Even the bishops' conference loves the gay cowboy movie

[YinYangMom]

cathgal:

Well, you’re one smart Catholic. Would that all Catholics are as smart as you. But we’re not worry about smart Catholics, just some dumb ones. :whacky:

Ok, but we need to do more than worry about our ‘dumb’ brethren, don’t we? We need to educate them with charity and kindness and love.

My point is we need to focus our energies on the Christians, not secular society. They don’t hold to the same values we share with our Christian brothers and sisters. Converting them is much more difficult than reverting people we already share a common denominator with.

 

[YinYangMom]

Elliott:

Wow. Bare breasts. Clothed rough homosexual sex. It’s not morally offensive. I guess I’m not part of that limited audience.

Exactly. Some people are part of that limited audience, others are not. The reviewer correctly pointed out the scenes which a reader would need to help determine whether or not they’re in that L category. You are not. I, most likely, am. And THAT’S OK.

 

[YinYangMom]

Al Masetti:

This is an excellent post. Years ago I used to go to the movies a lot but after a while I got tired of being “set up”. The writers would create an allegedly apparently sympathetic character and I would get drawn into the plot and the story and then there would be a suicide or some dark awful ending and I would start to question my own beliefs.

So I stopped going to the movies.

How does that happen, though?
I’ve yet to experience it myself. All those type of endings reinforce my beliefs and bring comfort to me knowing I am Catholic and have the Church to guide me, unlike these poor characters. My kids have responded the same way, especially with all those teen-type angst films. They walk away hugging their father and me, thanking us for caring so much, doing a good job raising them, and raising them in the faith.

 

[manualman]

YingYang,

Those who say “A story is just a story” remind me of the people who say “Advertising has no effect on me.” Self-delusion.

I read a transcript of an interview once with a TV sitcom producer. The interviewer asked a question like “What motivated you to go into TV productions?” The response was astonishingly honest. It was something like this: I have strong convictions about problems in American culture. I believe that in TV we can hold up a mirror to Americans, and that if we can make America laugh at what she believes, we can CHANGE what America believes.

Stop and let that sink in for a moment.

Sometimes a story is NOT just a story. Consider how the Bible teaches us about God, morality and natural law. More often than not, it is through stories. Stories can and are used by the evil one as well.

 

[YinYangMom]

davy39:

This really looks like a movie that a “free thinking” and “liberal” Catholic would want to see. I can’t imagine why anybody would want to watch it, even out of curiosity. It is plain and simply, out and out trash. I won’t see it and I will try to discourage other from seeing it.

Here’s the thing - art is art. God is the source of all creation. God is indeed working through our script writers, our song writers, our directors, our camera techs, our musicians, our actors, our dancers, our painters and so on down the line. In stage and on screen I am absolutely fascinated by set design, costume design, lighting, music, score and the such - there is so much more to a movie than plot and acting.

Now if my ability to see the good in all of God’s artists - while recognizing Satan’s attempts to mar the work - without it shaking my faith, but rather, increasing it, makes me a ‘liberal, free thinking’ Catholic, then I thank you for the compliment.

:tiphat:

 

[TPJCatholic]

Petrina,

I agree that the abuse scandal falls mainly on the Bishops and Priests, no doubt there at all. Yet, the mess the Church is in goes way beyond the abuse scandal and lay Catholics have a very large role in the state of the faith, and it won’t get better until lay Catholics acknoledge they have a vital role and rersponsibility. We helped get this faith to where it is today–that is a fact, not myth.

Many Catholics no longer go to Mass regularly, despite the fact that they all know they are supposed to.

Many lay Catholics utterly reject the notion of sacramental confession.

Many lay Catholics abort their babies.

Many lay Catholics use contraceptives.

Many lay Catholics reject core teachings of the faith and pick choose the ones they “like.”

Many Catholics fornicate and call it normal, living as if it is not a mortal sin.

Many Catholics support alternate lifestyles without any thought to the peril such things place the souls in.

Many Catholics divorce.

Many Catholic couples do not have more than 2 children.

Many Catholic couples refuse to encourage vocations.

Many Catholics commit adultery and do not even worry about their souls.

The list can go on; however, the vast majority of Catholics are very well aware of what the Church teaches and they have chosen to ignore those teachings. They no longer follow what they have been taught is right and wrong, they no longer even try to do what is right. Part of the reason rests with the Bishops and Priests, yet a large amount of it just plain falls on the souls of lay Catholics. We can have the best Sheperds on the earth, yet if people reject the teachings then there is little a Bishop or Priest can do other then continue to teach the truth.

The Bishops are faced with incredible challenges. How to get past their failures on the sex abuse, how to keep many parishes alive despite the legal and financial assualt they are under due to the sexual absue scandal, how to bring Catholics back without having enough new vocations, how to renew the faith without enough laborers, how to deal with the many dissenting Catholic and the many dissenting Priests and Bishops, how to deal with Catholics who have nothing good to say–only complaints, again their challenges are incredible…

So, while things like that movie review may not be perfect, we all might want to start supporting our Priests and Bishops, rather then finding more ways we feel they are failing. Again, a house divided is doomed to fall. Lay Catholics need to become Catholic again…right now a great many people are really CINO.

 

[buffalo]

YinYangMom:

Now if my ability to see the good in all of God’s artists - while recognizing Satan’s attempts to mar the work - without it shaking my faith, but rather, increasing it, makes me a ‘liberal, free thinking’ Catholic, then I thank you for the compliment.

:tiphat:

**Chapter 14 Liberalism and Free-Thought

** In our day the Catholic world, with as much justice as reason, attributes impiety as a quality of free-thought, whether in a person, a journal or an institution. “Free-thinker” is an odious epithet which few are willing to accept, but which many justly bear in spite of their protestations. They chafe under the appellation of the word, but find no inconvenience in being all that it implies. Persons, societies, books, governments which reject, in matters of faith and morals, the only and exclusive criterion—that of the Catholic Church—are Liberals. They acknowledge themselves to be Liberals. They feel honored to be so recognized and never dream of scandalizing anybody except us terrible “irreconcilables.”

Now change the expression; instead of Liberals, call them free-thinkers. They resent the epithet as a calumny and grow indignant at the insult, as they term it. But why this excruciating tenderness, this delicate sensitiveness over the variations of a simple term? Have you not, dear friends, banished from your conscience, your books, your journals and your society all recognition of the supreme authority of the Church? Have you not raised up as the sole and fundamental criterion of your conduct and your thought your own untrammeled reason?

more…

 

[YinYangMom]

manualman:

YingYang,

Those who say “A story is just a story” remind me of the people who say “Advertising has no effect on me.” Self-delusion.

I read a transcript of an interview once with a TV sitcom producer. The interviewer asked a question like “What motivated you to go into TV productions?” The response was astonishingly honest. It was something like this: I have strong convictions about problems in American culture. I believe that in TV we can hold up a mirror to Americans, and that if we can make America laugh at what she believes, we can CHANGE what America believes.

Stop and let that sink in for a moment.

Sometimes a story is NOT just a story. Consider how the Bible teaches us about God, morality and natural law. More often than not, it is through stories. Stories can and are used by the evil one as well.

Sure, like I said, they can huff and they can puff…doesn’t mean I’m a sucker. My strength is my faith. My armor is the rosary. I am not afraid of the big bad media machine. In fact, I also tend to hold to the adage - keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. How would I know what to pray for if I don’t know the attacks being waged?

 

[mlchance]

rayne100:

What in the worl do catholics have agains Million Dollar Baby? That was a wonderful movie.

No, it wasn’t. It was stupid. Any patient whose life is dependent on machines – as was Hilary Swank’s character at the end of the movie – has the legal and moral right to request those machines be removed so that nature can take its course. The whole “let’s be merciful and kill my surrogate daughter” approach to the end of the tale was ludicrous.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Brad]

cathgal:

Are they buying into the secular culture too?!

Some bought years ago and are trying to salvage their investments.

cathgal:

Heck w/ their review, I watched Land of the Dead anyway!

???

 

[TPJCatholic]

The renewal that Pope John Paul II spoke of can only happen when lay Catholics look in the mirror and see a person who is responsible for the faith every bit as much as Priests and Bishops. One of the most significant things that came of of Vatican II (teachings that were mainly handed down by St. Jose Maria) is that lay Catholics have a call to personal holiness. Lay Catholics have in large part ignored that call. Every single Catholic, lay or clergy, are called to santify their personal lives and to build the kingdom of God right where God has placed them. That is the true change of Vatican II!

 

[AJC]

Even the bishops’ conference loves the gay cowboy movie

Why am I not surprised that the movie reviewer for the US bishops’ conference loves the new gay-cowboy film Brokeback Mountain. (Of course Hollywood loves it and you should expect it to receive every possible award between now and the Oscars.)

While giving the standard nod to Church teaching, interpreting as closely as possible to aver that the while the Church says homosexual activity is bad, she’s just peachy keen about homosexual orientation and relationships.

As the Catholic Church makes a distinction between homosexual orientation and activity, Ennis and Jack’s continuing physical relationship is morally problematic. … While the actions taken by Ennis and Jack cannot be endorsed, the universal themes of love and loss ring true.Is that all that the official reviewer for the US bishops can say about a movie that attempts to normalize homosexuality as just another lifestyle? From the beginning you detect an enthusiasm for the movie that seems a bit untoward.

more…

This is why I am hoping that congress applies the RICO statutes to the Sexual Abuse crisis that plagues the Roman Catholic Church in the US. The Bishops as a group are complicit in this terrible tragedy andI would not be surprised if we find out that the majority of them have had or still have involvement in the homosexual lifestyle.

This movie contains, how can I politely put it, scenes of sodomy and at least tells how that disordered relationship takes it’s toll on the wife and children of these “cowboys.”

This is a propaganda piece pure and simple and for an employee, who I would guess, gets paid by my dropping money into the parish collection basket, to sing this movie’s praises is sickening.
A pox on the bunch of 'em. Once again this proves my saying that the USCCB are the “weak kneed” sisters of American Roman Catholicism.

I would call them as a group, idiots, but then I would be sinning and repeating myself.

AJC :banghead:

 

[Brad]

TPJCatholic:

Fix,

You might be correct, yet I have seen an awful lot of Bishop bashing on these threads in recent times…and I just don’t know how that helps anything.

Vatican II teaches that the lay Catholics are to be an integral part of the faith…so it is just as much OUR fault as it is the Bishops fault, yet I suppose it is easier for people to find a lofty target (Bishops, Cardinals, the Pope), then it is to see fault within themselves.

I find plenty of fault in myself. However, I am not giving any positive approval of a movie that is complete pro-homosexual propaganda. If you find me doing such things, please correct me. PLEASE.

 

[Brad]

TPJCatholic:

fix,

Yes, I agree. But, we must stand behind our Holy Mother Church and help those Bishops. They are being seige by satanic attacks from all sides and we must step-up to help them get the job done…they just cannot do it alone, they must feel at war quite a lot…which of course they are. I firmly believe that the Bishops love Christ, we need to show our love for Christ by helping His clergy do the task of evangelizing this culture. The harvest is plenty, but the laborers are few…we need to quickly become laborers.

Separate issue TPJ. I’m in the culture war from all angles. This is but one of them.

 

[TPJCatholic]

Brad,

Yes, I know you have given approval of the movie. No-one here has. I am only saying we helped make this culture what it is, and the only way the culture will change is if lay Catholics change. Frankly, it is up to us because Protestants cannot do it.

 

[fix]

Orionthehunter:

I think that the author Hilary White has born false witness against the Bishops by the following from the article you linked us to:

“Nonetheless, the US Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) has issued a glowing movie review of the homosexual propaganda film, Brokeback Mountain, a story of two rugged cowboys who engage in homosexual liaisons and adultery.”

I’m trying to think what person could read the USCCB review and call it glowing. It appears that Ms. White has an agenda.

First, to accuse another of a sin would mean you know the intent of the other person. We do not know her intent. Objectively it is not a sin because she has not borne false witness as she has given her interpretation of what she read.

“The bishops’ organization gave the film a rating of “L,” warning of its “tacit approval of same-sex relationships, adultery, two brief sex scenes without nudity, partial and shadowy brief nudity elsewhere, other implied sexual situations.” The “L” rating is two notches above the most censorious available in the bishops’ system - “O” for morally offensive.”

This is inaccurate. It is one level above “O”. But more important tha the specific inaccuracy, it shows a lack of “experience” with reading the reviews of the USCCB. This lack of experience and understanding of the USCCB may mitigate the gravity of this lie but it may not mitigate the gravity of not taking more care before attacking the Bishops.

My reading of the USCCB shows she is correct and you are incorrect. The site says:

• A-I – general patronage;
• A-II – adults and adolescents;
• A-III – adults;
• L – limited adult audience, films whose problematic content many adults would find troubling. L replaces the previous classification, A-IV.
• A-IV – adults, with reservations (an A-IV classification designates problematic films that, while not morally offensive in themselves, require caution and some analysis and explanation as a safeguard against wrong interpretations and false conclusions);
• O – morally offensive.

The USCCB don’t use the “O” rating unless the movie is deceptive (ala Million Dollar Baby) in the way it entraps the movie goer to come to believe a sin is ok (ala euthanasia is acceptable). It is clear from all the reviews that a person who believes living the gay lifestyle and adultery is wrong will not come away from this movie with a new opinion. In fact, it appears from the USCCB review that this movie will be confirming in one’s position of the sinfulness.

I do not know how these reviewers choose the rank, but any movie that contains what the reviewers admit it contains is offensive. If the rankings are interpreted as you say, then perhaps they need a better interpretation.

Furthermore, there is three ratings higher than “L” and one lower. Just on the face of this, it warrants the accusation that “glowing” is a lie.

See above.

I guess if you tell lies enough and long enough, people will start believing it. Personally, I consider this attack on the Bishops comparable to pro-choice Catholics in public office- a scandal.

Hyperbole, imo.

 

[fix]

Orionthehunter:

The title of the thread is clear “Even the bishops’ conference loves the gay cowboy movie”

Love as defined in the dictionary: strong affection or liking of something".

This is a blatant inaccuracy or lie. To tell a lie about another is bearing false witness which is grave matter. For a Catholic to tell a lie about the Church’s ecclesiastical authorities (Bishops) I’m sure is grave matter. If it was intentional (I have always qualified that I don’t know if was intentional), it is a mortal sin by definition. However, to be wreckless as Ms. White is certainly serious. As a Catholic, I feel compelled to defend the Bishop’s when wrongly accused.

I love pizza. The word love is used in many ways. To follow your narrow understanding of the use of the word love may seem to be finding the author in the worst possible light which is not very fair?

 

[YinYangMom]

buffalo:

I am the OP. The title is the title of the article. The mods have warned me that the title must be the same, so I followed the rules.

Sorry, Orion, Buffalo’s right on that point.
I, too, thought it was Buffalo’s own comment until I read the review and noticed the title of the review.

So, Buffalo, what did you think about the title the review chose? Did it surprise you? Offend you? Did you find it accurate?

 

[Brad]

manualman:

Part of the problem may be that the bishops have a hard time finding solid catholics, rooted in their faith, convinced of the truths of catholicism, educated and well spoken and EVEN TEMPERED enough to do reviews on matters like this.

I can find name 50 locally that would do a far better job. The issue is not that they cannot be found. It is who is selected. I mean that for many kinds of different USCCB tasks. As far as movie reviews, as I already stated, they shouldn’t be doing this at all.

 

[buffalo]

YinYangMom:

Sorry, Orion, Buffalo’s right on that point.
I, too, thought it was Buffalo’s own comment until I read the review and noticed the title of the review.

So, Buffalo, what did you think about the title the review chose? Did it surprise you? Offend you? Did you find it accurate?

I was surprised to see an 'L" rating. I thought it should be rated “O”. I cannot rely on the secular reviews, so I turn to the Bishop’s site. I would expect that it be rated from a truly Catholic perspective. I still can make my decision if I wish to see it, but I would have been warned.

The Catholic Church is the moral authority. The gold standard so to speak. This watering down hurts its credibility.