Evangelicals Will Be Extinct Within Ten Years

[always_gr8ful]

Hi Always I still haven’t got a response from you on this yet. Thought maybe you missed it so I posted it again,

Now let me ask you the question again, Do we have to love one another as the Father has loved us to be saved? Or can we hate our brother and still have eternal life with Christ?Thanks.

Do we have to love one another as the Father has loved us to be saved?

Let me ask you this - Do you believe that you are capable of loving say, me, as the Father has loved us? I mean, your last few posts to me have been anything but kind. Belittling, sarcastic, judgmental, yes. I wasn’t feelin’ the love there, Rinnie. As a matter of fact, I had shaken off my sandals and moved on.

The answer to your question is “No”. Belief plus nothing. Nothing, nothing, nothing. Your question is a question of the Pharisees, like the ones asked of Jesus hoping to trip Him up with scripture, hung up on the letter of the law and not the spirit. Do you realize that you can not even love me unless it is through Christ? That it is Him living inside you who motivates to love, and not yourself? What does “apart from Me you can do nothing” mean to you?

Again, to be absolutely clear - because my answer is not going to change - Jesus said “Believe” and you will be saved. Belief plus nothing. It is God’s Gift to you, and His Grace alone unto your salvation. You cannot add to it in any way. Do you need to walk it out? Activate your faith? Absolutely! But if you think that you are so perfect that you can love others as the Father loves us, you haven’t a clue as to your wretched hopelessness without Christ. You just got your own plan for salvation, and you’re working your plan and let me tell you, when you get to Heaven and stand before Christ your Judge, it’s going to be the biggest “DOH!” moment of your life. Because in that moment you will see, even with all your works, just how far you fall short from His Glory and how all your man-made doctrines and sacraments kept you from coming into the fullness of His Grace, mercy and love. HE didn’t keep His fullness from you - YOU pushed it away.

Or can we hate our brother and still have eternal life with Christ?

“If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.”
~1 John 4:20-21

Above those two verses are 19 more. They are utterly profound and can be life changing if you will allow them to get on the inside of you. I can’t think of a better place to start getting off the milk and onto meat than right here. Read them in the KJV, NKJV, the Message Bible, the NIV. Meditate of the Words. Here are some handy links to the scripture:

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20john%204;&version=9;

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20john%204;&version=65;

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20john%204;&version=31;

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20john%204;&version=50;

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

What do you think about the Montior as a source of spiritual truth? Do you put a lot of weight in it?

I only put my trust in Jesus, and because I know for sure the Catholic church is the church in which he founded, this article makes pretty much sense to me.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Hitler was no Christian (even though he made statements pertaining to divine providence). Hitler was a madman, and a sociopath (though I guess the latter is encompassed within the former … I had to add it in for kick).

It’s not to say there’s not some Christian megalomaniacs, however, they’re usually not Catholic (I know you guys will love that one). The CC really doesn’t lend itself to having too much of an individual identity. It’s pretty much a conformists religion. Whereas protestants will just up and start their own church if they don’t like how things are. I’m speaking mostly of unorganized protestants (and not so much the more organized and well established protestant churches). Moreover, televangelists are usually individuals with huge ego’s (and a healthy dose of greed to boot).

If ancient mythology is your cup of tea, might as well be Catholic or Episcopalian (or perhaps Lutheran). At least they have good choirs, excellent liturgy, and the priest or pastors aren’t too loud (especially useful if you had a good time on Saturday night). If you don’t have much of a taste for gay people, be Catholic (as you won’t find many gay people in a Catholic church … if you do you know they’re a real psychological basket case). If you can tolerate gay people, maybe Episcopalian (especially if you don’t like your wife, since they’re much easier about divorce).

If you’re really a self masochist you could go the conservative Presbyterian route. They will give you straight up unadulterated scriptural Christianity (what a drag). Basically they’re the world hating types, sort of like first century Christians (but not very apocalyptic). If you enjoy paranoid religion, there’s the good old Baptist types (who also include evangelicals, Pentecostals, etc.). They’re hoping the world ends tomorrow and we become embroiled in a global war against the Muslims in support of Israel (a fairly psychotic world view).

Religion 101 (or should I say Christianity 101)

I personally highly recommend sleeping in on Sunday morning, and grabbing a late brunch (and then perhaps going to see a good show or movie, followed up by a nice outdoor cafe with great wine). That’s just me though … (being a heathen and all )

I read Hitler converted to the Protestant religion when he became older.

 

[rinnie]

Hi always, I am sorry that you feel the way you do. I did not mean to make you feel that way and I apologize. What I wanted to do was drive home a point and I believe I have done that.

You are mad at me because all of the scripture has disproven your point, That we do not have to do works or we can fall from grace. I never meant to shame you in anyway. I wanted to prove to you that we did undeed have to do something, and I believe I did get you thinking. That was all I ever wanted to do.

There is no way we can Love one another without doing works. It’s impossible. I agree that everything comes from God,and without him nothing is possible. But all of that does not change the point of this whole discussion, We must do works that God put us here to do, If not what good is the grace that he gave us to do them for. ITs fruitless as God says.

Even if you deny the ten commandments you could not deny Love. Its still a work. Just because it comes from the grace of God does not mean that we have to do it. We have free will. We can follow the grace or throw it away. If we throw it away we walked away from God. and have not chosen him. That is falling from grace. And if you do not choose God and walk away from him, you cannot get into heaven. You have accused me quite a bit also. Repeately you said Jesus did not do enough, that is not fair either. Jesus did it all, and just because by his cross he set us free and paid for every sin does not mean we cannot sin. I am sorry that is not true. And that is what you are saying, If we love him we will not sin. That is not true. If we don’t repent and turn away from the sins we commit and die in mortal sin we will not see heaven. Jesus did not save us from actual sins by dying on the cross. He saved us from original sin. You have not showed me one piece of scripture to say we can die in mortal sin and have salvation. I have showed you that we can’t.

Please don’t feel that telling you the truth and showing you that what you say cannot agree with scripture that I am trying to hurt you. Quite the opposite I am trying to show you the truth.

 

[always_gr8ful]

Hi always, I am sorry that you feel the way you do. I did not mean to make you feel that way and I apologize. What I wanted to do was drive home a point and I believe I have done that.

Hi Rinnie!
Think what you will - we all have free choice to believe the truth or a lie.
There can only be One Truth - and that Truth if found in the Word of God - not man-made rules and sacraments.

The only point you drove home was how full of error is the Catholic doctrine. I feel that God used you to help show others that error, and that’s a beautiful thing.

Repeatedly you said Jesus did not do enough,

Repeatedly I said that through your rules and sacraments, you are saying that Jesus didn’t do enough. If you missed this, or twisted it to the extent that you believe **I **said He didn’t do enough, then your heart was in total blindness to my posts and the Word of God.

Jesus did it ALL,
Once and For All
We can add nothing
We can take nothing away

By putting a false confession in my mouth, you show me that the Truth has no part of you, but I did want to strongly deny the lie you wrote before Jesus, my Lord and Savior.
Dusting off my sandals and moving on now.

 

[Contarini]

Hi Rinnie!
Think what you will - we all have free choice to believe the truth or a lie.
There can only be One Truth - and that Truth if found in the Word of God - not man-made rules and sacraments.

Are you denying that baptism and the Lord’s Supper are found in Scripture?

Repeatedly I said that through your rules and sacraments, you are saying that Jesus didn’t do enough.

But you haven’t provided one shred of evidence for the claim that the sacraments instituted by Christ (baptism and Eucharist) are somehow in competition with Christ. This is a very strange claim on the face of it.

Edwin

 

[judechild]

Hi Rinnie!
Think what you will - we all have free choice to believe the truth or a lie.
There can only be One Truth - and that Truth if found in the Word of God - not man-made rules and sacraments.

The only point you drove home was how full of error is the Catholic doctrine. I feel that God used you to help show others that error, and that’s a beautiful thing.

Is the canon of scripture one of those “errors”, always gr8tful?

 

[humble_in_doubt]

I read Hitler converted to the Protestant religion when he became older.

I pretty sure Hitler never got to see old age

I do think he used some quotes by Luther and St. John Chrysostom against the Jews, trying to rally Christians (both Lutheran and Catholic Germans) to his psychotic world view.

 

[rinnie]

Hi Rinnie!
Think what you will - we all have free choice to believe the truth or a lie.
There can only be One Truth - and that Truth if found in the Word of God - not man-made rules and sacraments.

The only point you drove home was how full of error is the Catholic doctrine. I feel that God used you to help show others that error, and that’s a beautiful thing.

Repeatedly I said that through your rules and sacraments, you are saying that Jesus didn’t do enough. If you missed this, or twisted it to the extent that you believe **I **said He didn’t do enough, then your heart was in total blindness to my posts and the Word of God.

Jesus did it ALL,
Once and For All
We can add nothing
We can take nothing away

By putting a false confession in my mouth, you show me that the Truth has no part of you, but I did want to strongly deny the lie you wrote before Jesus, my Lord and Savior.
Dusting off my sandals and moving on now.

No I agree with you 100% thats what I said you said. That because we as Catholics believe that we must obey sacraments and follow the rules as you say, are saying Jesus did not do enough. ANd that is wrong, and a lie, Just because we Believe that we also have a part to do, does not in any part take away from what Jesus did for us on the cross. And that is not right or nice for you to say. I told you numerous times without the Cross we had no way to salvation at all. But I said we can lose salvation, and you have not showed me one piece of scripture to prove that we cannot lose salvation. Thats why you are twisting my words because you cannot back up your point. I have showed my scripture to disprove your point like you asked, but since you cannot do the same you say that I am mean. That is not fair. I have not said one thing about your faith, I just said your view on what you say scripture says and what it really says does not add up. And you asked me for proof and I showed you. Again you just accused me falsely again.

 

[always_gr8ful]

Is the canon of scripture one of those “errors”, always gr8tful?

I know you haven’t read this thread or you wouldn’t have asked that.
The Bible - the Word of God is inerrant and the One Truth. If we throw out the Truth of the Word, we are free to make up all kinds of man-made doctrine. God gave us His Word so that we may know the Truth.
Thanks for askin’.

 

[rinnie]

I know you haven’t read this thread or you wouldn’t have asked that.
The Bible - the Word of God is inerrant and the One Truth. If we throw out the Truth of the Word, we are free to make up all kinds of man-made doctrine. God gave us His Word so that we may know the Truth.
Thanks for askin’.

Show me one piece of man made doctrine I have given you. Again you cannot. Everything that I have showed you came from the Teaching’s of the Church and has the authority of the Holy Spirit. If the Church does not have the authority to teach scripture and define it, then the gates of hell have taken over. Which is impossible because Jesus promised me that would never happen. The last I saw the RCC was still standing.

 

[always_gr8ful]

No I agree with you 100% thats what I said you said. That because we as Catholics believe that we must obey sacraments and follow the rules as you say, are saying Jesus did not do enough…

I’m glad you cleared that up! I was starting to wonder about you.

But I said we can lose salvation, and you have not showed me one piece of scripture to prove that we cannot lose salvation…

I have posted numerous scriptures that show we cannot lose our salvation. Shall I go find them and post them all again? No. Because you didn’t care the first time - why should I think you will care this time? The lurkers that wanted to know have seen and read them. God’s Word will not return void.

I just said your view on what you say scripture says and what it really says does not add up.

Sorry - fail. I have posted over 170 posts of scripture - not hard to understand for it’s plain meaning - and I have given my opinion on ONE piece of scripture. So when you say “my view” of scripture, you must mean the ONE piece of scripture I gave my view on.

Like I said, Rinnie. God’s Word is posted all over this thread, and those who He sent it to will receive it or have already received it. You want to win an argument, He wants to win the world to His Son.

Please don’t ask me any more questions until you read the answers to your questions already asked and answered from His Word posted to this thread. Thank you.

 

[always_gr8ful]

Show me one piece of man made doctrine I have given you. Again you cannot. Everything that I have showed you came from the Teaching’s of the Church and has the authority of the Holy Spirit. If the Church does not have the authority to teach scripture and define it, then the gates of hell have taken over. Which is impossible because Jesus promised me that would never happen. The last I saw the RCC was still standing.

I just read something interesting on another thread. If something in your Church doctrine absolutely contradicts the Word of God (the Bible), which one do you go with? The Bible, or church teaching?

BBL to see your answer.

 

[Contarini]

I just read something interesting on another thread. If something in your Church doctrine absolutely contradicts the Word of God (the Bible), which one do you go with? The Bible, or church teaching?

It’s not that simple, because we are always dealing with human interpretation of the Bible. So what you are asking is: “if I, as one fallible 21st-century human being, interpret the Bible in a way that contradicts the historic teaching of the Church, do I trust my own interpretation over against that of the saints who have gone before me and from whom I have received the Bible in the first place”?

An orthodox Roman Catholic would answer “no.” I, as an Anglican, would say, “It depends on how clear the contradiction appears to me, how important the issue is, and how strong the consensus of tradition is on this point.”

Do you really think you are incapable of being wrong about Scripture? Have you never changed your mind about what Scripture says?

Edwin

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Rinnie:

Colossians 1:24 might help you.

 

[rinnie]

I’m glad you cleared that up! I was starting to wonder about you.

I have posted numerous scriptures that show we cannot lose our salvation. Shall I go find them and post them all again? No. Because you didn’t care the first time - why should I think you will care this time? The lurkers that wanted to know have seen and read them. God’s Word will not return void.

Sorry - fail. I have posted over 170 posts of scripture - not hard to understand for it’s plain meaning - and I have given my opinion on ONE piece of scripture. So when you say “my view” of scripture, you must mean the ONE piece of scripture I gave my view on.

Like I said, Rinnie. God’s Word is posted all over this thread, and those who He sent it to will receive it or have already received it. You want to win an argument, He wants to win the world to His Son.

Please don’t ask me any more questions until you read the answers to your questions already asked and answered from His Word posted to this thread. Thank you.

I never got a answer to scripture that says we can never lose salvation. My Church teaches that we can all lose salvation. If you could post just that scripture I will apologize for myself and for my church. I have explained to you numerous times it it easy to lose Salvation. Mortal Sin. That is what my Church teaches. You said we can still have salvation and have mortal sin. SHow me. My church states the opposite it says you cannot get into heaven if you die in mortal sin. The bible says that sin separates us from God, You said nothing can. I have showed you scripture to prove it. you ignore it.

I told you we were taught faith without works is fruitless. You deny that scripture. You said that does not mean that we must do works. You said it just means we should want to do works. I disagree with you, and you continue to get angry with me for it. I do not want to fight with you, Actually I refuse to, But I have to stand up for myself, my God and my Church. And you accuse my Church of lies. and I must set the record straight. I tried my best and when you could not answer me, you got angry with me, and then said awful things about my Church and myself. Just read the last few post’s what you have said in anger. That is not how this should go. This is about showing the proof that the Church has showed us, and helping people. Not this.

 

[Contarini]

I have posted numerous scriptures that show we cannot lose our salvation.

I don’t believe that you have.

Shall I go find them and post them all again? No.

What you don’t get is that just posting Scripture will not convince us that your interpretation is right.

For instance, you seemed to think that the passages you quoted from Romans 5-6 supported eternal security. To me they clearly indicate the opposite, because they say that all of us who are baptized have been buried and raised with Christ. Of course you disagree with my interpretation. We can have a civil discussion about why we interpret Scripture differently. People could learn from this. Perhaps we would learn from each other. But you refuse to have that kind of discussion, because you can’t accept the obvious truth that people can read the same Scripture and disagree about what it means. So you keep banging your head against a brick wall, insisting that we must be disagreeing with you because we refuse to read or accept Scripture.

So don’t post long lists of Scriptures. Instead, explain why you think these passages support eternal security.

Sorry - fail. I have posted over 170 posts of scripture - not hard to understand for it’s plain meaning - and I have given my opinion on ONE piece of scripture. So when you say “my view” of scripture, you must mean the ONE piece of scripture I gave my view on.

And your implicit view of all the other scriptures you have posted. We can guess at what you must think they mean, given the contexts in which you post them. But we can’t have a real discussion with you about them, because you won’t take the trouble to explain how you think they support your position. I refuse to play guessing games, addressing arguments you haven’t made but which I think you might make. It’s too easy for you to say “but that’s not actually what I think.” It’s your job to make an argument based on Scripture.

You want to win an argument, He wants to win the world to His Son.

So you don’t think I and others who disagree with you are wrong in our interpretation of Scripture? You are fine with me thinking that all the texts you have cited do nothing to support your position? Because that is what I think. I have read the Scriptures, and I disagree with you. Quoting them again will only confirm me in the beliefs I have already come to from my own reading of these and other texts.

Edwin

 

[rinnie]

Rinnie:

Colossians 1:24 might help you.

Thanks love. but I need to walk away now. I am doing no one any good now. Someone else may have better luck. but its time for me to spend more time in prayer. Someone else must take over. She said horrible thing’s about my Church, and I do not want to respond with anger. Maybe later on I can find a better way. For now I will take a TIME OUT.

 

[jfallaw]

Do we have to love one another as the Father has loved us to be saved?

Let me ask you this - Do you believe that you are capable of loving say, me, as the Father has loved us? I mean, your last few posts to me have been anything but kind. Belittling, sarcastic, judgmental, yes. I wasn’t feelin’ the love there, Rinnie. As a matter of fact, I had shaken off my sandals and moved on.

The answer to your question is “No”. Belief plus nothing. Nothing, nothing, nothing. Your question is a question of the Pharisees, like the ones asked of Jesus hoping to trip Him up with scripture, hung up on the letter of the law and not the spirit. Do you realize that you can not even love me unless it is through Christ? That it is Him living inside you who motivates to love, and not yourself? What does “apart from Me you can do nothing” mean to you?

Again, to be absolutely clear - because my answer is not going to change - Jesus said “Believe” and you will be saved. Belief plus nothing. It is God’s Gift to you, and His Grace alone unto your salvation. You cannot add to it in any way. Do you need to walk it out? Activate your faith? Absolutely! But if you think that you are so perfect that you can love others as the Father loves us, you haven’t a clue as to your wretched hopelessness without Christ. You just got your own plan for salvation, and you’re working your plan and let me tell you, when you get to Heaven and stand before Christ your Judge, it’s going to be the biggest “DOH!” moment of your life. Because in that moment you will see, even with all your works, just how far you fall short from His Glory and how all your man-made doctrines and sacraments kept you from coming into the fullness of His Grace, mercy and love. HE didn’t keep His fullness from you - YOU pushed it away.

Or can we hate our brother and still have eternal life with Christ?

“If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.”
~1 John 4:20-21

Above those two verses are 19 more. They are utterly profound and can be life changing if you will allow them to get on the inside of you. I can’t think of a better place to start getting off the milk and onto meat than right here. Read them in the KJV, NKJV, the Message Bible, the NIV. Meditate of the Words. Here are some handy links to the scripture:

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20john%204;&version=9;

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20john%204;&version=65;

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20john%204;&version=31;

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20john%204;&version=50;

I always love hearing people claim that the Bible is ‘clear’ on something. First of all, the only way it could ever be perfectly clear to you is if you were a native speaker of ancient Greek and Aramaic- and even then, the language is often poetic. Most people alive when the Bible was written could neither read nor write. The Bible was written by very intelligent people- people you and I would consider professionals. The Bible was not written by fishermen, like Jesus’ Apostles. It was written by people like Paul, who was a great theologian and extremely well educated. So when you say, “Jesus said ‘Believe’ and you will be saved, period”, I always laugh. They imply that our modern English grammatical condtruction explains everything perfectly. They also seem to think that Jesus’ mind was as feeble as theirs and that whenever he spoke a verb, he didn’t really mean it as a verb.

You cannot have ‘belief plus nothing’ because belief is an action that requires, guess what- plus something. I can believe that if i stop standing in the highway, I won’t get hit by a car. But if I don’t actually get off the highway, guess what? I’ll probably get hit by a car and prove the scripture that says ‘faith without works is dead (literally!)’.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Thanks love. but I need to walk away now. I am doing no one any good now. Someone else may have better luck. but its time for me to spend more time in prayer. Someone else must take over. She said horrible thing’s about my Church, and I do not want to respond with anger. Maybe later on I can find a better way. For now I will take a TIME OUT.

I understand completely, my patience ran out long ago as you know. But even if one raised from the dead came to tell her she is wrong, she wouldn’t hear him.