EWTN Tridentine Mass

[JKirkLVNV]

Your “thought” violates the Infallible Council of Trent.

Canon 7. If anyone says that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs which the Catholic Church uses in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety rather than stimulants to piety,[26] let him be anathema.

CHAPTER V
THE CEREMONIES AND RITES OF THE MASS
And since the nature of man is such that he cannot without external means be raised easily to meditation on divine things, holy mother Church has instituted certain rites, namely, that some things in the mass be pronounced in a low tone and others in a louder tone. She has likewise, in accordance with apostolic discipline and tradition, made use of ceremonies,[15] such as mystical blessings, lights, incense, vestments, and many other things of this kind, whereby both the majesty of so great a sacrifice might be emphasized and the minds of the faithful excited by those visible signs of religion and piety to the contemplation of those most sublime things which are hidden in this sacrifice.

You regularly violate the same by your dispargement of other rites of the Church.

I expressed a personal opinion regarding my reaction. I did NOT say anyone would be lead to impiety, not once. Why don’t we let the Church decide who anathema and who’s not? More arm-chair popery. Some people’s papal tiaras must be getting tight.

Besides, the things I found distracting could be easily remedied as things that have accrued to the Extraordinary form, not as essentials OF the Extraordinary form (things like picking the priest’s skirts up for him, the silly-looking birettas coming on and off, the absolute absurdity of the liturgy of the Word in Latin, etc.).
Hopefully, these things will be reformed in the coming reforms.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

This belief that external beauty in the Liturgy somehow corrupts it, is very protestant in origin. In fact, to neglect the outward beauty of the Mass is in itself very damaging.

While some people differ in their artistic tastes, and others lack it altougather, it is important that the external beauty of the Mass reflects it’s nature.

No one has said that external beauty isn’t important.

 

[francesco920]

They will be showing it 12:00 noon EST; that is, in 1 hour and 45 minutes from the time this was posted.

Sorry, please ignore this post.

The other encore was at midnight September 15, not noon…

Sorry again.

 

[Dauphin]

You regularly violate the same by your dispargement of other rites of the Church.

I expressed a personal opinion regarding my reaction. I did NOT say anyone would be lead to impiety, not once. Why don’t we let the Church decide who anathema and who’s not? More arm-chair popery. Some people’s papal tiaras must be getting tight.

Besides, the things I found distracting could be easily remedied as things that have accrued to the Extraordinary form, not as essentials OF the Extraordinary form (things like picking the priest’s skirts up for him, the silly-looking birettas coming on and off, the absolute absurdity of the liturgy of the Word in Latin, etc.).
Hopefully, these things will be reformed in the coming reforms.

Just don’t attend the Traditional Mass; don’t try to corrupt it. Each of the things you list has a real value for most TLM attendees.

 

[stmaria]

You regularly violate the same by your dispargement of other rites of the Church.

Show me when I did that?

Besides, the things I found distracting could be easily remedied as things that have accrued to the Extraordinary form, not as essentials OF the Extraordinary form (things like picking the priest’s skirts up for him, the silly-looking birettas coming on and off, the absolute absurdity of the liturgy of the Word in Latin

Now who is disparging other rites of the Church?

So you think that the Mass must be reformed for each and every generation? It should be in constant reformation? That is why I will stay with the Traditional Mass.

 

[francesco920]

Besides, the things I found distracting could be easily remedied as things that have accrued to the Extraordinary form, not as essentials OF the Extraordinary form (things like picking the priest’s skirts up for him, the silly-looking birettas coming on and off, the absolute absurdity of the liturgy of the Word in Latin, etc.).
Hopefully, these things will be reformed in the coming reforms.

This is a perfect example of the arrogant line of thinking that led to the deformations of the liturgy.

 

[Caesar]

stmaria,

Dont try to make sense of what some of them say. It is merely an attempt to protestantize Catholicism.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

So you think that the Mass must be reformed for each and every generation? It should be in constant reformation? That is why I will stay with the Traditional Mass.

Don’t put words in my mouth. I said nothing remotely like that.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

stmaria,

Dont try to make sense of what some of them say. It is merely an attempt to protestantize Catholicism.

That is simplistic, dismissive and UNTRUE. It is a sin to impute bad motive where there is none.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

This is a perfect example of the arrogant line of thinking that led to the deformations of the liturgy.

Try not to be jingoistic. There is nothing arrogant in those suggestions and you know it.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Now who is disparging other rites of the Church?

So you think that the Mass must be reformed for each and every generation? It should be in constant reformation? That is why I will stay with the Traditional Mass.

AND I didn’t disparge a rite. I said that those were obvious accretions. The trouble with “traditionalists” is that they can’t see the difference between an accretion and the parts that are truly integral. The former ossify and obscure the latter.

 

[Scotty_PGH]

You regularly violate the same by your dispargement of other rites of the Church.

I expressed a personal opinion regarding my reaction. I did NOT say anyone would be lead to impiety, not once. Why don’t we let the Church decide who anathema and who’s not? More arm-chair popery. Some people’s papal tiaras must be getting tight.

Besides, the things I found distracting could be easily remedied as things that have accrued to the Extraordinary form, not as essentials OF the Extraordinary form (things like picking the priest’s skirts up for him, the silly-looking birettas coming on and off, the absolute absurdity of the liturgy of the Word in Latin, etc.).
Hopefully, these things will be reformed in the coming reforms.

You can be quite certain that the “coming reforms” will be focused on you and your kind. You people have had 40 years to persecute the Church with your brand of reform. How did that work out for you?

The tide has turned. Get with the program. Break the guitar, slap a mantilla on your wife’s (partner’s?) head and learn some Latin.

 

[Caesar]

You can be quite certain that the “coming reforms” will be focused on you and your kind. You people have had 40 years to persecute the Church with your brand of reform. How did that work out for you?

The tide has turned. Get with the program. Break the guitar, slap a mantilla on your wife’s (partner’s?) head and learn some Latin.

Couldnt have said it better myself

 

[francesco920]

Try not to be jingoistic. There is nothing arrogant in those suggestions and you know it.

Calling venerable and ancient traditions “silly” and claiming to know better is not arrogant? Dismissing them without a thought is not arrogant? I’m sorry but I cannot agree with you. You are claiming to know better than hundreds of years of Catholics who were nourished by the liturgy. That sounds awfully Protestant.

Why is it that we modern people always think that if there is something that we can’t understand the answer is to get rid of it? Perhaps, if we are distracted by these ancient and venerable and immemorial customs, the problem might be with us rather than with the Liturgy? Maybe we, not the Liturgy, need to be reformed?

 

[DJgang]

Even the best materials and craftsmanship can be put together in a way that just looks awkward or downright ugly … not that this is a comment at all on the Shrine, I haven’t seen enough of it or up close enough to judge at all.

Well…television does not give it justice.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

You can be quite certain that the “coming reforms” will be focused on you and your kind. You people have had 40 years to persecute the Church with your brand of reform. How did that work out for you?

The tide has turned. Get with the program. Break the guitar, slap a mantilla on your wife’s (partner’s?) head and learn some Latin.

If this is the charity of “traditionalists,” then the Church is in trouble.

I’m not a cradle Catholic and I was never part of any persecution of the Church. In fact, I’ve prayed and hoped for “YOUR KIND” to be finally given your hearts desire. “My kind” never abused the Mass.

And “my brand of reform?” Please, make an effort at at least logical argument, if you cannot manage polite argument.

Slap a mantilla on my wife’s head? Partner? Are you being deliberatlely insulting? You’re post stands as a testimony to ignorance.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Calling venerable and ancient traditions “silly” and claiming to know better is not arrogant? Dismissing them without a thought is not arrogant? I’m sorry but I cannot agree with you. You are claiming to know better than hundreds of years of Catholics who were nourished by the liturgy. That sounds awfully Protestant.

Why is it that we modern people always think that if there is something that we can’t understand the answer is to get rid of it? Perhaps, if we are distracted by these ancient and venerable and immemorial customs, the problem might be with us rather than with the Liturgy? Maybe we, not the Liturgy, need to be reformed?

Where have I called the Tridentine rite silly? I said “the way it was offered.” Try and distinguish between the two.

 

[retrovert]

Have we fogotten where Christ was first worshipped? In a small smelly stable with the odor of animals, manure and swaddling clothes. That’s a far cry from what I saw displayed on EWTN. I know the intent was to honor Him, but how do we honor Him in our daily living? Are we trying to emulate the Savior in simple ways or are we trying to impress Him with our gold, “proper” dress, exorbitant liturgies, and whatever else we might use to possibly overshadow our shortcomings in following Him as we should.

 

[Caesar]

Have we fogotten where Christ was first worshipped? In a small smelly stable with the odor of animals, manure and swaddling clothes. That’s a far cry from what I saw displayed on EWTN. I know the intent was to honor Him, but how do we honor Him in our daily living? Are we trying to emulate the Savior in simple ways or are we trying to impress Him with our gold, “proper” dress, exorbitant liturgies, and whatever else we might use to possibly overshadow our shortcomings in following Him as we should.

Not this again…

The answer is that we must give God our best in all ways. To say that worshipping Him in a worthy manner detracts from living in His presence in everyday life is one of the most laughable things I have ever heard.

Just as it would be hyprocritcal to give God honor through a beautiful Liturgy, with ornate vestments and grand churches while neglecting our duties to the doctrines of the Church, it is also hypocritical to perform those duties while neglecting the proper worship of God.

We give God our best. And this extends into the Mass. Read the scripture relevant to Solomon’s Temple.

 

[Satriale]

Gauche, as in crude?!?!?!?

The worship space is one of the most finely crafted in the entire US! Only the best materials were used in its construction. For example, the striking number of marbles used in the floor are all imported from different regions of Italy. The exquisite detail work that went into the Shrine would probably blow your mind. I know, because my mother-in-law worked for one of the construction firms that helped to build it. In fact, the Shrine of the Most Blessed Sacrament remains one of the top pilgrimage sites in the US.

While the complex looks nice enough from the outside, the inside looks gauche to me. The floor might indeed be a fine example of the stone-setting craft, but its design is also needlessly ostentatious, garish and ultimately distracting. The gold leaf treatment in the sanctuary also looks gaudy and ultimately cheap to me and do the retro confessionals.

Ultimately what I dislike most about the interior of that worship space is it’s disjointed “catalog-architecture” look. It appears they just ordered the most expensive articles from different catalogs and then threw them together even if they don’t harmonize and “work” together.

The shrine might well be one of the top pilgrimage sites in the US, but it’s certainly not due to its lamentable interior design.