Even the bishops' conference loves the gay cowboy movie

[YinYangMom]

fix:

Which adults would benefit from this entertainment?

See post #116

 

[YinYangMom]

buffalo:

I guess I know have to ask what qualifies for an “O”?

See post #44.

You can go to IMDB.com and do a search on “Murder” or “Affairs” or any other word you can think of which would call up titles of ‘offensive’ movies.

I scanned through the list and searched the USCCB review archives of those I recognized as having been ‘popular’ to see what the USCCB rated them. That’s how I came to see where they tended to draw the line.

Keep in mind they review on **artistic merit **and moral suitability, not either/or.

 

[buffalo]

YinYangMom:

So I ask again, has this review led you astray?
Are you any more inclined to see it because of the review?

Not me, but maybe my kids.

 

[Orionthehunter]

fix:

I love pizza. The word love is used in many ways. To follow your narrow understanding of the use of the word love may seem to be finding the author in the worst possible light which is not very fair?

Sheesh. Narrow? I used the dictionary definition. If words mean whatever the writer wants them to mean, there can never be any intelligent conversation. Since it is against the rules to post quotes from other threads, I do suggest that one review your past posts where you are only judging their words. In those situations you obviously had a standard for judging.

Furthermore, your use of love for pizza and comparing it to this review is equally fallacious (defined as erroneous, misleading or deceptive).

From Fix: My reading of the USCCB shows she is correct and you are incorrect. The site says:

Quote:

A-I – general patronage;
A-II – adults and adolescents;
A-III – adults;
L – limited adult audience, films whose problematic content many adults would find troubling. L replaces the previous classification, A-IV.
A-IV – adults, with reservations (an A-IV classification designates problematic films that, while not morally offensive in themselves, require caution and some analysis and explanation as a safeguard against wrong interpretations and false conclusions);
O – morally offensive.

Considering that you don’t think that words matter or one is safe to believe the writer is intelligent to know the definition, it is easy to understand how you also don’t think one should read the classification system used by the USCCB close. Please note the bold. Thus, “L” is the next to lowest rating. They don’t use A-IV anymore. However the definition is still there as there were past movies (still on the website) w/ that rating.

Furthermore, it is SIMPLISTIC to read any of these ratings to reach a conclusion that some are “endorsed” or “banned”. This was the old way of doing it. But, the Bishop’s determined that the spiritual and emotional maturity of people was so diverse that such SIMPLISTIC ratings were ineffectual and being ignored. The current system is about giving information, pointing out the pitfalls to the themes and plots relative to Catholic theology. They did that in this review.

It is then left to the prudential judgment of the faithful to determine whether or not to attend the movie. Personally, I consider myself emotionally and spiritually mature enough to see the movie w/o any threat to my faith or soul. I am properly informed of the content and agenda and fore-warned is for-armed. However, I also see no reason for me to spend my money to see this money. I’m not going to make that decision for others.

Finally, if I had jumped the gun and relied on a news article (another example of the media not reporting the news but advocating agenda) that was misleading and inaccurate, I’d just admit I made a mistake. But that is me. Again, I’m not going to make that decision for others.

 

[YinYangMom]

joyfulmess:

I have not and will not see the movie.

Did this review recommend you go out and see the movie?
Did it encourage you to?

 

[YinYangMom]

buffalo:

Do you believe in the artistic merit in porn?

Nope.
Neither does the USCCB.
That, is all Satan, anyone of faith knows this.
There is no way, no how, God is going to try to speak to us through that so there’s no reason for me to try to find a message from Him through it.

 

[joyfulmess]

YinYangMom:

Because it does not deserve it by their own standards, whatever those may be.
Looking at the type of films they reserve the “O” for, it seems to be reasonable it did not get the “O” you sought.

What I don’t get is why the “L” isn’t good enough for you. It reaffirmed you’re already preconceived notion this would be an offensive film by your standards, and it acknowledges it bears some morally offensive material according to Church standards. Thing is, the “L” didn’t change your mind, did it? You’re not going to go watch the movie because of it, are you?

You’re not happy because they didn’t rate it the way you wanted it to be rated, but you’re missing a very, very important fact. The reviewer saw the film, you did not. Therefore, the reviewer is in a better position to rate it than you are.

Per the site:

"movies have been evaluated by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishop’s Office for Film and Broadcasting **according to artistic merit and **moral suitability. "

You want them reviewed solely on moral suitability. The board reviews also on artistic merit - and that is where these distinctions lie.

Yes we want them to review solely on moral suitability, thats why they do it in the first place, to guide us and let us know which movies are suitable for the people that really care about such issues. We’re not talking about a Hollywood review here, we’re talking about the USCCB… a watchdog organization within the Catholic church and part of their job is to monitor for us… whats ok and what is not ok. We trust in their decision about these issues , but now I am not so sure.

 

[YinYangMom]

Yes we want them to review solely on moral suitability, thats why they do it in the first place, to guide us and let us know which movies are suitable for the people that really care about such issues.

No, according to the site, they do it to review based on artistic merit and moral suitability.

Since they aren’t doing it the way you want them to, then find another review source. Certainly there are many Christian sites offering ‘morality only’ reviews.

I appreciate the Church recognizing art as God’s work and their helping to guide us to appreciate it as such, so I’m fine with the USCCB’s approach.

 

[joyfulmess]

YinYangMom:

No, according to the site, they do it to review based on artistic merit and moral suitability.

Since they aren’t doing it the way you want them to, then find another review source. Certainly there are many Christian sites offering ‘morality only’ reviews.

I appreciate the Church recognizing art as God’s work and their helping to guide us to appreciate it as such, so I’m fine with the USCCB’s approach.

Are you gay???

 

[Orionthehunter]

I do think that there is legitimate debate whether or not the movie should have gotten an “O” or a “L”. Based on my review of the different use of the two, they are consistent. Different people will reach different conclusions.

However, this difference does not warrant the people who wrote the articles with the headlines characterizing the review by the USCCB as “glowing” or that they “love” the movie. This is still a blatant lie.

 

[YinYangMom]

buffalo:

Not me, but maybe my kids.

So talk to your kids about it.
You raised them well, if they are strong in their faith, I’m sure this film isn’t going to change their minds about the gay agenda, just as watching Million Dollar Baby would change their mind about Euthanasia.

Have you no faith, no trust in the roots you’ve established in your children? In your prayers over them? In the Holy Spirit who resides within their souls?

They have good, solid ‘translators’, and YOU, to help them make sense of any of it if you allow them to discuss the film with you so that you can properly guide them in how to discern it. You might be pleasantly surprised to hear from their own hearts and minds, how well they heard God’s message through it all, thus reassuring you of how strongly guarded they are by the Spirit. This should give you some peace and reassurance that your prayers are being heard.

 

[joyfulmess]

ying yang mom, the reason I asked if you are gay is because you seem to be defending this review, there is nothing artistic about 2 men having sex…that is not from God They were not even thinking about God when they made that movie and anyone watching it will not be thinking about God. It is satans agenda and you are buying into itand you are trying to convince others to do so as well.

 

[Orionthehunter]

Yes we want them to review solely on moral suitability, thats why they do it in the first place, to guide us and let us know which movies are suitable for the people that really care about such issues. We’re not talking about a Hollywood review here, we’re talking about the USCCB… a watchdog organization within the Catholic church and part of their job is to monitor for us… whats ok and what is not ok. We trust in their decision about these issues , but now I am not so sure.

They tried it this way. As I said in an earlier post, it is SIMPLISTIC to read any of these ratings to reach a conclusion that some are “endorsed” or “banned”. This was the old way of doing it. But, the Bishop’s determined that the spiritual and emotional maturity of people was so diverse that such SIMPLISTIC ratings were ineffectual and being ignored. The current system is about giving information, pointing out the pitfalls to the themes and plots relative to Catholic theology. They did that in this review. SIMPLISTIC denies the nuances of individuals and their capacity to excercise their God-given prudential judgment.

 

[YinYangMom]

joyfulmess:

Are you gay???

Now why would you ask such a thing?
Have you read any of my previous posts in this thread?
We’re talking about movies and movie reviews.

 

[Orionthehunter]

joyfulmess:

ying yang mom, the reason I asked if you are gay is because you seem to be defending this review, there is nothing artistic about 2 men having sex…that is not from God They were not even thinking about God when they made that movie and anyone watching it will not be thinking about God. It is satans agenda and you are buying into itand you are trying to convince others to do so as well.

Joyfulness, have you read the review itself? It says:

“It treats the subject matter – which a Catholic audience will find contrary to its moral principles – with discretion. Tacit approval of same-sex relationships, adultery, two brief sex scenes without nudity, partial and shadowy brief nudity elsewhere, other implied sexual situations, profanity, rough and crude expressions, alcohol and brief drug use, brief violent images, a gruesome description of a murder, and some domestic violence. L – limited adult audience, films whose problematic content many adults would find troubling”.

Ying Yang is not defending the subject matter of the movie. I don’t think anyone on this entire thread has said they think that the plot or subject matter of this movie is moral. She accepts and agrees with the review by the USCCB.

 

[YinYangMom]

joyfulmess:

ying yang mom, the reason I asked if you are gay is because you seem to be defending this review, there is nothing artistic about 2 men having sex…that is not from God

Yet, the exposure to the viewer of the pain these men suffer as a result of their condition, the pain their wives suffer because of their condition can be a message from God - the very same message JPII had been sharing his entire papacy - that SSA does not and cannot bring happiness.

They were not even thinking about God when they made that movie and anyone watching it will not be thinking about God.

I’d suspect you are right that they weren’t thinking about God, but that doesn’t mean God wasn’t thinking about them when He inspired them to create such a story in print, then in film. **HE **is using **them **as He uses all His creations.

In typical Satan fashion, since he cannot create anything, he uses God’s work to try to pull people away from Him, so certainly he is attempting to here, as well…but since the film appears to emphasize the pain of SSA over the joy/glory…I’m inclined to believe God ruled on this one.

It is satans agenda and you are buying into itand you are trying to convince others to do so as well.

I’m not encouraging anyone to see the film.
I’m defending the reviewer’s review as being fair and balanced.

 

[fix]

YinYangMom:

Because it does not deserve it by their own standards, whatever those may be.
Looking at the type of films they reserve the “O” for, it seems to be reasonable it did not get the “O” you sought.

Well, that is the debate.

What I don’t get is why the “L” isn’t good enough for you. It reaffirmed your already preconceived notion this would be an offensive film by your standards, and it acknowledges it bears some morally offensive material according to Church standards. Thing is, the “L” didn’t change your mind, did it? You’re not going to go watch the movie because of it, are you?

Who is is suitable for? Academic research into the culture of death?

You’re not happy because they didn’t rate it the way you wanted it to be rated, but you’re missing a very, very important fact. The reviewer saw the film, you did not. Therefore, the reviewer is in a better position to rate it than you are.

I am evaluating by the reviewers own words. He states “facts” about what transpired in the movie, then gives it a rating that is not consistent with the matieral he reported.

"movies have been evaluated by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishop’s Office for Film and Broadcasting **according to artistic merit and **moral suitability. "

Why are the bishops in the business of evaluating the secular artistic merit?

You want them reviewed solely on moral suitability. The board reviews also on artistic merit - and that is where these distinctions lie.

Artistic merit includes homosexual acts, gratuitous frontal nudity, rough sex, etc?

 

[joyfulmess]

Orionthehunter:

Joyfulness, have you read the review itself? It says:

“It treats the subject matter – which a Catholic audience will find contrary to its moral principles – with discretion. Tacit approval of same-sex relationships, adultery, two brief sex scenes without nudity, partial and shadowy brief nudity elsewhere, other implied sexual situations, profanity, rough and crude expressions, alcohol and brief drug use, brief violent images, a gruesome description of a murder, and some domestic violence. L – limited adult audience, films whose problematic content many adults would find troubling”.

Ying Yang is not defending the subject matter of the movie. I don’t think anyone on this entire thread has said they think that the plot or subject matter of this movie is moral. She accepts and agrees with the review by the USCCB.

Yes I read the review and it made me sick to my stomach. It was too sympathetic towards these characters We know in our hearts that the subject of this movie is immoral, and it should have been reviewed as such.

 

[fix]

YinYangMom:

See post #116

OK, so how much trash needs to be cultivated, overlooked and minimized before it out weighs the artistic merit of such compelling high art?

 

[joyfulmess]

So ying yang mom, in reference to post #116 does your “compass” tell you the same thing about all things? For example can one go to rated xxx movies KNOWING they are immoral and find “artistc” beauty and God’s message there ? Because your catholic conscience should put up a red flag and tell you NO…This is not meant for you.