Evangelical Question On Prayer

[Pixie_Dust]

Who says formulaic prayers can’t be personal, one-on-one, or intimate? In my experience they can be just as intimate as spontaneous prayer.

That has been my experience as well. Keeps me from praying those “just” prayers, too. Y’know: “Lord, we just come to you today and we just thank you and just ask that you just be with us today and just bless us and just make us just aware of your presence in our lives…”

 

[Richard_Abanes]

AMON: Who says formulaic prayers can’t be personal, one-on-one, or intimate?

RA: I meant nothing by that, I was just trying to explain precisely what I was looking for.

RA

 

[Richard_Abanes]

**Pixie: **“Lord, we just come to you today and we just thank you and just ask that you just be with us”

RA: Yeah, I can see you were a traveling in some very familiar non-Catholic circles. Urrrghh.

RA

 

[Nessie86]

I often pray to God as the Trinity, and the address Jesus or the Holy Spirit or whatever depending on what I’m praying about. I sometimes pray to Mary, asking her to pray for me, like I would a friend here on earth.

I do want to say a bit for the formulaic prayers, though. As a former Protestant, I never understood these. Now that I’m converting, I’ve found immense value in them. For me, the *are *incredibly personal prayers, in which I consider and mean every word. In addition, with my hands and mouth busy, my mind is free to meditate and pray even more deeply. They are much more complicated and intense prayers than I ever thought they could be, as a Protestant.

 

[Reuben_J]

TO ALL ROMAN CATHOLICS,

I’m curious…I am not going to respond at all, but I am simply asking a question just for Roman Catholics in good standing and practicing.

When you pray, who do you DIRECTLY pray to the most often (as in directly speak to them)?

God the Father?
God the Son, Jesus Christ?
God the HS?
Mary, the Blessed Virgin?
St. Joseph?
Another Saint?

And if you’d like to describe HOW you pray, feel free to do so…but please do not include the rosary, the Our Father, or other formula prayers – I am interested only in personal, one-on-one, intimate prayers wherein you are speaking to the individual.

Thank you.

R. Abanes

Like most Catholics here, I couldn’t vote. The options doesn’t include the Holy Trinity whom I pray to.

Well, I pray to the Father, and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit. I implore Mary and the saints to join me in prayers whether it’s petitions or thanksgiving. If it’s a petition that would include asking Mary to intercede.

The highest form of prayer and worship for me is the celebration of the Holy Eucharist - the summit of all worship. You cannot do that all the time though as you’d need a priest as a celebrant.

As for personal prayer, I like to use the Bible to help me to contemplate and allow God to speak to me thorugh His word and to address my everyday life. My best quiet time with the Lord is early in the morning in my own private room before I’d do anything else. I’d not miss it even when I am travelling. Most of the time during prayer, except for some very dry spelt, I experience the Holy Spirit prompting and inspiring me. Some of the inspirations I would use in giving testimony or a little teachings when I am required.

God bless.

 

[Lancer]

I believe and was taught:

All of our prayers are to the Father…and they are** ALWAYS AND EVERYWHERE ** through Our Lord Jesus Christ. Actually, we “cannot” and are “not authorized” to pray to the Father directly (I don’t mean in some legalistic way, but just in the sense that we are no where near “worthy enough” to pray or go directly to the Father for anything)…even when we say/think that we are praying directly to the Father or to God (as the Trinity)…we are really (and always) praying through Our Lord Jesus Christ. There is only one prayer that we can and are authorized to pray to the Father directly…“The Our Father”…and that is only because Our Lord Jesus Christ taught us and directed us to do so. ** Notice** that in all of our liturgical prayers to the Father…or to God…or to the Lord…we end them with…“we ask this (grant this) through Our Lord Jesus Christ, your son, who lives and reigns with you (in the unity of the Holy Spirit) and the Holy Spirit, one God forever and forever.” The “Our Father”…simply ends with the (always very, very important declaration): Amen! This spiritual thinking is from the Great Doxology at the end of the Canon in Holy Mass when Jesus as the High Priest (the celebrating priest in persona Christi) and as the Victim offers himself to the Father (we are lifted up in this offering also by Jesus Himself to the Father) “for it is…through Him, with Him and in Him…all glory and honor is yours almighty Father, forever and ever.” “The Great Amen” then closes the canon offertory prayer.

All prayers TO the Blessed Virgin Mary and/or TO the saints, or the Angels…are to Our Lord Jesus through the “intercessor”. Obviously, The Blessed Mother Mary’s intercession is the most powerful (this idea that the angels would pray to God through Jesus…the God-man of flesh and spirit…maybe what sent Lucifer and his gang of misfits into rebellion against God the Father when this plan was revealed to them).

Lastly…I was taught this way of prayer by Josephites, Dominicans and the Ursuline Sisters…who ministered to us Blacks in the South during Jim Crow-segregation. I grew up with segregated liturgical worship services and segregated catechisms classes in our Church. I thank God the Father, through Our Lord Jesus Christ, his son, that by the power of the Holy Spirit, I am still in this one, holy, Catholic and apostolic Latin Church. Amen! What a gift! Amen!

 

[BLUEMOON74]

That has been my experience as well. Keeps me from praying those “just” prayers, too. Y’know: “Lord, we just come to you today and we just thank you and just ask that you just be with us today and just bless us and just make us just aware of your presence in our lives…”

 

[Pixie_Dust]

**Pixie: **“Lord, we just come to you today and we just thank you and just ask that you just be with us”

RA: Yeah, I can see you were a traveling in some very familiar non-Catholic circles. Urrrghh.

RA

Well, God didn’t make me a Catholic overnight. It was a rather long and convoluted road.When I stopped leaning on my own understanding and put all my trust in Him, He made my path to Catholicism straight.

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

Waiter: “do you want ranch or barbeque flavored?”

Miss Piggy: “Urr…Yes”

Which relates to the poll, “all of them”

But I, as an observant Catholic (Latin Rite, “Roman” is a technically inaccurate label) ONLY “worship” the Trinity–either as the Trinity or as each distinct Person.

“Prayer” does not necessarily mean “worship”–it technicaly means “to ask, to beg”. In Catholic usage, their are about 4 different meanings for “to pray”, only one of them meaning “worship”–giving ultimate honor, recognition, respect, etc… that is only due to God (latria). Everyone else (the BVM and the Saints) gets honor and respect (dulia or in the case of the Blessed Virgin, hyperdulia). When we Catholics, Orthodox, Copts, and Nestorians (and a few Anglicans like CS Lewis )petition the Saints and BVM, we ask them to join their prayers to ours–the “communion of saints” in the Apostle’s Creed for as the Apostle Paul said, even death can not seperate us from Christ, and since we are all one “body” and Christ is the head and since “He is the God of the living, not the dead” the blessed departed are part of that same communion.

 

[graceandglory]

I am going with what most everyone said and say that I am not able to vote because the choices are too limited.
!

All of the above.

Just because I have a personal relationship with my Father, doesn’t preclude me from talking to my Mother.

Now, if you asked “Who do you WORSHIP?”

The answer would be all three Persons of the Most Holy Trinity…
God.

 

[graceandglory]

Before we get any farther, can we agree on a definition of prayer?

I suggest this one by m-w.com

pray

Main Entry:

** Middle English, from Anglo-French prier, praer, preier, from Latin precari, from prec-, prex request, prayer; **akin to Old High German frāga question, frāgēn to ask, Sanskrit pṛcchati he asks
Date:
13th century

transitive verb 1 : entreat , implore —often used as a function word in introducing a question, request, or plea 2 : to get or bring by praying

intransitive verb **1 : to make a request in a humble manner **2 : to address God or a god with adoration, confession, supplication, or thanksgiving

If people don’t agree on the definition of the word in the question, you’re going to get skewed results based on a language difference.

 

[Richard_Abanes]

grace: doesn’t preclude me from talking to my Mother.

**RA: **YOUR mother?? With a Capital “M”? I thought … never mind, I said I wouldn’t rebuttle and I won’t.

But just fyi, it’s this kind of language that causes protestants to gnash their teeth and tear their clothes – it seems like you just inserted Mary into the Godhead.

RA

 

[AshleyBelle]

grace: doesn’t preclude me from talking to my Mother.

**RA: **YOUR mother?? With a Capital “M”? I thought … never mind, I said I wouldn’t rebuttle and I won’t.

But just fyi, it’s this kind of language that causes protestants to gnash their teeth and tear their clothes – it seems like you just inserted Mary into the Godhead.

RA

I understand what you’re saying…and I was one of those protestants once upon a time

The problem, is that it’s difficult to understand our special relationship to Mary when you view her through protestant lenses. When I am asked “why do you pray to marry?” I can give the long answer, providing scripture references, writings of the early church fathers, church teachings, miracles credited to her intercession… Or I can give the short answer.

I pray to Mary, because I love her son

 

[BLUEMOON74]

grace: doesn’t preclude me from talking to my Mother.

**RA: **YOUR mother?? With a Capital “M”? I thought … never mind, I said I wouldn’t rebuttle and I won’t.

But just fyi, it’s this kind of language that causes protestants to gnash their teeth and tear their clothes – it seems like you just inserted Mary into the Godhead.

RA

You are supposed to be objective remember, dont set people up for an argument, c’mon man, no comments from the Peanut Factory…do you want our Eastern poster to bring the little purple guy back???

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

TO ALL ROMAN CATHOLICS,

I’m curious…I am not going to respond at all, but I am simply asking a question just for Roman Catholics in good standing and practicing.

When you pray, who do you DIRECTLY pray to the most often (as in directly speak to them)?

God the Father?
God the Son, Jesus Christ?
God the HS?
Mary, the Blessed Virgin?
St. Joseph?
Another Saint?

And if you’d like to describe HOW you pray, feel free to do so…but please do not include the rosary, the Our Father, or other formula prayers – I am interested only in personal, one-on-one, intimate prayers wherein you are speaking to the individual.

Thank you.

R. Abanes

This may sound weird - but all prayer is directly to God.​

The Saint I pray to most is [St. Philip Neri (http://www.secularoratory.com/HolySpirit.htm):

• Cardinal Newman’s Prayer to St. Philip
  Philip, my glorious advocate, teach me to look at all I see around me after thy pattern as the creatures of God. Let me never forget that the same God who made me, made the whole world and all men and all animals that are in it. gain me the grace to love all God’s works for God’s sake, and all men for the sake of my Lord and Saviour who has redeemed them by the Cross. and especially let me be tender and compassionate and loving towards all Christians, as my brethren in grace. And do thou, who on earth wast so tender to all, be especially tender to us, and feel for us, bear with us in all our troubles, and gain for us from God, with whom thou dwellest in beatific light, all the aids necessary for bringing us safely to Him and to thee
• Source: Meditations and Devotions

• as quoted in St. Philip Neri - a Portrait by Pere Louis Bouyer (Gracewing Fowler Wright Books 1995)

• newmanreader.org/works/meditations/meditations4.html
• A Prayer of Cardinal Baronius*****
  Look down from heaven, holy Father, from the loftiness of that mountain to the lowliness of this valley, from that harbour of quietness and tranquillity to this calamitous sea. And now that the darkness of this world hinders no more those benignant eyes of thine from looking clearly into all things, look down and visit, O most diligent Keeper, that vineyard which thy right hand planted with so much labour, anxiety, and peril. To thee then we fly, from thee we seek for aid: to thee we give our whole selves unreservedly; thee we adopt for our patron and defender. Undertake the cause of our salvation, protect thy clients; to thee we appeal as our leader, rule thine army fighting against the assaults of the devil; to thee, kindest of rulers, we give up the rudder of our lives; steer this little ship of thine, and placed as thou art on high, keep us off all the rocks of evil desires, that with thee for our pilot and our guide we may safely come to the port of eternal bliss.

O holy Father, St. Philip, I beseech thee by the abundance of the gifts thou didst receive from God, both of nature and of grace, and by the glory thou dost enjoy in heaven, to help me to obtain the joys of Paradise.

• bromptonoratory.com/history/page4.html
  *****This is the usual attribution: another likely author is Baronius’ fellow Oratorian Antonio Gallonio, who includes the prayer at the end of his 1600 Life of St. Philip.

I*** love*** that second prayer - it says everything. He is almost the only Saint I pray to.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

grace: doesn’t preclude me from talking to my Mother.

**RA: **YOUR mother?? With a Capital “M”? I thought … never mind, I said I wouldn’t rebuttle and I won’t.

But just fyi, it’s this kind of language that causes protestants to gnash their teeth and tear their clothes – it seems like you just inserted Mary into the Godhead.

RA

Heh heh, graceandglory didn’t say Heavenly Mother like the Mormons have. Talking to Mother Mary and asking her to pray for us is not worship and she is not divine. I understood the logic of why and how Mary is our mother l-o-n-g before I crossed the Tiber, before I had any inkling I’d even BE crossing the Tiber.

I pointed this out to another non-Catholic and they totally didn’t get it - well, they saw the logic but couldn’t bring themselves to actually accept it. Let’s see if you can do any better.

God is Jesus’ Father, and our Father by His divine adoption, which also makes Jesus our brother. Jesus’ mother is Mary, and if Jesus is our brother then it very logically follows that His mother is our mother, too.

Not only that, but where it talks about Mary (the woman who bore the male child who would rule the nations) in Revelation 12 it says that her offspring are those who keep the commandments of God.

 

[tGette]

grace: doesn’t preclude me from talking to my Mother.

**RA: **YOUR mother?? With a Capital “M”? I thought … never mind, I said I wouldn’t rebuttle and I won’t.

But just fyi, it’s this kind of language that causes protestants to gnash their teeth and tear their clothes – it seems like you just inserted Mary into the Godhead.

RA

So then my signature must drive you bonkers, huh?

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

**Pixie: **“Lord, we just come to you today and we just thank you and just ask that you just be with us”

RA: Yeah, I can see you were a traveling in some very familiar non-Catholic circles. Urrrghh.

RA

LOL - that *really *brings back the past Do you ever come across the use of the phrase “…a place of…” ? As in: “…You have brought us into a place of brokenness…” ?​

These variations in how different Christians pray are fascinating

 

[Tsuwano]

I’m a devout Roman Catholic and my prayers, as prayers, are directed to God the Father. This includes my first prayer of the morning and my final prayer at night. However, I keep a running conversation going throughout the day with Jesus. This is prayer, I know, but it is informal and seems more like companionship or conversation. At various times throughout the day I also speak with Mary and ask her to be with me in my prayer and daily activities. On certain days I may ask a saint or my guardian angel to pray with me.

 

[graceandglory]

grace: doesn’t preclude me from talking to my Mother.

**RA: **YOUR mother?? With a Capital “M”? I thought … never mind, I said I wouldn’t rebuttle and I won’t.

But just fyi,** it’s this kind of language** that causes protestants to gnash their teeth and tear their clothes – it seems like you just inserted Mary into the Godhead.

RA

Nope. She’s not God. She is Theotokos, though. The God-bearer.

Do you ask friends to pray for you?
Don’t you believe in everlasting life?
Aren’t the Saints who have died and gone to Heaven part of “the great cloud of witnesses that surround us?” If not, who do you say IS the great cloud of witnesses?

Didn’t Jesus preach the Kingdom of God is at hand?

I agree with your comment about language. I honestly think my secular college degree in linguistics really helped me get over some difficulties I had.

One lesson in particular really stands out.

Every word has two meanings: The denotative meaning and the connotative meaning.

The denotative meaning is the dictionary meaning of a word.
The connotative meaning is what do people think of when they hear/say the word.

Catholics and protestants really have two different cultures and two different languages. Agreeing on definitions is really important when trying to understand one another.