'Everyone will be Muslim because of our stupidity': Catholic leader says Europe will become an Islamic state because of the migrant crisis

[SuperLuigi]

Very Christian. I salute you.

Not sure what this ultimately gets at, but being a Christian isn’t about being a doormat; it’s about the Truth.

 

[SuperLuigi]

When and if the majority of Europeans turn a back on the immigrant is when fear would have conquered love and hope.

We are not called to welcome the stranger when it is easy or convenient. We are called to do this PERIOD.

We are not called to irresponsibility when it comes to immigration or any other issue based on an emotional, linear-thinking interpretation of Scripture.

Also, considering the USA refused to admit a German family that wanted to home-school and is now placing restrictions on Cuban refugees, I don’t think Americans have much of a leg to stand on here.

 

[Neal76]

Clearly Canadians are bad at Maths too!

I was top of my class in math, and that was in (post secondary) engineering. But I have to confess that I’ve never given the demographics calculations a close look. Would you like to work through them together? I suspect they’re pretty simple.

 

[Seamus_L]

Bringing millions of Africans and Middle Easterners to Europe because the continent has a low birthrate is a case of the cure being far worse than the illness itself.

 

[liturgyluver]

I was top of my class in math, and that was in (post secondary) engineering. But I have to confess that I’ve never given the demographics calculations a close look. Would you like to work through them together? I suspect they’re pretty simple.

Italy’s current population is 59.8 million with a fertility rate of 1.44 (incidentally not far behind that of Canada!) which has been rising steadily since 2000 when it reached its low of 1.22. It’s estimated to increase, but only slowly, to 1.71, and the population by 2050 is estimated to fall by 3m to 56.5 million. So you believe it can drop from 56 million to zero in the space of 50 years?

 

[liturgyluver]

Bringing millions of Africans and Middle Easterners to Europe because the continent has a low birthrate is a case of the cure being far worse than the illness itself.

Actually Seamus the continent doesn’t universally have a low birth rate - it’s low in some countries like Italy and Austria, but is lowest in Eastern Europe - Lithuania, Slovakia, Serbia, Poland, Bosnia.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Very true.

These people are refugees fleeing war and devastation, not even “immigrants” - as in people seeking economic opportunities abroad.

Italy has been left - through a lack of solidarity on the part of its European partners - to carry a particular heavy burden in this respect, however. For this reason the Italians have demanded “tough” treatment of Eastern European countries that refuse to accept refugees.

This problem would actually get worse for Italy if the Schengen system broke down. It needs the EU to take more of a role, not less.

Perhaps continuing to remain in the EU, following EU policies, and insisting that Eastern European countries indulge in self-destructive immigration policies is the problem, not the solution.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Strawman. Also, I’ve haven’t generalized and my comments made the distinction clear. Wishing I have is not the same as me doing it.

I’ve already gone over this. The Yellow Peril was overrated, but no one has shared with me yet how anyone in East Asia was not-so-secretly plotting to conquer the West through demographics and ideology.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Italy’s current population is 59.8 million with a fertility rate of 1.44 (incidentally not far behind that of Canada!) which has been rising steadily since 2000 when it reached its low of 1.22. It’s estimated to increase, but only slowly, to 1.71, and the population by 2050 is estimated to fall by 3m to 56.5 million. So you believe it can drop from 56 million to zero in the space of 50 years?

50 years with no births equals no population at all. Now, I don’t think that will happen, but projecting populations depends entirely on one’s assumptions.

 

[Seamus_L]

I think the people who want the migrants are going to get there wish, but as the old saying goes “Be careful what you ask for, because you just might get it”.

 

[Neal76]

Italy’s current population is 59.8 million with a fertility rate of 1.44 (incidentally not far behind that of Canada!) which has been rising steadily since 2000 when it reached its low of 1.22. It’s estimated to increase, but only slowly, to 1.71, and the population by 2050 is estimated to fall by 3m to 56.5 million. So you believe it can drop from 56 million to zero in the space of 50 years?

You’re using the UN’s population growth estimates, which include some pretty optimistic, not to say historically unprecedented, sustained reversals in total fertility rates (nice to see you drilling down into the numbers though). You neglected to mention what percentage of the present turnaround in fertility rate is due to the non-native population, and how much the population at 2050 has to be supported by additional immigration. Otherwise, I’d like to say (as I haven’t constructed a model yet myself, maybe tonight) that your numbers (which have some substance) do generally present a rosier picture than what I suggested. Maybe Italy makes it 50-100 years longer than I suggested, but they’re still caught in a negative feedback loop, demographically speaking, as your numbers state. I have a hard time seeing that as a win for Italy.

 

[Mark121359]

The percentages argument really falls flat on its face in Europe. There actually doesn’t need to be a majority of Muslims, or even radical Muslims, for sharia to be forced on the people.

The above bolded got my attention. A few weeks back, I was listening to an interview with James E. Mitchell. He’s the man who developed enhanced interrogation techniques that the CIA agents were using to obtain information from terrorists under then-president George W. Bush. He also has written a book titled; * “Enhanced Interrogation: Inside the Minds and Motives of the Islamic Terrorists Trying To Destroy America.”* In the book, Mitchell tells how when questioning Khalid Sheik Mohammed, the 9/11 mastermind, he said that; “He and his brothers will not stop until the entire world lives under Sharia law.” He also gave a chilling account for their ultimate plan for conquering America;

“It would be nice,” he said, if al Qaeda or like-minded Islamists could bring America to its knees with catastrophic attacks, but that was unlikely to happen; “not practical” is the wording he used. From his perspective, the long war for Islamic domination wasn’t going to be won in the streets with bombs and bullets and bloodshed. No, it would be won in the minds of the American people.

He said the terror attacks were good, but the “practical” way to defeat America was through immigration and by outbreeding non-Muslims. He said jihadi-minded brothers would immigrate into the United States, taking advantage of the welfare system to support themselves while they spread their jihadi message. They will wrap themselves in America’s rights and laws for protection, ratchet up acceptance of Sharia law, and then, only when they were strong enough, rise up and violently impose Sharia from within. He said the brothers would relentlessly continue their attacks and the American people eventually would become so tired, so frightened, and so weary of war that they would just want it to end.

“Eventually,” KSM said, “America will expose her neck to us for slaughter.”

Now the above may seem chilling to some. But for me, it’s what Mr. Mitchell said in that interview for his book I heard a few weeks back. As of 2014 he was very much still in contact with KSM and others at Gitmo. He says that hostile muslims will bring about sharia compliance by using the west’s weak response of political correctness to every cultural challenge. Muslims will claim to be offended at our customs, and westerners will alter their behavior to quiet them for fear of offending them.

Bring us to our very knees by using America’s chief weakness against us. Political correctness…Now that my friends really*** is *** chilling!

Peace, Mark

 

[7_Sorrows]

Most of this is because of cultural suicide. It’s obvious to me that the sharia law activists are merely taking advantage of the situation. They aren’t using a conquering army, and quite frankly, they don’t need one.

They are patient and will bide their time.

I agree. they know there are plenty willing to be doormats!

 

[Robert_Sock]

Don’t we value freedom? If Muslims have the power and influence to turn Europe into an Islamic state, should we not allow it if it’s done peacefully and they do not violate human rights?

 

[liturgyluver]

You’re using the UN’s population growth estimates, which include some pretty optimistic, not to say historically unprecedented, sustained reversals in total fertility rates (nice to see you drilling down into the numbers though). You neglected to mention what percentage of the present turnaround in fertility rate is due to the non-native population, and how much the population at 2050 has to be supported by additional immigration. Otherwise, I’d like to say (as I haven’t constructed a model yet myself, maybe tonight) that your numbers (which have some substance) do generally present a rosier picture than what I suggested. Maybe Italy makes it 50-100 years longer than I suggested, but they’re still caught in a negative feedback loop, demographically speaking, as your numbers state. I have a hard time seeing that as a win for Italy.

Italy’s birthrate is dependent on confidence in the economy there. The last 30 years have been chaotic but governments have begun taking incremental steps to modernise and reform - neither of which has been universally embraced. But I think the tide is turning and Italians are beginning to realise what they need to do to stop losing emigrants to Britain and Germany. This could have a significant change in the future, and could arrest the rate of decline, as in fact has already begun. Fear not, Italy will still be here in 2500, assuming we haven’t been eliminated by nuclear weapons or pestilence.

 

[Neal76]

Italy’s birthrate is dependent on confidence in the economy there. The last 30 years have been chaotic but governments have begun taking incremental steps to modernise and reform - neither of which has been universally embraced. But I think the tide is turning and Italians are beginning to realise what they need to do to stop losing emigrants to Britain and Germany. This could have a significant change in the future, and could arrest the rate of decline, as in fact has already begun. Fear not, Italy will still be here in 2500, assuming we haven’t been eliminated by nuclear weapons or pestilence.

How many ethnic Italians do you suppose will be in it then?

 

[ATraveller]

Sadly, he is correct. Muslims have a higher birthrate than Catholics do anymore which is very sad. Unfortunately, many Catholics practice contraception these days even though it is gravely sinful to do so. From what I understand, most Muslims do not practice contraception. The practice of contraception has lead to a dramatically decreased birthrate among many modern Catholics and since many modern Muslims don’t practice contraception, they have a higher birthrate and so it will only be a matter of time that the number of Muslims in Europe is larger than the number of Catholics. Even sadder is the fact that many Catholics in Europe are just barely nominally Catholic. Many Catholic Europeans don’t practice their faith except for on Christmas and Easter, if even then. Of course the same can be said about many American Catholics but we’re talking about Europe here.

That’s because children are still seen as gifts in Middle Eastern cultures rather burdens in Hollywood-poisoned Western cultures. We’ve bought into the lies of consumerism and ‘throw-away culture’ fuelled by popular culture and retail corporations that children need to have living standards equivalent to those of the very rich.

 

[Vouthon]

Perhaps continuing to remain in the EU, following EU policies, and insisting that Eastern European countries indulge in self-destructive immigration policies is the problem, not the solution.

If that were true then they shouldn’t have applied for membership of a supranational, continental, politico-economic union in the first place then, eh? If you don’t like the terms of membership then why agree to abide by them in the first place? It’s like marital vows.

No one forced them to do so.

But, of course, the incentives (by no means just economic in kind) were and are far too tempting to turn down:

theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/01/eu-poland-10-years-economic

**Of the 10 mostly post-communist countries that joined the European Union exactly a decade ago today, none has benefited more from membership than Poland. First and foremost, there’s the cash: the country received £56bn in development funds between 2007 and 2013, money that was used to build hundreds of kilometres of highways and express roads as well as youth sports facilities, modern sewerage systems, kindergartens and pre-schools.

Add to that the £60bn earmarked for Warsaw in the EU’s 2014-20 budget and the country will have enjoyed a windfall equivalent to roughly double the value of the Marshall Plan, calculated in today’s dollar figures. And that does not take into account the tens of billions of pounds that Polish farmers continue to receive in agricultural subsidies from Brussels. What we are witnessing is, without doubt, one of the largest wealth transfers between nations in modern history.

Then there is the boost the Polish economy has enjoyed thanks to its booming exports, which mostly head to other EU countries. A year before accession, Poland generated an annual GDP of £130bn; by 2013, that figure had grown to £305bn. Meanwhile, GDP per capita has risen from 44% of the EU average on accession to 67% today and is forecast to reach 74% by 2020. Small wonder then that some nine out of 10 Poles support their country’s membership of the EU, according to a survey last month .

But it is not just Poland’s economy that has changed; it’s the country’s citizens as well. Young Poles today travel and study all over Europe, taking part in exchange programmes or just simply packing up their bags and heading for the nearest airport. Many have now personally interacted with folk from different countries and races or know people from their families who have. This was not always the case.

When I first arrived in Warsaw as a student in 1995, most Poles had had little or no contact with the outside world. Communism had ended only a few years before. It was common for non-white foreigners to get called nasty names in public. The country was going through a painful economic transformation, times were tough and its frustrated citizens were often coarse and gruff in their behaviour.

But a decade in the EU and a decidedly more prosperous environment has helped to civilise Poles, much as prosperity tends to do everywhere. Nowadays, foreigners of all hues can walk the streets at night without fear of attack by skinheads, as was the case too often in the chaotic 1990s.

Poles have also grown more confident of themselves and their country. Many have stopped viewing their nation as the eternal victim. A collective inferiority complex, shaped historically by the loss of independence and foreign oppression, is slowly eroding, although it will still take some time to disappear altogether.
**

 

[Ridgerunner]

If that were true then they shouldn’t have applied for membership of a supranational, continental, politico-economic union in the first place then, eh? If you don’t like the terms of membership then why agree to abide by them in the first place? It’s like marital vows.

No one forced them to do so.

But, of course, the incentives (by no means just economic in kind) were and are far too tempting to turn down:

Most likely because no one foresaw the Importation of millions of Muslims into Europe at the time, at least not the way it happened recently. Turkey has tried to join the EU from the start but is not allowed in, and you can’t tell me it’s not because of that same concern.

 

[liturgyluver]

How many ethnic Italians do you suppose will be in it then?

The majority certainly but as to proportion your guess is as good as mine. Like most countries in Europe the bulk of immigrants are actually from other parts of Europe - in Italy’s case Romanian and Albanian.Most of course are in the North as that is where the work is.