European elections 2019: LIVE results

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Sarcelle said:
Most Europeans have always looked at Americans as loud, ignorant, fat boors.
All 300 million of us
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Just been thinking back over American presidents. My personal memory of them goes back no further than Ike. Of course their popularity varied among Europeans, but I don’t think we looked at any of them as loud, ignorant, fat boors until Mr Trump arrived. LBJ perhaps comes closest, but only a fool would have thought him ignorant.

Indeed the international power of American culture means many Europeans hold American figures as heroes. Actors, musicians, singers, novelists — no, I’m sure your characterisation is wrong.
 
Lou2U said:
For my part, I would have preferred Khan to not respond. Trump did not need to insult him, why not just day he disagrees with Khan’s position? Whatever point Trump is trying to make is lost because he can’t rise above it.
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Khan called Trump a “fascist” in an op ed, to which Trump responded. Kind of hard not to respond to “fascist” with some force. Did you expect him to just say “I’m not a fascist”. Everybody knows that and it would have sounded weak to say it.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Khan called Trump a “fascist” in an op ed, to which Trump responded. Kind of hard not to respond to “fascist” with some force. Did you expect him to just say “I’m not a fascist”. Everybody knows that and it would have sounded weak to say it.
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It would have sounded a lot better than what was actually said (tweeted) IMO.

For what it’s worth, I don’t think either came out of it well.
 
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PickyPicky said:
I don’t think we looked at any of them as loud, ignorant, fat boors until Mr Trump arrived. LBJ perhaps comes closest, but only a fool would have thought him ignorant.
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LBJ was louder, not as well educated, but not ignorant. Trump is fatter. And Europeans vilified George W. Bush plenty enough, not because of boorishness but because was American and not a liberal. They forgave Obama’s being American because he was leftist and apologetic for his country for it being insufficiently self-abasing to please the left.
 
For what it’s worth, I’m glad Trump said what he did. I, for one, am sick of people who throw “fascist” around like this.
 
Ridgerunner said:
For what it’s worth, I’m glad Trump said what he did. I, for one, am sick of people who throw “fascist” around like this.
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And I for one am tired of a political discourse where insults are readily expected and acceptable. Our politicians can, and should, do better.
 
grotto said:
President Trump is just fine, thank you. He is not phony, his message is clear to those who need to hear it. The more his enemies bluster over not receiving the opportunity
to gain their ground, the more we laugh at them.

The Mayor of London is a disgrace to all of England. He is the poster boy of what has gone so tremendously wrong and what America is fighting to remove at home.
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One can be sincere without being a complete jackass. And the Mayor of London has done nothing to deserve this kind of treatment. Trump has had an irrational hate for this man since the last London attacks. It’s undiplomatic, and it is at least some demonstration of the good grace of the British government (including the Queen) that they overlook this unwarranted and frankly idiotic attack on a civic leader whose position and authority has virtually nothing to do with US-UK relations.
 
niceatheist said:
And the Mayor of London has done nothing to deserve this kind of treatment
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Actually he did. He called Trump a “fascist”, insulting several other European leaders in the process, including some of Britain’s.
 
European leftists would hate him and vilify him, just as they hated and vilified Bush, just because he’s an American conservative. None of this really matters except to that portion of the American electorate that’s tired of things like leftists calling people “fascists” as Khan did to Trump. Probably that’s a (possibly small) majority.
 
Ridgerunner said:
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Lou2U:
For my part, I would have preferred Khan to not respond. Trump did not need to insult him, why not just day he disagrees with Khan’s position? Whatever point Trump is trying to make is lost because he can’t rise above it.
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Khan called Trump a “fascist” in an op ed, to which Trump responded. Kind of hard not to respond to “fascist” with some force. Did you expect him to just say “I’m not a fascist”. Everybody knows that and it would have sounded weak to say it.
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Curiously, Boris Johnson has said equally as unflattering things about Trump, but Trump hasn’t responded with the same kind of response Khan had.

I think the full quote was:

''I think Donald Trump is clearly out of his mind if you think that’s a sensible way to proceed. You clearly can’t ban people going to the United States in that way, or indeed any country.

And what he is doing is playing the game of the terrorists, and those who seek to divide us.

That is exactly the kind of reaction they hope to produce, and I have to say when Donald Trump says there are parts of London that are no go areas, I think he’s betraying a quite stupifying ignorance, that makes him quite frankly unfit to hold the office of President of the United States.

I would invite him to come and see the whole of London, and take him round the city, except that I wouldn’t want to expose Londoners to any unnecessary risk of meeting Donald Trump.’’

Its entirely possible that perhaps Trump didn’t see it and his lack of response was due to that. But the video of Boris’ comments is being projected onto Big Ben this evening, so perhaps we’ll have a response in the morning.
 
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Europeans have tentatively persuaded me that there are leftists in Europe who are not greatly different from leftists in America. I assumed both knew what that means, and I think both do.

Obviously, at least some Europeans care that Trump called Khan a “loser”. Should one take it that Europeans think it’s okay for Khan to have called Trump a “fascist”? Or is it just that Europeans expect the president of the U.S. to ignore it when the mayor of London calls him a “fascist” on the eve of his visit to Britain? I don’t think most Americans other than those who hate Trump anyway, do expect that.

And if Brits don’t care that the mayor of their most important city calls American presidents “fascists” on the eve of a state visit, then they aren’t very demanding of the quality of their leaders.
 
And the reason for an American to care that Trump doesn’t respond to all insults equally is what?
 
Ah, so in order to respond to someone who calls him a “fascist”, he has to say nothing unless he says something negative about everyone who has ever called him an ugly name?
 
Ridgerunner said:
And the reason for an American to care that Trump doesn’t respond to all insults equally is what?
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Just pointing out a curiosity. One London Mayor gets the full Trump temper tantrum for airing his thoughts, the other gets an endorsement for Prime Minister. I thought it quite an amusing and extreme disparity, how much you care about it is totally up to you.
 
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Possibly he thinks Johnson may become a more important person than Khan. Apparently he’s a PM candidate.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Possibly he thinks Johnson may become a more important person than Khan. Apparently he’s a PM candidate.
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Indeed, he may become PM depending on how the leadership battle goes. It does seem all rather inconsistent though

Johnson comments that Trump is ‘out of his mind’, displays ‘stupefying ignorance’ that makes him ‘unfit to hold the office of President’ and states he wouldn’t want to inflict his company on Londoners’ and Trumps assessment of Johnson is:

''I like him. I have always liked him. I don’t know that he is going to be chosen, but I think he is a very good guy, a very talented person. He has been positive about me and our country.”
 
Ridgerunner said:
Should one take it that Europeans think it’s okay for Khan to have called Trump a “fascist”?
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Should one take it that it is okay for Trump to have called Khan a “stone-cold loser”, “nasty” and implied he was also “dumb and incompetent”, as well as making fun of his height? Because of what Khan said?
Ridgerunner said:
Ah, so in order to respond to someone who calls him a “fascist”, he has to say nothing unless he says something negative about everyone who has ever called him an ugly name?
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Not nothing, but he could have chosen to be the bigger person and not resorted to insults. Surely both our politicians can do better than this.
 
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_Ruby said:
Just pointing out a curiosity. One London Mayor gets the full Trump temper tantrum for airing his thoughts, the other gets an endorsement for Prime Minister.
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I suspect either Trump doesn’t know, or Johnson met him and told him he didn’t mean what he said in public. And did a lot of sucking up.
 
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Sure. But again, Trump was speaking to Americans with this, I believe. For many Americans, it really is getting irksome to hear European leftists pillory a conservative president for nothing and to canonize a liberal, also for nothing.

Maybe nobody in Europe cares if he or his leader is called a “fascist”, but that has become a pretty severe insult in the U.S.
 
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