Evil Harry Potter

[Titivillus]

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again:

Much of the Harry Potter hysteria and pearl-clutching seems to me to be gnostic in nature, a la: “This work is dangerous. I used to be the leader of a coven before I got saved. That’s why I can see the danger that you don’t”

To which I reply (if reply is at all necessary) by all means, if you have a proven susceptibility to the O’Cult, stay away from this as a near occasion, in the same way that I would advise a proven alcoholic to stay away from …um… spirits. But I in turn would not advise others “must not touch alcohol”, so I would not advise others who are suitably informed “must not touch Hogwarts”

 

[Sarcelle]

I’ve said this over and over in various instances of Harry Potter threads on CAF, that the magical powers are inborn. They were definitely not obtained by having relations with the devil or with the occult.

It’s more like superpowers.

Sort of like the ability to draw or paint or slam dunk.

 

[tgGodsway]

Okay… this sounds like fun. So if I can give you historical facts then you will do what?..

Demon possession is the end result for one who taps into the supernatural not in Christ. My friend John when he was in his early 20s was absolutely demon possessed with real manifestations in front of many people who could not cast them out. His mother practiced various forms of witchcraft to which he too became infested. Today, because of the power of Christ, he’s free and serves Jesus Christ, along with his family.

I man walked into my home Church with a crow bar and a gun. He came to kill our Pastor. The auditorium was filled with over 1000 people at the time… Later we learned the man was a practicing witch and his wife was getting counseling from the Pastor. He was jealous and afraid she might covert. The story is actually recorded on audio tape. The man came right up to our Pastor and commanded him to bow down to satan to worship him. Our Pastor refused and called out the name of Jesus! So the man pointed his gun right at him within 30 feet and shot off all rounds. Every bullet missed.

There was a man who lived in the caves of Gadarenes. He too was totally infested with unclean spirits. Actually there was a Legion of demons inside him. When they chained him, he broke the chains apart and it was fall to pieces. He had to live in the caves because no one could restrain him… until Jesus showed up. The spirit begged Jesus to NOT cast them out of the area, so He cast them into pigs. (This is a historical record of one who had unclean spirits.) Mk 5.

Consider Deut. 18:10.

10 There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer,
11 or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.
12 For all who do these things are an abomination to the LORD, and because of these abominations the LORD your God drives them out from before you.
13 You shall be blameless before the LORD your God.
14 For these nations which you will dispossess listened to soothsayers and diviners; but as for you, the LORD your God has not appointed such for you.

I counseled a man (and made him a stowaway) who was running from his wife because she was trying to kill him. Not with a gun or a knife… She was casting spells on him to which weird and strange O’Cultic images would appear on his physical body. You see, this man was trying to leave a satanic cult in the area and his wife and others were trying to stop him. They killed his newborn baby on an altar as a sacrifice to Satan and it was this practice that finally made the husband leave.

My step brother called me no day after many years no not seeing him. My Dad and his mother had divorced. He called me to ask me a question about Astro projection. He came to believe his employer was coming into his house and moving things around, yet the locks were untouched. Long story short, We prayed over the home and blocked the man’s spirit from entering, in Jesus Name.

 

[twf]

Then Cardinal Ratzinger was replying to someone else’s critique, and agreed that “subtle” references to the Occult could be dangerous for some. There’s no indication that he himself ever read Harry Potter or had strong feelings on those specific books one way or another… so I wish people would stop bringing this up.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

None of that seems to have a connection with Harry Potter except maybe spells in the loosest sense.

 

[Sarcelle]

Demon possession is the end result for one who taps into the supernatural not in Christ.

Did you read the books?

The so called magical abilities are inborn. It would be better described as superpowers.
It is passed from generation to generation. A person is born with them and we can conclude that it was given by God.

Unless you think people can be born with a talents and abilities that are given by the Devil.

 

[TheHolyTrinity]

None of that seems to have a connection with Harry Potter except maybe spells in the loosest sense.

In all fairness, Godsway is sharing through experience of loved ones and a friend who has dabbled in the occult or the craft.

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Ian Potter a childhood friend and playmate of Joanne Rowling states

Mr Potter, 43, who lives in Yate, near Bristol, said: “The girls, including Joanne, used to dress up as witches all the time. And the boys, obviously, would be wizards. I was one for tricks, especially in my younger days. I used to get my sister and Joanne to go in for me and ask my parents if I could stay out a bit later.”

and

Miss Potter, a sales director at a software company, also recalled how Rowling would make potions and read stories as part of their fantasy games. She said: “I think it’s mad to have a hero called Potter but that’s typical of Joanne.”

“We were forever dressing up. Our favourite thing to dress up as was witches. We used to dress up and play witches all the time. My brother would dress up as a wizard. Joanne was always reading to us. She used to read things like poetry and we would make secret potions for her. She would always send us off to get twigs for the potions.”

J.K. Rowling on The Diane Rehm Show, WAMU Radio Washington, D.C., October 20, 1999 (re-broadcast December 24, 1999) Transcript

DR: Do you feel yourself drawn in any way to witchcraft?*
JKR: [laughs] Not in the slightest. Children -

Further into questions, JKR admits with when it comes to a creature or spell in her books that she will find out exactly what the word are or what the creature was supposed to be.

DR: Is there a certain amount of very sophisticated mythology that you’re trying to work in here?
JKR: There’s - I’m not trying to work it in, but… If you’re writing a book that, I mean, I do do a certain amount of research, and folklore is quite important in the books, so where I’m mentioning a creature or a spell, that people used to believe genuinely worked - of course it didn’t - but, you know, it’s still a very picturesque and a very comical world in some ways - then I will find out exactly what the words were, and I will find out exactly what the characteristics of that creature or ghost was supposed to be. But I hope that that appears seamlessly. Children often, often ask me how much of the magic is in inverted commas “real” in the books in the sense that did anyone ever believe in this? I would say - a rough proportion - about a third of the stuff that crops up is stuff that people genuinely used to believe in Britain. Two thirds of it, though, is my invention.

 

[tgGodsway]

The so called magical abilities are inborn. It would be better described as superpowers.
It is passed from generation to generation. A person is born with them and we can conclude that it was given by God.

Unless you think people can be born with a talents and abilities that are given by the Devil.

Talents and abilities are one thing, supernatural powers are all together another. No human works any power without the assistance of either the Holy Spirit, or unholy spirits. Surely you read the Deut. 18 passage I quoted right?

 

[Bithynian]

Rowling is well noted for her interests in British folklore: she undertakes quite a bit of research to ensure that the Harry Potter universe is indicative of some cultural, literary or imaginative tradition in Britain. This is very similar to JRR Tolkien’s interest in Nordic heritage.

In any case, I feel that there’s a large degree of over-simplification occurring. The existence of a comical and mythologised form of witchcraft/wizardry in a children’s British fantasy novel has a very tendentious relationship with the claimed occult/demonic possessions of adults in America.

It would be like saying that children reading the Animals of Farthing Wood is responsible for eco-terrorist bombings of sawmills. Or that children reading Alice in Wonderland is connected with the abuse of hallucinogenic substances.

As for what children do in their playtime: they often roleplay as an immersive aid for enjoyment (adults do this too). When a child, I used to dress up as Batman. Of course, even as a child I knew that a blanket covered with Batman symbols did not grant me quasi-supernatural crime fighting powers, and fortunately for my parents I never leapt off the roof in order to test my flight capability. Likewise, I’ve never met a child who legitimately believes that a pointy hat and the word “leviosa” actually does anything.

 

[tgGodsway]

the practice of fiction in stories, movies, or drama, don’t have to produce anything to sell the idea. Some kids buy-in while others do not. secret oaths, private conversations with the dead, and so on, are all ideas the bible commands us to run away from. Deut. 18.

 

[Sarcelle]

We are still talking about the Harry Potter books right?

The books did not mention about consorting with evil in order to get superpowers.

It never encouraged people to consort with evil in order to get powers.

I can say with some degree of confidence that people who would like to play with the occult will not be using Harry Potter as reference.

There are already a lot of books that do this. Harry Potter is not one of them.

 

[TheHolyTrinity]

The books did not mention about consorting with evil in order to get superpowers.

Harry Potter glorifies the occult. God condemns the occult.

It never encouraged people to consort with evil in order to get powers.

There are many children out there who do not have a spiritual believe system, some will develop a deep spiritual hunger and will take the the left path. Once the reader’s curiosity is aroused, there is readily available information on the Internet, in bookstores or in the public library where one can learn more.

Minimizing the fact that throughout the books is indeed learning the arts of sorcery and witchcraft. We are in a world were normal looking people seriously practice the occult arts, some openly and others not.

I can say with some degree of confidence that people who would like to play with the occult will not be using Harry Potter as reference.

JKR admits that she has source the correct wordings - you can read Here
It fair and reasonable to assume that Rowling researched or has had some exposure to occult and magical practices. Yes in your eyes it is just a story, but stories can teach and influence people too. There wouldn’t be controversy otherwise. Best to teach Gods word about what He says about the occult.

There are already a lot of books that do this.

That is true, far too many books. These HP series trivialize the biblical warning against witchcraft and sorcery. These are Gods Rules, not mine - not someone else’s.

It also trivializes the sanctity of human life, the murder of the Muggles was revengeful and unnecessary. They had their faults as every human does, but Harry favoured his practicing friends where he they offer empowerment and a sense of belonging over the non-practicing ones. Giving the readers the impression that the occult is a safe place to escape to.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

Rowling is well noted for her interests in British folklore: she undertakes quite a bit of research to ensure that the Harry Potter universe is indicative of some cultural, literary or imaginative tradition in Britain. This is very similar to JRR Tolkien’s interest in Nordic heritage.

In any case, I feel that there’s a large degree of over-simplification occurring. The existence of a comical and mythologised form of witchcraft/wizardry in a children’s British fantasy novel has a very tendentious relationship with the claimed occult/demonic possessions of adults in America.

It would be like saying that children reading the Animals of Farthing Wood is responsible for eco-terrorist bombings of sawmills. Or that children reading Alice in Wonderland is connected with the abuse of hallucinogenic substances.

As for what children do in their playtime: they often roleplay as an immersive aid for enjoyment (adults do this too). When a child, I used to dress up as Batman. Of course, even as a child I knew that a blanket covered with Batman symbols did not grant me quasi-supernatural crime fighting powers, and fortunately for my parents I never leapt off the roof in order to test my flight capability. Likewise, I’ve never met a child who legitimately believes that a pointy hat and the word “leviosa” actually does anything.

Funny, there seem to be adults who believe in witchcraft / Wicca.

Modern Wicca, which draws its practices mainly from pre-Christian Europe, was established in the U.K. in the 1950s. Its popularity coincided with an in interest in other ancient religions that emphasize beliefs in magic and nature.
“Wicca emphasizes environmental relevance and responsibility. There is gender equality. People are looking for religions with a greater balance between male and female, the god as well as the goddess, the mother as well as the father. It’s an equal opportunity religion,” Fox said.

For a thousand years to be called a witch was tantamount to being labeled a heretic and ended with many innocent women on the wrong side of a fiery stake. Witchcraft remained a crime on the books in many western countries until after World War II.

Today, with the success of Hollywood franchises like the Harry Potter and Twilight series, being a witch has not only become mainstream, it’s become cool.

Real Witches Practice Samhain: Wicca on the Rise in U.S.

A growing number of Americans practice Wicca. Witches on October 31 will celbrate the Samhain new year holiday and not Halloween.

abcnews.go.com

 

[Michael_Anthony]

The spells are all direct or variations on latin words for what happens. one example is the spell used to light the tip of their wands. The incantation in the book is “Lumos” which is the Latin word meaning “Light” another is “Expecto Patronum” which does what it says on the tin, translating as “I await a patron” referring to the magical construct it creates (from positive memories) to defend the caster. This theme repeats over and over, with the author having explained that she based the incantations in Latin.

 

[TheHolyTrinity]

It is still Murder

There is several occult arts referred to in the books that are part of the real world and are not fantasy. As I said before the character HP glorifies the occult. There would be no controversy if this is not the case.

Harry Potter glorifies the occult. God condemns the occult.

In your world perhaps, but am Catholic and I do Trust in the Lord.

 

[Bernoulli]

Funny, there seem to be adults who believe in witchcraft / Wicca.

Curiously, Wicca is one religion that does not exist in the world of Harry Potter, because their theory of magic is incompatible.

 

[LilyM]

the practice of fiction in stories, movies, or drama, don’t have to produce anything to sell the idea. Some kids buy-in while others do not. secret oaths, private conversations with the dead, and so on, are all ideas the bible commands us to run away from. Deut. 18.

But a lot of fiction, especially movies, does not even exist to “sell” deeper ideas at all, but simply to entertain. I and millions happily watched Aquaman despite the fact that it had no real deep ideas, and indeed not much of a plot to speak of.

 

[Lou2U]

Two people stating JK Rowling used to dress up as witches and ‘make secret potions’ doesn’t mean anything. Has JK Rowling ever commented on this? Until then, these accounts cannot be taken as truth.

Further into questions, JKR admits with when it comes to a creature or spell in her books that she will find out exactly what the word are or what the creature was supposed to be.

She researches to use old folklore sometimes? So what? I genuinely don’t see the problem here. Giving something some depth or grounding in past folklore does not equal ‘dabbling in the occult’.

It also trivializes the sanctity of human life, the murder of the Muggles was revengeful and unnecessary.

Yes, it was. The murder of Muggles is always shown as abhorrent, done by evil characters for their own immoral purposes. It is never presented in a good light to the reader.

Harry favoured his practicing friends where he they offer empowerment and a sense of belonging over the non-practicing ones. Giving the readers the impression that the occult is a safe place to escape to.

The real reason Harry favoured his practising friends was because they actually cared about him. Living with his Muggle relatives, they repeatedly abuse and neglect him. The reader is actually given the impression that people who love and care for you are out there, and Harry is completely normal in his desire to want to leave his abusive relatives behind.

 

[TheHolyTrinity]

You can always come home.

Pax Christi
THT

 

[Flor]

The fact that an actual Exorcist ( one would assume this is a Priest who specializes in Exorcising demons ) said that the books contain actual spells - gives credence to the removal of the books from a Catholic school. Priests are the ones to whom the entire World turns to when an exorcism is called for. If an Exorcism Priest says that a book contains actual spells, we should believe him, ( even if we don’t perceive the same danger ) as the laity doesn’t possess the same insight as a Priest.