EWTN Tridentine Mass

[retrovert]

Re Canon 7, That’s exactly the kind of middle age legalism that caused the protestant reformation.

Your “thought” violates the Infallible Council of Trent.

Canon 7. If anyone says that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs which the Catholic Church uses in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety rather than stimulants to piety,[26] let him be anathema.

CHAPTER V
THE CEREMONIES AND RITES OF THE MASS
And since the nature of man is such that he cannot without external means be raised easily to meditation on divine things, holy mother Church has instituted certain rites, namely, that some things in the mass be pronounced in a low tone and others in a louder tone. She has likewise, in accordance with apostolic discipline and tradition, made use of ceremonies,[15] such as mystical blessings, lights, incense, vestments, and many other things of this kind, whereby both the majesty of so great a sacrifice might be emphasized and the minds of the faithful excited by those visible signs of religion and piety to the contemplation of those most sublime things which are hidden in this sacrifice.

 

[Dauphin]

Re Canon 7, That’s exactly the kind of middle age legalism that caused the protestant reformation.

Are you Catholic? If you are, you must hold absolutely to the decrees of this council. This is a Canon we’re talking about. Please think about retracting your statement.

 

[Satriale]

But I will apologize for one thing. I judged the building and I have never stepped foot inside of it and that is wrong of me. It might look/feel a great deal different in person then it does over TV.

I have heard people moan and groan about certain churches when they never have visited them, when in reality the churches,if not beautiful have some very strong points and have a good “feel” in person. The Hanceville Shrine might fall into that category.

 

[mao_now]

AND I didn’t disparge a rite. I said that those were obvious accretions. The trouble with “traditionalists” is that they can’t see the difference between an accretion and the parts that are truly integral. The former ossify and obscure the latter.

Dear Brother,
Why not live and let live???
Picking up the Priests skirts?? surely you were refering to lifting the alb, as A sign of reverence, and so the Priest doesent trip…After all the person of the Priest recedes, and he acts “In persona Christi” It is this belief, that fosters this great reverence…

Removing silly looking Birettas???..Dear brother, they are uncovering their heads at the Most Holy Name of Jesus…the Author of our salvation…God Incarnate…The sanctuary is A throne room, And they are conscious of being in the prescence of the king of the Universe…The All good…The source of all life…

Contemplate these things, if you do not understand…
And please choose your words carefully,
This rite was the center of the Church’s liturgical life, for centuries…
God Bless

 

[Scotty_PGH]

Dear Brother,
Why not live and let live???
Picking up the Priests skirts?? surely you were refering to lifting the alb, as A sign of reverence, and so the Priest doesent trip…After all the person of the Priest recedes, and he acts “In persona Christi” It is this belief, that fosters this great reverence…

Removing silly looking Birettas???..Dear brother, they are uncovering their heads at the Most Holy Name of Jesus…the Author of our salvation…God Incarnate…The sanctuary is A throne room, And they are conscious of being in the prescence of the king of the Universe…The All good…The source of all life…

Contemplate these things, if you do not understand…
And please choose your words carefully,
This rite was the center of the Church’s liturgical life, for centuries…
God Bless

 

[sneakers]

St. Peter’s Basilica must really turn your stomach too then.

Why the venom on the part of some folks? The church (not “worship space” or “worship center”) in Hanceville is beautiful and the best that the religious community can give to God. Why would this bother some people to the point where they have nothing but criticism? Let me be a hypocrite and describe (criticize) the church that I currently attend. It was built in the late 1970’s, early 1980’s. Jesus is off to the side somewhere, and the priest sits where, traditionally, the tabernacle should be - front and center. The stained glass windows are lacking in any religious meaning. They inspire not thoughts of God, or angels or saints. but of nature. I believe they are supposed to be symbolic of the resurrection, but they fall short. Above the altar hangs a cross with a distorted version of the corpus. The Stations of the Cross, too, are distorted in a kind of “mushed-together” carving that is supposed to include all of the stations - good luck trying to figure which distortion represents which station. There are two statues in the church - only because the last priest believed that we should have several statues. Thank goodness, he also ordered the 70’s-style orange and yellow and copper “reredo” - shaped like flames - behind the priests chair painted white. Of course, the pews are arranged in a semi-circle so we can all “commune” with each other. The church sits high on a hill overlooking the town. They could have built a beautiful, traditional church. Instead, the facade of the church is a huge, blank, windowless concrete wall with a few bells near the top.

When I see the lovely church that Mother Angelica built - and the perfect, beautiful Sacrifice of the Mass that was said yesterday, I know that, in some places, Jesus is treated like the King that He is! He is front and center. All that surrounds Him says “This is our king!!” He deserves all the best and finest that we can give Him because He gave so much for us! If we believe that that is truly Jesus in the Tabernacle - Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity - then the gold and finery make sense.

Why is that so hard for some people to understand?

I’ve attended the Latin Mass in Pittsburgh. Believe me, if I didn’t live over an hour away, I’d join! It’s always as beautiful as the EWTN Traditional mass!

 

[Satriale]

…The tide has turned. Get with the program. Break the guitar, slap a mantilla on your wife’s (partner’s?) head and learn some Latin.

The last time I looked, playing the guitar during the Mass is not prohibited by the Church. I have heard a classical guitar played skillfully and reverently during the Mass in a manner that would bring tears of joy to Andres Segovia. Don’t try to equate that to some poor soul who thinks he’s the next Eddie Van Halen.

I will also note that a “mantilla” is neither required by the Church nor does it suggest that wearing one is in any way positive – or negative for that matter.

And while learning a new language is always advantageous, learning Latin to attend a Tridentine Mass is of little value if a person would much rather be attending the ordinary rite of the Latin Church.

 

[Dauphin]

The last time I looked, playing the guitar during the Mass is not prohibited by the Church. I have heard a classical guitar played skillfully and reverently during the Mass in a manner that would bring tears of joy to Andres Segovia. Don’t try to equate that to some poor soul who thinks he’s the next Eddie Van Halen.

I will also note that a “mantilla” is neither required by the Church nor does it suggest that wearing one is in any way positive – or negative for that matter.

And while learning a new language is always advantageous, learning Latin to attend a Tridentine Mass is of little value if a person would much rather be attending the ordinary rite of the Latin Church.

I think he was being pretty tongue-in-cheek.

 

[Satriale]

Why the venom on the part of some folks? The church (not “worship space” or “worship center”) in Hanceville is beautiful and the best that the religious community can give to God. Why would this bother some people to the point where they have nothing but criticism? Let me be a hypocrite and describe (criticize) the church that I currently attend. It was built in the late 1970’s, early 1980’s. Jesus is off to the side somewhere, and the priest sits where, traditionally, the tabernacle should be - front and center. The stained glass windows are lacking in any religious meaning. They inspire not thoughts of God, or angels or saints. but of nature. I believe they are supposed to be symbolic of the resurrection, but they fall short. Above the altar hangs a cross with a distorted version of the corpus. The Stations of the Cross, too, are distorted in a kind of “mushed-together” carving that is supposed to include all of the stations - good luck trying to figure which distortion represents which station. There are two statues in the church - only because the last priest believed that we should have several statues. Thank goodness, he also ordered the 70’s-style orange and yellow and copper “reredo” - shaped like flames - behind the priests chair painted white. Of course, the pews are arranged in a semi-circle so we can all “commune” with each other. The church sits high on a hill overlooking the town. They could have built a beautiful, traditional church. Instead, the facade of the church is a huge, blank, windowless concrete wall with a few bells near the top.

When I see the lovely church that Mother Angelica built - and the perfect, beautiful Sacrifice of the Mass that was said yesterday, I know that, in some places, Jesus is treated like the King that He is! He is front and center. All that surrounds Him says “This is our king!!” He deserves all the best and finest that we can give Him because He gave so much for us! If we believe that that is truly Jesus in the Tabernacle - Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity - then the gold and finery make sense.

Why is that so hard for some people to understand?

I’ve attended the Latin Mass in Pittsburgh. Believe me, if I didn’t live over an hour away, I’d join! It’s always as beautiful as the EWTN Traditional mass!

Based on your personal taste, you are comparing the shrine to what sounds like a truly lamentable worship space (your church) which was completed on a much lower budget. What does that prove? Nothing at all.

I’m not comparing the shrine to your local church. I’m comparing it to what I would have like to see given the budget of that place.

In reality the “bones” of the building look pretty good. It has nice lines and it looks pretty good from the outside. It’s the gauche interior and the catalog-architecture that I don’t care for.

 

[mao_now]

Based on your personal taste, you are comparing the shrine to what sounds like a truly lamentable worship space (your church) which was completed on a much lower budget. What does that prove? Nothing at all.

I’m not comparing the shrine to your local church. I’m comparing it to what I would have like to see given the budget of that place.

In reality the “bones” of the building look pretty good. It has nice lines and it looks pretty good from the outside. It’s the gauche interior and the catalog-architecture that I don’t care for.

But what about dem rocks???
Are they A problem, even if ya cant see em??

 

[Caesar]

Based on your personal taste, you are comparing the shrine to what sounds like a truly lamentable worship space (your church) which was completed on a much lower budget. What does that prove? Nothing at all.

I’m not comparing the shrine to your local church. I’m comparing it to what I would have like to see given the budget of that place.

In reality the “bones” of the building look pretty good. It has nice lines and it looks pretty good from the outside. It’s the gauche interior and the catalog-architecture that I don’t care for.

Ok, you spend a lot of time talking about how the architecture of the shrine is lacking. But what would you have liked to see?

 

[Brian_C]

Yeouch, this thread is a bit catty!

Personally, the EWTN mass was the exact type of worship experience I left the Baptist faith for. It was beautiful! It was certainly giving God the best! Oh how I wish a TLM was offered near me. Unfortunately, the most reverent priest I know has there are no plans for one yet.

I was raised in an austere Baptist church where stained glass windows were as flashy as it got. Sadly, the parish I attend was redesigned in 1976 at the height of V2 breathlessness. Praise God, though, that everyone has since come to their senses and a huge renovation is underway to “re-traditionalize” our building.

 

[dalesmom]

Satraile…

I know that you are new here, so maybe you don’t know how to be on this forum. Judge not, least ye be judged. Play nice or take your ball and go home. If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all…There is no excuse for being rude and judgemental.

 

[kleary]

I just finished watching the new mass on EWTN. I must say I found it very distracting and almost like they were putting on a show with all the fancy vestments, multi million dollar monastery etc. I always considered myself to be a traditional catholic, but now I’m not so sure. I guess I’ve gotten use to the guitars…

The reason why you feel in such a way is because you have become accustomed to the liturgical revolution.

In fact, the liturgy you saw is meant to show the Catholic Faith unambiguosly. It is also meant to fill all of your senses with the Catholic Faith- everything, the music for your ears, all the vestments and liturgical actions you see for your eyes, the sweet smell of incense for your nose, the sweetness of the taste of the Body of Christ on your tongue.

Every action, every sound in fact is meant to show the Catholic Faith. Even the Gregorian Chant has meanings in it’s tones I was told.

Ken

 

[DJgang]

But I will apologize for one thing. I judged the building and I have never stepped foot inside of it and that is wrong of me. It might look/feel a great deal different in person then it does over TV.

Yes it does…so can ya hush now?

 

[dalesmom]

You tell 'em Dana!

 

[retrovert]

I’ll say one thing for Satriale, he’s sure sparked things up around here. I like it…
By the way, I’ve been to Hanceville. It is beautiful and the sisters and priests are great, but that’s just it. What about the lay people? I got the feeling they were somehow second class citizens. Like glad to have you here. Enjoy yourself, visit the bookstore, have a great day…come back and see us again sometime. It was just so much up and above me, I did’nt feel comfortable. To me simple is much better, but then to each his own. Now I’ll shut up for awhile…

 

[retrovert]

Like I said, that’s the kind of thing that causes people to go elsewhere. Could be that is why so many have left the church

Are you Catholic? If you are, you must hold absolutely to the decrees of this council. This is a Canon we’re talking about. Please think about retracting your statement.

 

[retrovert]

Thanks kleary, sure was nice to get a response without the vitriol…

The reason why you feel in such a way is because you have become accustomed to the liturgical revolution.

In fact, the liturgy you saw is meant to show the Catholic Faith unambiguosly. It is also meant to fill all of your senses with the Catholic Faith- everything, the music for your ears, all the vestments and liturgical actions you see for your eyes, the sweet smell of incense for your nose, the sweetness of the taste of the Body of Christ on your tongue.

Every action, every sound in fact is meant to show the Catholic Faith. Even the Gregorian Chant has meanings in it’s tones I was told.

Ken

 

[Walking_Home]

Like I said, that’s the kind of thing that causes people to go elsewhere. Could be that is why so many have left the church

---

From what I have read here and there—the Church experience a great period of growth after the Council of Trent. People were coming in left and right. It seems we have actually lost people these last 40 or so yrs.