Ex-Catholic

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ex-catholic:
I think the Church only has the right to suggest what is or is not sinful with regards to morality. Not to flat out tell people what is or is not sinful. Given that everything in religion is open to interpretation, I do not see how the Church can take a hardline stance on so many issues and then, on top of that, TELL people what is a sin and what is not. I will admit that, given that I am less than happy with my church right now, I am biased but I feel justified in my bias. I have realized that the church has been controlling me and that I am the one in charge of my life and it is up to me to determine what I think is sinful and what is not. I have left the church because I do not like being dictated to based on a bunch of old guys views on the world and our places in it.
:tsktsk: Pardon me, but it seems you are just regurgitating a bunch of hooey you’ve heard out there in this secular world. If you truly felt that way, why would you be here asking these questions? The others here have responded to you with love and sound theology. If you could only change that sentence to say “God is the one in charge of my life and I want to determine His will for me” you might have a different perspective. I have been down the wrong path, and one thing I have discovered is that the longer you travel that road, the harder it is to find your way back. I was lucky enough to find a person who saw the potential in me and pluck me from my own self-destruction. Not all are so lucky. I know you feel justified in your anger because of your love for your friend. But, be careful not to let that lead you down a trail of tears. This culture is full of people out there who will be very eager to tell you exactly what you want to hear. When you tire of all their empty lessons, the Catholic Church will be here, ready and willing to welcome you back to the fullness of the Truth. Luckily, you have tied a rope around your waist before jumping in. Those of us here, will all be praying for you and will be here to pull you back in from the tide whenever you are ready. And we’re strong enough to pull in your friend, too. :love: God loves you, and so do we. Otherwise, we wouldn’t waste our time. :blessyou:
 
DominvsVobiscvm

i don’t think that there is anything that someone could do to show that the Church can and does speak authoritatively on such matters. I admit that right now I am very angry with the church and that, as Karl said, I am trying to justify leaving the church. It was not a decision that I made in a snap, I have been considering it for over a year now, long before this recent issure regarding sexuality and morals. Maybe I just need the time away for self reflection and to evaluate what is right for me in my life. I know I am being influenced by my parents, who both have different views on my decision. I have catholic friends who are trying to “help” me (they’ve gone so far as to have church officials vist my house). I also have friends who aren’t particualrily religious who are “helping” me. I admit that I am more inclined to listen to the less religious people (less religious not meaning non-religious). And then there is the whole reason I am on this message board, I am still conflicted with my decision and am still trying to determine what is best for me.
 
i don’t think that there is anything that someone could do to show that the Church can and does speak authoritatively on such matters.
I think this says it all. Its one thing to disagree with the Catholic Church on a particular issue; I’m not going to fault you for that.

You should at least be open-minded, though. Open to the possibility that you could be wrong.

Welcome to the boards. Please, pray for me. 🙂
 
That is an excellent point, DominvsVobiscvm . Thank you.

I can see from the responses that you are all good people and your commitment to your faith and the church is admirable.

Thank you for all of your help. I will take these postings under advisement.
 
Ex-Catholic:

As I retire for the night I will pray for you. Never stop pursuing the Truth!
 
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ex-catholic:
As my user name should suggest, I am an EX-catholic. 6 months ago I would not have imagined I would be saying this but, in the here and now, I am. I have lost faith in the catholic institution, not my faith in God. There are many reasons. The biggest reason, and one that has got me in to a lot of hot water, is that I am fully support my best friend who is gay. He told me about 6 months ago. We grew up together and he is like a brother. People from our church have been downright mean (putting it VERY mildly) with regards to his homosexuality. I believe him when he says he was born that way as he has no reason to lie to me. I see no reason for the chuch to take such a stern position and condone his sexuality. I do not believe it to be a sin. I think the fact that he had the courage to com out speaks to his strength of character and determination to make the most of his short time on this planet. Whether or not homosexuality is wrong is up to interpretation. In this day and age I do not think it is up to the church to dictate morals or the way a person is to live his or her life. In this day and age, I think the church should be here for moral guidance and to help in building a relationship with Our Lord. Most people that I know do NOT agree with my views. Although I think I know what kind of response I will get from this forum, I would still like to see how other people that I do not personally know, think of this.
You are leaving a god established church because some members of the church were being mean???

JOIN THE CLUB!!!

Do you think Our God was treated oh so royally by His chosen nation?

Do you think the saints were treated like CEO by the church?

Here’re some quiz:
  1. Which Saints got locked up in a prison by his own bishop?
  2. Which Saints was denied so may times upon entering a monestary and the sister even closed the door on her but she miraculously get inside and praying in the chapel? (hint: here feast is celebrated TODAY!)
  3. Which saints was beaten, interogated, threaten by her won parents, priests bishops and even Inquisitors (I think there’s at least one inquisitors involved) when she hadn’t even pass her drinking age?
You and your friend met some bad people who do not represent the church. MOVE ON!!

Being a homosexual is NOT a sin (If he was born homosexual). But the homosexual acts IS A SIN. That is the teaching since Ancient Church and you could get Early Church Father’s quote on that matter from this site.

Or perhaps you would like to find the church that suit YOUR believe instead of YOU conforming to GOD established CHURCH.
 
One thing to keep in mind is that we are only supposed to have one God. I am a protestant on my way home to the Church, and it was hard for me to make the decision to leave my prebyterian church but then I realized that it would be like I am trying to serve 2 Gods. I pray you don’t leave and just understand that the Church is doing what’s best for us to try and get us to Heaven. That is the job of a parent to get their children prepared to do God’s will and get ready for Heaveb. While we are here on earth for this short time as you put it, it is not to do whatever pleases us, its to do what God wants. If we don’t eternity is a long time to pay for not listening. I will pray for you and your friend. Oh and also what I found with protestantism is that as one denomination changes their views people tend to denomonation hop. I know I was one of them, and then I realized that I should be in the Church Christ started, whether I agreed with everything, rather than trying to find a denomonation that holds my beliefs. I was the one who need to change and mold to what Christ taught instead of disagreeing and expecting His teachings to change.

God Bless,
Shari
 
I have two big points here.

#1:
I am the one in charge of my life and it is up to me to determine what I think is sinful and what is not.
Maybe I just need the time away for self reflection and to evaluate what is right for me in my life.
(emphasis added)

Do you remember the Lord’s Prayer (ie: Our Father)? “…Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven…”

It’s not “Thy will be done, when I agree with your will and think it is best for my life.”

You are trying to be in control of your life. You shouldn’t be. God should be in control of your life. After all, God knows infinitely more about you and the universe than you do. He knows what is good for your life, not necessarily you. You should be searching for what God wants for your life, not what you want for your life.

#2: I’m only 18 years old, a freshman in college, but I have been struggling with homosexuality since I hit puberty. At one point, when I was entering the age of reason and exploring my faith, I realized what the Bible and the church said on such things. But my sexual feelings were so strong and I was so prideful (I was in it for what would satisfy me) that I didn’t want to be catholic anymore, or Christian, for that matter.

However, in time, with the help of my wonderful youth group and my friends, I started to believe again. Now my faith is extremely strong, and, thanks in part to Catholic Answers, I’m extremely knowledgeable about my faith. I’ve also committed to chastity. Someone earlier said that homosexuality really isn’t as bad as heterosexual chastity - it’s more severe in the simple fact that you are not allowed to have any romantic contact at all with those of the same sex, which would be innocent between members of the opposite sex. Anyhow, also, over the years, the homosexual attractions have lessened very much so.

The church’s teaching on homosexuality is not “impossible.” It’s very possible. I am no superhero. I’m your average American catholic teenage college kid who struggles with this, not unlike many other struggles that kids deal with.
 
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eaManwe:
#2: I’m only 18 years old, a freshman in college, but I have been struggling with homosexuality since I hit puberty. At one point, when I was entering the age of reason and exploring my faith, I realized what the Bible and the church said on such things. But my sexual feelings were so strong and I was so prideful (I was in it for what would satisfy me) that I didn’t want to be catholic anymore, or Christian, for that matter.

However, in time, with the help of my wonderful youth group and my friends, I started to believe again. Now my faith is extremely strong, and, thanks in part to Catholic Answers, I’m extremely knowledgeable about my faith. I’ve also committed to chastity. Someone earlier said that homosexuality really isn’t as bad as heterosexual chastity - it’s more severe in the simple fact that you are not allowed to have any romantic contact at all with those of the same sex, which would be innocent between members of the opposite sex. Anyhow, also, over the years, the homosexual attractions have lessened very much so.

The church’s teaching on homosexuality is not “impossible.” It’s very possible. I am no superhero. I’m your average American catholic teenage college kid who struggles with this, not unlike many other struggles that kids deal with.
HOOORAH FOR YOU!!

It’s hard to do what you did knowing how “in” homosexuality is nowadays.

HALLELUJAH BROTHER!
 
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eaManwe:
Someone earlier said that homosexuality really isn’t as bad as heterosexual chastity - it’s more severe in the simple fact that you are not allowed to have any romantic contact at all with those of the same sex, which would be innocent between members of the opposite sex.
Good point. I said it (well I said it was no worse), and I hadn’t considered that.
 
Thanks. 🙂

It’s not easy, you know. Society and the APA and culture at school is very pro-homosexuality and considers what I am doing “repressing” myself. It’s silly and stupid, and it makes life difficult.

I’m having great difficultly finding a psychologist that will help me with this in the Austin area and the Courage website is… extremely confusing for actually getting help. Any tips? (if I’m too off topic, just tell me, moderator, and I’ll make a new topic.
 
eaManwe,
You make me want to hug you. God bless you and bless you and bless you. Hang in there!! I’m so proud of you, and I don’t even know you. What a wonderful example you are to the world. !!!Embrace Your Cross and God Will Reward You In Heaven!!!
 
Truth is a commodity that is in short supply these days. Contrary to our popular culture, truth is not relative. Truth describes reality.

No amount of human effort will alter the truth. We can be deceived and believe that our feelings reflect the truth, but we can be completely wrong. There are objective moral truths. Unfortunately, the culture is overwhelming us with all kinds of misconceptions concerning what is right and wrong.

The church you disagree with is as scripture tells us, “the pillar and bulwark of the truth.” “Know the truth and the truth will set you free.” What should you believe? A culture that says its OK to kill a baby in the womb, and that homosexuality is good and describes it merely as another alternative life style? Or should you believe the church established by Jesus Christ himself? Moreover, Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would lead us unto all truth, and that He would be with us until the end of the age.

Get to really know and love the church. I finally understood what truth is when I lifted the white flag and surrendered myself to the teachings of the church. It was then that I knew that I no longer placed my own wants and intellect above the will of God.

Like many others participating in this forum, I will pray for you and your friend.
 
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eaManwe:
Thanks. 🙂

It’s not easy, you know. Society and the APA and culture at school is very pro-homosexuality and considers what I am doing “repressing” myself. It’s silly and stupid, and it makes life difficult.

I’m having great difficultly finding a psychologist that will help me with this in the Austin area and the Courage website is… extremely confusing for actually getting help. Any tips? (if I’m too off topic, just tell me, moderator, and I’ll make a new topic.
God bless you for your courage and strength!!! One thing I would suggest is finding out if you have a parish in your area and go and spend some regular time there with the Blessed Sacrament. You will receive some grace and that might help, not to mention just being there with Jesus. Also there was a web site, but the name escapes me, that lists Catholic psychologists. You might want to try there and if anyone knows what I am talking about could you respond with the webaddress?

Shari
 
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beng:
HOOORAH FOR YOU!!

It’s hard to do what you did knowing how “in” homosexuality is nowadays.

HALLELUJAH BROTHER!
I am with beng 110% on this one my wife and I will be praying for you and thanks for living by faith, through it you have strengthen mine.
 
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eaManwe:
Thanks. 🙂

It’s not easy, you know. Society and the APA and culture at school is very pro-homosexuality and considers what I am doing “repressing” myself. It’s silly and stupid, and it makes life difficult.

I’m having great difficultly finding a psychologist that will help me with this in the Austin area and the Courage website is… extremely confusing for actually getting help. Any tips? (if I’m too off topic, just tell me, moderator, and I’ll make a new topic.
Honestly I’m not really know much about it.

But do make a thread. it would get the proper attention (this is an “ex-Catholic” thread anyway) and I think some will have information for you.

And again… HIP HIP HOOOORAY!!!
 
Ex-Catholic:

Please get a copy of John Paul II’s encyclical " The Splendor of Truth". It’s about Truth, morality, natural law and the Church’s teaching of these subjects. It explains how “moral relativism” is the wrong way to go, and the Church’s objective teaching on matters of Faith and Morals, and Doctrine is the right way to go.

Think about it: mankind needs a moral compass given by God to us. That moral compass is the Catholic Church. There is no other… Otherwise, if everyone could interpret anything their own way, chaos would reign in this world.

I’m a chemical engineer. I read your public information, and saw you want to become one. Good luck with your studies!!! It’s certainly an exciting profession.

Please pray for me.

In Christ,

Jorge. 🙂
 
ExCatholic,

I have some books that I think will help you understand the Church’s teaching on sexuality.

Good News about sex and Marriage- Christopher West
Theology of the Body Explained- Christopher West
Theology of the Body- Pope John Paul II

I really think that these will help you and your friend find out about the Church’s teaching, and again it’s a little unfair to judge the whole Church on the actions of a few members.
 
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ex-catholic:
I believe him when he says he was born that way as he has no reason to lie to me.
With all due respect your friend has no way of knowing whether he was born gay. All he knows is that, around puberty, he began to feel same sex attractions. Now, it is imperative that he be dissuaded of this notion (that he was born gay) as soon as possible, for if he chooses to become a practising homosexual he will lose between 8 and 20 years on his life, miss out on the joys of raising a family, and drive a wedge between himself and his creator. In sum, he will lead a far less happy existence, in this life and in the next. He needs to seek help. To engage in a bit of self citation:

“The first question we must address is whether homosexuality is an inborn trait. If it were, the government would have little right to deny legal recognition to homosexual unions. However, it is my opinion that it is not, for the two most widely publicized studies which have purported to scientifically demonstrate that this is so, those of Drs. Hamer and LeVay, have yet to be replicated by other researchers [4], even though many have tried [5]. In their research paper “Human Sexual Orientation: The Biologic Theories Reappraisal,” which can be found in the Archives of General Psychiatry, Drs. Byne and Parsons state “Critical review shows the evidence favoring a biologic theory to be lacking. In an alternative model, temperamental and personality traits interact with familial and social milieu as the individual’s sexuality emerges [6].” Indeed, there is a great deal of evidence that homosexuality is not inborn. For example, there are several documented cases of genetically identical twins who have different sexual orientations as adults [7]. Also, individuals who grow up to be homosexuals often share similar childhood psychological histories, such as hostile or distant fathers, overprotective mothers, subjection to great amounts of teasing by their peers, parental loss through death or divorce, etc. [8]. Several studies have shown that adult homosexual attraction can grow out of childhood gender identity disorder[9], which the American Psychiatric Association has defined as strong, persistent cross gender identification, a discomfort with one’s own sex, and a preference for cross sex roles in play or in fantasies [10]. However, gender identity disorder can be cured if it is detected early and given proper professional treatment [11]. Similarly, among adults, treatment for unwanted same-sex attractions is about as successful as treatment for similar psychological problems: about 30% are completely cured and 30% experience improvement [12]. Dr. Lawrence Hatterer, who spent a great deal of his career treating same sex attractions, has stated” I have ‘cured’ many homosexuals… Any other researcher may examine my work because it is all documented on 10 years of tape recordings. Many of these ‘cured’ patients have married, had families and live happy lives. It is a destructive myth that 'once a homosexual, always a homosexual.” It has made and will make millions more committed homosexuals. What is more, not only have I but many other reputable psychiatrists have reported their successful treatments of [homosexuals] [13].” Sadly, the media has chosen to ignore much of this evidence; however it is there for anyone who is willing to search.

"The second question we must address is, so what if homosexuality is not an inborn trait, what interest does the government have in discouraging it? Well, for one thing it is in the interest of public health. Frankly, homosexual behavior is dangerous. Due to the high level of promiscuity and instability prevalent in homosexual relationships [14], and the inherent problems with having intercourse using body parts which were not designed for that purpose [15], homosexual persons are at a far greater risk for contracting sexually transmitted diseases than the general population. For example, male practitioners of anal-genital intercourse are at an alarmingly high risk for anal cancer, chlamydia trachomatis, cryptosporidium, giardia lamblia, herpes simplex virus, human immunodeficiency virus, human papilloma virus, isospora belli, microsporidia, gonorrhea, viral hepatitis types B & C, and syphilis, some of which are virtually unknown in the heterosexual population [16]. Homosexuals are also at high risks for serious psychiatric problems. According to recent study done in the Netherlands, a country where homophobia is virtually non-existent, males who engage in homosexual sex are far more likely than those who do not to experience depression, bipolar disorder, panic disorder, agoraphobia and obsessive compulsive disorder [17]. The health effects of homosexuality are truly devastating. In fact, an epidemiological study done in Vancouver, Canada found that practitioners of male homosexual sex lost between 8 and 20 years on their life expectancy [18].

(continued in post after next)
 
Hi Ex-Catholic:
If religion is open to interpretation, then what is the point of it? If there are no absolute truths, then there can be no right and wrong…and if there is no right and wrong, then God can not be good. And if God is not good, then Satan is not evil. If the individual (you or your friend) becomes your own standard of right and wrong…then right and wrong are simply meaningless terms to describe what you like and dislike; thus Osama bin Laden is a good person, because from his perspective he is doing the right thing. Who are we to say he is wrong? (Unless there are absolute morals based on God’s standards). Where do you draw the line if there are no absolute morals…if everything is open to interpretation? Why should a murderer not be given the right to decide his own version of ‘right and wrong’ if other people are? If he feels he was born to kill…then how can it be wrong for him to kill?

I hope I don’t offend you…my words may seem a little harsh, but I’m trying to make a point. Sorry in advance if necessary.

Love in Christ and Mary,
Tyler
 
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