallies together you get 175 which is only 3 short of the top grouping of the centre right EPP. (European People’s Party).

Discussions and negotiations are ongoing for some of the parties of the centre right EPP and others to join with the Nationalists. Whatever those discussions arrive at, the political landscape of the EU has shifted.

Goodnight.

 

[Kaninchen]

despite the dangerous rise of the far right.

The rise of the far right/neo-fascist/neo-nazi fringe is dangerous, obviously but, given the huge sums of money poured into it by American Conservative/Russian-financed anti-EU operations it must be something of a disappointment to them.

 

[Feanor2]

Thanks Picky

Well sounds like the results aren’t great but could have been worse

Fear of a loss of “culture” and “way of life” certainly contribute to voting and election of nationalist politicians.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

The rise of the far right/neo-fascist/neo-nazi fringe is dangerous, obviously but, given the huge sums of money poured into it by American Conservative/Russian-financed anti-EU operations it must be something of a disappointment to them.

Nationalist parties are not all far right. We had a discussion about this awhile ago in which it was acknowledged that some of these parties are actually quite leftist in their views other than being nationalists. Think Catalonians, Scottish National Party, Italy’s Five Star Movement, France’s National Front, France’s Yellow Vests, and there are more. It’s just that any expression of nationalism is considered an unpardonable sin and any grievance the nationalists have are not worth addressing. At all. Nor is there any acknowledgement that these movements are quite organic in origin. Instead it’s all money from outside, think that might be an insult to the locals?

 

[Sarcelle]

American Conservative/Russian-financed anti-EU operations it must be something of a disappointment to them.

Why would Americans want to destabilize the EU?

 

[Sarcelle]

One would think a stabilized and prosperous EU would be a lot better.

The EU would make a better trading partner than China and serve as a balance against Russia.

 

[Kaninchen]

Why would Americans want to destabilize the EU?

For a number of reasons and they’re all a case of “follow the money,” American megadonors like the Kochs (Cato Institute, Reason Foundation) and Robert Mercer haven’t spent so much money just for the fun of it.

 

[PickyPicky]

One would think a stabilized and prosperous EU would be a lot better

One would, but there is a strand in American political life that sees international affairs as a zero-sum game. Mr Trump epitomises this view. The wish to destabilise the EU goes with the wish to destabilise NATO and the wish to cripple the UN and the wish to destabilise world trade. The sun’s light must fall only on America.

 

[Ridgerunner]

One would, but there is a strand in American political life that sees international affairs as a zero-sum game. Mr Trump epitomises this view. The wish to destabilise the EU goes with the wish to destabilise NATO and the wish to cripple the UN and the wish to destabilise world trade. The sun’s light must fall only on America.

These are not consistent goals, and therefore lack credibility. The EU does discriminate against the U.S. when it comes to trade, but that’s not unusual in the world. Nations, including the U.S. itself, do that. That’s different from wanting to bear more defense burden in lieu of NATO nations bearing a fair share of it. Americans do not want to “destabilize NATO”.

Crippling the UN would be like bringing coals to Newcastle, since it’s ineffective in very important ways and will probably never really be otherwise. While it’s not universal by any means, a significant segment of Americans do not respect the UN. Its anti-Semitism is one of the reasons, but not the only one.

As to the “sunlight falling” only on America, it probably would be better for Europeans to refrain from uttering such silliness, lest you wrongly persuade each other that it’s true. Regardless, judging by what one reads in some of these threads, it seems the vanity and excessive jingoism is all on the eastern side of the Atlantic. Americans, by and large, don’t exhibit hostility toward Europe the way some Europeans exhibit it toward America and Americans, including in this thread.

You should not view us through your own emotional lenses.

 

[Sarcelle]

Says who? Who is this strand of American political life?

Don’t say Trump voters. I know many and no, they are not all racist and ignorant.

I don’t think that way and I know I’m not unique in this.

 

[PickyPicky]

Americans do not want to “destabilize NATO

I said

there is a strand in American political life

who think like this. As you say:

a significant segment of Americans do not respect the UN

And as for this:

Americans, by and large, don’t exhibit hostility toward Europe the way some Europeans exhibit it toward America and Americans

well, I’m no expert on American emotions, but I believe this to be true. Just as I believe Europeans, by and large, don’t exhibit hostility towards the United States the way some Americans exhibit it towards Europe and Europeans.

I have great respect for America — it would not be going too far to say I have great affection for her. Nonetheless, just as I believe there is a strand in British political life that believes Britain needs to elbow its way to some phantom imperial greatness, and sees the world through that haze, so I belief that there is a strand in American life that thinks the way I described.

That American strand has more cash.

 

[PickyPicky]

Says who? Who is this strand of American political life?

Don’t say Trump voters. I know many and no, they are not all racist and ignorant.

I don’t think that way and I know I’m not unique in this.

If it seemed that I was referring to Americans generally, I apologise. I wasn’t.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I believe Europeans, by and large, don’t exhibit hostility towards the United States the way some Americans exhibit it towards Europe and Europeans.

Possibly this thread is not a good indicator, then, of either Europeans or Americans.

 

[PickyPicky]

If you are pointing at me, I am by no means hostile towards the United States.

 

[Ridgerunner]

If you are pointing at me, I am by no means hostile towards the United States.

I pointed at no one. All I’m saying is that if a person read up and down this thread one would not see American hostility toward Europe, but one would see European hostility toward America. Perhaps that’s not a good test.

 

[Vouthon]

Back on topic, there were modest gains for some of the Eurosceptic populists overall, although particularly in Orban’s Hungary and Italy, where Matteo Salvini’s Lega did very well - winning more than 30% of the vote, making the Lega into the largest party in Italy - and in Britain, of course (although the combined Remain vote here was bigger than the combined pro-Leavse vote, and the Liberals and Greens also did very well over here).

However, there were also lots of losses for the eurosceptic populists, while the Greens surged everywhere and the liberal parties also did well overall.

The outcome of the election points to a European Parliament with a broad diversity of opinion but in which avowedly pro-EU parties will hold approximately 477 seats, out of a total of 751, which is enormous compared with the Eurosceptic aggregate.

As such, the governing coalition will again be a pro-European integration one and the Commission President, along with the other heads of institutions, will be selected from this side of the political spectrum.

While coalition talks are ongoing between the pro-EU parties, the different blocs of Eurosceptic populists are also trying to coordinate under the one umbrella group, but they have so far failed to do so because they often disagree profoundly among themselves about other matters.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

While coalition talks are ongoing between the pro-EU parties, the different blocs of Eurosceptic populists are also trying to coordinate under the one umbrella group, but they have so far failed to do so because they often disagree profoundly among themselves about other matters.

Which gives the lie to those who insist on lumping all Eurosceptics under a certain undesirable flag.