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Orogeny
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And neither is germ theory. But what the heck, none of it is science any way. Science doesn’t exist, right Ed.
Peace
Tim
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Peace
Tim
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edwest2
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I think you should send the Pope a letter outlining your thoughts.
Peace,
Ed
Peace,
Ed
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Orogeny
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Rogerteder
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Exactly. And with your credibility will go Faith in the Christian religion. You could very easily create an atheist - or several. Much of the Creationists arguments are bunk. These kids are not stupid. They do weigh evidence. Especially on religious matters. The young “fence-sitters” (and this is the age when faith is most tenuous-young rebellion etc.) may very easily reject Christianity completely when they see how flimsy the Creationist arguments are. In my opinion, Catholicism knows how easy it is to get burnt by using Literalist arguments against scientific facts. Capernicus, Galileo, etc. etc. The fundamentalists - because of their ignorance of history - haven’t discovered that yet.
If you don’t know enough about evolution to make a good argument For it, then how can you possibly argue against it in a religious class- which I presume is your intent. Best study what the Church says- and why it says it.
Remember, some of the greatest scientists in history were scientists. Most of them were students or instructers in Catholic Universities- which the Catholic Church invented. The Pope put Galilio under lock and key in the Vatican, not so much as punishment, but because he new Galileo was Right - and to protect him from the igorant mobs who would kill him. This threat came from both within the Church and from without it. Catholics are not threatened by evolution. We are not Fundamenalists. We do not have to bend, deny, or avoid scientific truth to fit a Literalist Bible interpretation. We are not afraid of science. Truth is Truth.
Robin
Robin I appreciate your comments. However, I know the question will arise about(Im teaching religion) Genesis and evolution. A student will ask how are we suppose to interpret Genesis, in light, of the modern science of evolution? Should we take it literally or figuratively? If yes or no why? What would you say?
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edwest2
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I don’t think so.
Respectfully,
Ed
Respectfully,
Ed
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Rogerteder
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Yes of course each human being has different DNA. That is how we can identify a person through DNA. I think everyone gets that. My question is this. Obviously scientists, through, testing can tell whether DNA is “bird DNA” or “Ape DNA.” Obviously there is some difference between our DNA and ape DNA. Through testing we can determine the species of the DNA. My point and question is this: Wouldnt the DNA, of a tranistional species, have to be different(identified as a different species) then the DNA of the species it supposedly has evolved from (yes the DNA would have similiarites, but should be different and be able to be identified as a different species)?
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edwest2
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I think Thomas Aquinas explained the action of God in the universe very well:
theviewfromrome.blogspot.com/2006/08/proof-of-god-part-ii-st-thomas-aquinas.html
I reject the Deist position that God kick started the universe and left it to unfold naturally. Objects, even particles, did not acquire their natures by themselves. Their actions were created. Called into existence by the Word. Only those who seek to exalt their own will as the only will that matters, as if there was no other will in existence, vilolently reject this. They either fear God or reject what they believe is His intrusive influence on their lives. As the creator of all things, they should view God as God, not as another fallible human being capable of envy, jealously or maliciousness against his neighbor.
In the early 1960s, I recited the Pledge of Allegiance which included the words, “one nation, under God.” But an atheist was offended by this. God was kicked out of public school. Don’t let God get kicked out of Catholic institutions, that is what they are for.
God bless,
Ed
theviewfromrome.blogspot.com/2006/08/proof-of-god-part-ii-st-thomas-aquinas.html
I reject the Deist position that God kick started the universe and left it to unfold naturally. Objects, even particles, did not acquire their natures by themselves. Their actions were created. Called into existence by the Word. Only those who seek to exalt their own will as the only will that matters, as if there was no other will in existence, vilolently reject this. They either fear God or reject what they believe is His intrusive influence on their lives. As the creator of all things, they should view God as God, not as another fallible human being capable of envy, jealously or maliciousness against his neighbor.
In the early 1960s, I recited the Pledge of Allegiance which included the words, “one nation, under God.” But an atheist was offended by this. God was kicked out of public school. Don’t let God get kicked out of Catholic institutions, that is what they are for.
God bless,
Ed
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Zeroth
Guest
Both sides?I am going to be teaching at a Catholic High(Religion) school this September. I have a degree in Theology and History and have spent 10 years in the public school system teaching history.
This year will be my first at a Catholic school and I am very excited because I am going to be teaching Religion.
Ok here is my question. Do you think this is a good idea? When dealing with creation/evolution I was planning on presenting both sides. I was also planning on explaining what a Catholic may believe about evolution. However, I was also planning on telling the students about evolution’s “weak spots.” I think it is important to talk about the seemingly lack of transitional fossils that should be in existence if evolution is true. Ok what do you say? Is that evolution’s “achilies heal?” Let’s keep it real simple—THANKS!!
If you are to teach history are you going to present “both” sides of the Holocaust “debate?”
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Orogeny
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Do you not see now why you should not teach science in religion class? This can prevent you from doing what you are paid to do. If the question comes up and the Church’s stance isn’t sufficient, you might want to suggest that the questioner take their science questions to the science class. That way you can concentrate on teaching religion.
Peace
Tim
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Rogerteder
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Well first of all Pius XII, in Humani Generis, said we shouldl present both sides as far as evolution goes. Please read it. The holocaust is established fact(at least in my opinion it is --although I think the numbers of Jews killed is up for some debate in my opinion–not that it matters that much). I dont think evolution is. That being said, you could, while teaching the holocaust, mention that there are those who deny it, and state their arguments. I dont see a problem with that.
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Rogerteder
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Is my question stupid? Ok maybe Sungenis can explain it better.
Here is his challenge(from his web site):
"It is a fact of science that species of animals contain the genetic information in their DNA which is specific to that species. Fish have fish DNA; birds have bird DNA; and animals have animal DNA. It is also a fact that in order to produce a fish, a bird, or an animal from an upward progression of biological material, the fish or bird or animal must somehow acquire the genetic material needed for its species. That being the case, can any Evolutionist tell us how, when, and from where does any particular species acquire this new and specific genetic material if, as is commonly understood, the genetic material did not exist before that specific species existed? If anyone can prove this process to us by the known facts of science, consider yourself the winner of $1,000 from CAI! "
That is my question, a transitional species must have different DNA. How does this occur?
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Zeroth
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I’m not Catholic. I don’t care what the Pope says.
Evolution is established fact as well. You may not think that, but it is a scientific consensus and the unifying theory of Biology.
So, if we can teach something as ridiculous and fringe as Creationism in schools, why should not other fringe “theories” such as Holocaust denial not be given equal credence?
Shouldn’t students “think for themselves” and to decide whether or not it occurred and not be “indoctrinated?”
What’s good for the goose….
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Orogeny
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No, but can you not see how deep this is? Do you really want or need to take time from the subject that you have been hired to teach to discuss this?
What are you, a disciple of his? You want to learn science, go to a scientific source. Sungenis is not a scientist.
Peace
Tim
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Rogerteder
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No I am not a disciple of his. I dont evn know him, but I do think his question is quite important.
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Orogeny
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In religion class? What does the principle of the school think? Do they want you teaching science or religion?
Peace
Tim
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Rogerteder
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Tim will you listen!!! PLEASE!! I am asking these questions in anticipation of a student questioning how we should interpret Genesis in light of the scienece of evolution. I am not talking(as i have said) about preparing a lesson on this. I know students are going to ask if we should take Genesis literaly or figuratively and how that relates to moden science(particularly evolution). I have only said this like" one trillion times" during this thread.
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jman507
Guest
I think you also need to take into an account that just DNA isn’t the end all be all of genetics. There is a lot that goes on that affects what gets used and what doesn’t, that is just as vital. Also there a large number of base pair differences that vary even person to person. There is also a lot of DNA that is “useless.” Of course, it may be useful at another time. Also how to exactly pin down what distinguishes one species to the next can be difficult.
I don’t know exactly what you are trying to figure out, so I thought I throw a few things out that may help. I guess I would say even if you have relatively similar DNA, the path to transition may all ready started. DNA all ready has some mechanisms that will let it change from generation to generation. Then it can drift away and become distinct.
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Orogeny
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Well, as also has been said “one trillion times”, if you want to learn science, stay away from Sungenis. He isn’t a scientist and doesn’t understand science. You have been give several links in this thread. Use them.
Peace
Tim
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Rogerteder
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Well I THINK Sungenis’s point is that if you have blood on a sidewalk, and you collect it and test it you can determine what species the DNA belongs to. If the blood was from an ape thetest would show it is ape DNA. If it was a mouse the test would determine it was mouse DNA. etc… This being said(if evolution is true) when a species transitions into another species how does the DNA change? When does it change? Does it change gradually, and if so when could it be determined that it is a new species?
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Rogerteder
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HOW ABOUT HIS QUESTION? Where does the DNA come from?
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