Evangelical Question On Prayer

[Richard_Abanes]

Grace: than go with a new fangled interpretation.

RA: I am a bit taken how “context” and the actual words used in Greek is “new fangled.” It is, what it is.

I did notice, however, that you didn’t actually refute it – which would be rather difficult since it basically just says what it says. But instead, you referenced others who TELL you what it means, rather than just reading it for itself and letting the passage speak to you.

THAT is a major difference I see between evangelicals and RCs. Evangelicals rely on the text of scripture to speak because it is alive, active, and sharper than any two-edged sword (Heb. 4:12).

Imagine telling me that the Driver’s Manual I am reading says, per the English, that I can ONLY go 55 m.p.h. and that I MUST stop at red lights. That’s what the English says and that’s what the language means. But then I say,

“No, sorry, I’m not going to believe that because my Mom & Dad told me that the manual REALLY means something altogether different. Red means go faster to get through the intersection, and 55 m.p.h. is a suggestion. And they’ve been saying it for a really long time and I love them so I’m going to believe them – no matter what the manual actually says.”
So, please, read the Bible. Words are containers for meaning. I’ve told you what it says. Sure, I know I don’t have a nice black robe, or a nifty red cap, but I can read what’s put in front of me, and so can you. Read it. Don’t be afraid. Read it IN CONTEXT, and look up the meanings of the words yourself in GREEK. You don’t need some group of guys in Italy telling you what the Bible says when you can read it for yourself, IMHO.

I mean really, if you are just going to let the RCC tell you what everything means anyway, then why bother reading the Bible at all? OH WAIT!!! That’s exactly what I witnessed/experienced growing up a RC!! No one read the Bible or needed to read the Bible because the RCC just told us everything we needed to know about God. And WAIT AGAIN! That’s precisely what I hear from RCs all the time – they don’t need to read the Bible because the church tells them what to believe, what is right/wrong, how to get closer to God (through works), etc. etc. etc.

*Some *of you might be different here at CA. But, tbh, you are the exception in the world of RC. Do you not see the danger?

R.A.

 

[graceandglory]

So, please, read the Bible.

Read it. Don’t be afraid.

I do.

Read it IN CONTEXT, and look up the meanings of the words yourself in GREEK.

I do that too. Remember, my degree is in linguistics.

You don’t need some group of guys in Italy telling you what the Bible says when you can read it for yourself, IMHO.

Nope. But I will defer to 2,000 years of Tradition, and the Holy Spirit rather than my own limited 43 yrs of intelligence and understanding that I’ve managed to accumulate up to now.

I’ve seen what lack of Authority does to Churches, and it’s not good.

I left protestantism over this. No protestant denominations come close to Biblical Christianity in my experience. They say they believe Scripture but they don’t follow it. It’s not possible as a fractured church. The Christian Church is supposed to be universal. There needs to be sameness of interpretation. There needs to be an Authority. Jesus knew it was necessary.

Here’s an example: Church Discipline.

Says so in scripture, but I’ve never seen it anywhere in any protestant denominations. Ok, in some churches where they wanted to follow scripture, they would tell people they couldn’t come back to church anymore.

Show me Church discipline in your church. Do you have a tribunal that will hear out both sides? With a judge?

That’s exactly what I witnessed/experienced growing up a RC!!

You know as well as I do, that protestant believers do exactly the same thing. It’s all about Pastor X, listen to him, buy his tapes, read his books. Same deal. Human nature wants the easy way.

And, not everyone has the same READING ability, or IQ and ability to understand what they read and knowledge and wisdom to apply what they have read. Are they less of a Christian because they don’t like to read? What about faith? “Unless you come as a child…” (Matt 18 reference)

That’s precisely what I hear from RCs all the time -- they don’t need to read the Bible because the church tells them what to believe, what is right/wrong, how to get closer to God (through works), etc. etc. etc.

You are talking to the wrong Catholics. Find someone who you can meet mind to mind, someone similar in IQ, someone who likes to read. My guess is either you misunderstood them, or they were not great examples of Catholic people. God will not judge us on our ability to read and understand the scriptures. That is a totally new interpretation. Catholic communicants who attend Mass daily, get to spend about ten minutes listening to scripture from the Old and New Testament and Psalms. That’s how Catholics receive the Word of God. Historically it has been through listening. How could the early Christians who were largely illiterate, and btw didn’t have bibles of their own for like 1500 yrs, have a chance?

I dare you to try to make a case from Scripture that we have to read our way to salvation.

FAITH comes from HEARING, and HEARING by the WORD OF GOD. Romans 10:17

*Some *of you might be different here at CA. But, tbh, you are the exception in the world of RC. Do you not see the danger?

R.A.

RA, I know I’m different. I’m a reader and a highlighter by nature. It’s the way I’m wired.

We are trying to reach out to a post-Christian generation. I have found God’s One True Church. It IS the FULL GOSPEL Church. It’s not a pick and choose, and build your doctrine around a couple favorite verses kind of church.

It is one, holy, catholic, and apostolic. It’s not watered down. It doesn’t change with the time.

That danger you speak of, is it not what Christ said, when he talked about the wheat and the tares?

The tares will always be with us.
God will sort it out in the end.

It sort of really brings to mind the idea of the Remnant.

• 1* I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. 2* God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? 3 “Lord, they have killed thy prophets, they have demolished thy altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life.” 4* But what is God’s reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5* So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace*.
  Romans 11:1-6

 

[Richard_Abanes]

Grace: You know as well as I do, that protestant believers do exactly the same thing. It’s all about Pastor X, listen to him, buy his tapes, read his books. Same deal. Human nature wants the easy way.

RA: But it’s not official, is it? You’ve just said its wrong in Protestantism, but because it’s sanctioned in RC for a certain select group, it’s right. No. I say it’s wrong in both instances. In the RC, you get what I described previously. In Protestantism, you get cults. Both are wrong.

Much more to say, but alas, just not enough time to pick so much apart. We will have to agree to disagree on many things and give each other huggles. :grouphug:

RAbanes

 

[Richard_Abanes]

APOLOGIES. I was alerted to the fact that I had actually posted in THIS thread – I actually thought I had posted some of my lengthy responses and debate-stuff in another thread. mea culpa. I tried to remove my posts in this thread and post them elsewhere, but I lost my edit button. Does it disappear after a while.

RA

 

[emeraldcoast]

APOLOGIES. I was alerted to the fact that I had actually posted in THIS thread – I actually thought I had posted some of my lengthy responses and debate-stuff in another thread. mea culpa. I tried to remove my posts in this thread and post them elsewhere, but I lost my edit button. Does it disappear after a while.

RA

Yes Richard, the edit post disappears rather quickly on this forum.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

APOLOGIES. I was alerted to the fact that I had actually posted in THIS thread – I actually thought I had posted some of my lengthy responses and debate-stuff in another thread. mea culpa. I tried to remove my posts in this thread and post them elsewhere, but I lost my edit button. Does it disappear after a while.

RA

It goes after 20 minutes - 1200 seconds ​

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

APOLOGIES. I was alerted to the fact that I had actually posted in THIS thread – I actually thought I had posted some of my lengthy responses and debate-stuff in another thread. mea culpa. I tried to remove my posts in this thread and post them elsewhere, but I lost my edit button. Does it disappear after a while.

RA

Well, I say it’s your thread. You started it, so comment away! (Even if you said you wouldn’t, I forgive you.)

 

[Reuben_J]

I thought this is a thread on prayer. I thought prayer is a good topic and one of my pet subjects. I thought you sincerely want to discuss about prayers which is truly a good thing. I am quite disappointed at how this thread has deteriorated into Catholic bashing. Why deviate away from discussing about prayer, perhaps with improving our prayer life in mind? Doesn’t matter whether you’re a Catholic or not, but surely wanting to have good prayer life should be universal among Christians. Do you have anything to offer on this subject for us to ponder and to learn?

TO ALL ROMAN CATHOLICS,

I’m curious…I am not going to respond at all, but I am simply asking a question just for Roman Catholics in good standing and practicing.

When you pray, who do you DIRECTLY pray to the most often (as in directly speak to them)?

God the Father?
God the Son, Jesus Christ?
God the HS?
Mary, the Blessed Virgin?
St. Joseph?
Another Saint?

And if you’d like to describe HOW you pray, feel free to do so…but please do not include the rosary, the Our Father, or other formula prayers – I am interested only in personal, one-on-one, intimate prayers wherein you are speaking to the individual.

Thank you.

R. Abanes

 

[tGette]

In the name of the +Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

Lord have mercy. Christ have mercy. Lord have mercy.

Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art though amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

In the name of the + Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.