Evolution and Darwin against Religion and God

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Techno2000 said:
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Dan_Defender:
driven by natural forces
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Yeah…back in the old days there was millons natural forces that worked hand in hand with evolution to produce the 10 million plant and animal species we have today. :roll_eyes:
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Yes, exactly, and continues still today. 😋
 
John121 said:
I don’t think ye realize the confusion it’s spreading in schools, they are telling people that we are related to monkeys.
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Actually, that’s a common misconception. In fact, that was the precise red herring that skeptics used against Darwin, back when he proposed the theory!

So, no… teachers aren’t teaching that “we are related to monkeys”, per se. The theory teaches that we have a common ancestor.
John121 said:
which is a lie saying we have a common ancestor and this is the origin of humans is a lie and this lie is being spread.
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OK, then… what say you?
buffalo said:
Polygenism is not allowed.
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Well… maybe you descended from one monkey, then…! 🤣 😉
Larry1700 said:
which is run by a guy with a Ph.D. from MIT, along with other bona fides.
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Umm… his background is mechanical engineering, not biology. That’s like saying that your doctor is an expert in auto repair because he has an M.D. …! 🤔

One hopes that Catholic school teachers of science discuss scientific theories, and Catholic school teachers of religion discuss religion. No?
buffalo said:
Was the Holy Spirit sleeping for centuries letting the Church teach creation and now has suddenly woke up and says - Oh by the way - ignore all that Adam and Eve stuff, evolution is the way it happened.
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Aah, that reminds me – I wanted to stop at the store and pick up some (red) herring for dinner tonight! 🤣
 
Pope Pius XII, Humani Generis:
  1. If anyone examines the state of affairs outside the Christian fold, he will easily discover the principle trends that not a few learned men are following. Some imprudently and indiscreetly hold that evolution, which has not been fully proved even in the domain of natural sciences, explains the origin of all things, and audaciously support the monistic and pantheistic opinion that the world is in continual evolution. Communists gladly subscribe to this opinion so that, when the souls of men have been deprived of every idea of a personal God, they may the more efficaciously defend and propagate their dialectical materialism.
  2. Such fictitious tenets of evolution which repudiate all that is absolute, firm and immutable, have paved the way for the new erroneous philosophy which, rivaling idealism, immanentism and pragmatism, has assumed the name of existentialism, since it concerns itself only with existence of individual things and neglects all consideration of their immutable essences.
  3. There is also a certain historicism, which attributing value only to the events of man’s life, overthrows the foundation of all truth and absolute law, both on the level of philosophical speculations and especially to Christian dogmas.
Pope Benedict XVI:

“I find it important to underline that the theory of evolution implies questions that must be assigned to philosophy and which themselves lead beyond the realms of science,” the pope was quoted as saying in the book, which records a meeting with fellow theologians the pope has known for years.

In the book, Benedict reflected on a 1996 comment of his predecessor, John Paul II, who said that Charles Darwin’s theories on evolution were sound, as long as they took into account that creation was the work of God, and that Darwin’s theory of evolution was “more than a hypothesis.”

“The pope (John Paul) had his reasons for saying this,” Benedict said. “But it is also true that the theory of evolution is not a complete, scientifically proven theory.”

Benedict added that the immense time span that evolution covers made it impossible to conduct experiments in a controlled environment to finally verify or disprove the theory.

“We cannot haul 10,000 generations into the laboratory,” he said.
 
And Benedict doesn’t understand how science works either. Not everything in science is experiment. That’s a grade school version of science. You can’t, for instance, produce a black hole or a neutron star in a lab, and yet we most certainly can explain them, at least to some extent.
 
niceatheist said:
And Benedict doesn’t understand how science works either.
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Of course he doesn’t. When the failure of an idea is made evident always claim it is not just understood. It doesn’t work anymore.

Ahhhh - not everything in science is experiment. Bingo. If it is not empirical it is educated guesses. yes, we are left with whatis the best explanation. For a while it seemed evo was the best explanation. No longer. ID is the best explanation. Get used to it.
 
The core of science is observation. Einstein modified Newtonian mechanics to explain anomalies in the precession of Mercury. He didn’t have mercury in lab, he had the data and used that. Much of General Relativity had to wait years for confirmation, and gravity waves weren’t confirmed until just a few years ago.

Experiment is a very broad term in science, and doesn’t mean just lab work. It means models, theory, prediction and so forth . You can’t make a black hole in a lab, but you can build models and test them against observation.
 
Well, that’s on him. 😉
Again, I do believe in Evolution, but it is not good to shoot down someone’s concern with “That doesn’t happen” if it does happen.
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Fair enough. However, the concern wasn’t that there exist people who get it wrong in that way; it was that it was being taught as such by teachers at a Catholic school.

And part of that education is a grounding in science.

And all it would take, on the part of a science teacher in a Catholic school, is to say “and this theory of evolution doesn’t conflict with the teachings of the Church on the creation of the universe; in your religion classes, you’ll discuss the theology that the Church teaches on this subject.”
 
niceatheist said:
The core of science is observation.
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Yes. To be empirical it also needs repeatability and predictability.
We do not have any of these with macro-evolution.

Einstein could not deal with the results of Michelson Morley and Airy’s failure. He added the cosmological constant fudge factor to avoid it.
 
rossum said:
And, as I have told you before, the Pope was incorrect. The LTEE is over 50,000 generations in the lab and still going.
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And as I have told you over and over the Pope was referring to the past 10,000 generations. We will never be able to.
 
Gorgias said:
“and this theory of evolution doesn’t conflict with the teachings of the Church on the creation of the universe; in your religion classes, you’ll discuss the theology that the Church teaches on this subject.”
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That would be a lie.
 
And evolution makes predictions, and those observations can be repeated. That is science, not some strange garbled version that requires laboratories for everything.
 
buffalo said:
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niceatheist:
And evolution makes predictions, and those observations can be repeated.
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What will humans change to in say 10 generations?

Which evo observations have been repeated? Source?
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Don’t know. Prediction in science also doesn’t mean fortune telling. It means in many cases predicting what we expect to observe.
 
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