Ex-defence minister Liam Fox: We must arm the Ukrainians as the credibility of the entire Nato alliance is at stake

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Taking a step back, the Celts themselves were fierce warriors who invaded and conquered land throughout ancient history.

Lastly, we should remember that all ancient peoples commonly interbred and that we ALL share many, many common ancestors, as well as cultural traditions. (including human sacrifice by the druids :)) Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on your viewpoint, there is no pure, innocent race of people anywhere.

sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/mlcr/mlcr01.htm
I doubt Irish can rightly claim to be any more “Celtic” than the Brits are, and certainly not more so than the Welsh and Scots. All kinds of people settled in Ireland. My Irish ancestors had a Scandinavian surname, as is true of many others. Some have French ancestry, some Anglo-Saxon, some Scandinavian and even some have some Spanish ancestery. Regardless of any of that, the people of Ireland were akin to Iberians before the Celts invaded, and probably most remained so.
 
I doubt Irish can rightly claim to be any more “Celtic” than the Brits are, and certainly not more so than the Welsh and Scots. All kinds of people settled in Ireland. My Irish ancestors had a Scandinavian surname, as is true of many others. Some have French ancestry, some Anglo-Saxon, some Scandinavian and even some have some Spanish ancestery. Regardless of any of that, the people of Ireland were akin to Iberians before the Celts invaded, and probably most remained so.
Agreed, we are all so mixed up it is a joke. I am just trying to point out how these ideas of nationality create such myths, the harmful effects of which are self-evident. Of course, Christianity properly understood and practiced does pull people out of this - but how often does that happen? :rolleyes:
 
As I have stated (correctly) many times before, you gotta believe in something, Holy Russia is just as good as anything else I guess. For every true believer, there are probably 50 opportunistic brutes, but there you go. Every cause is like that. Spot on. Something to help bide the time; make it mean something.
Yes. The real ideology of Russia is Chekism in which a KGB/FSB controlled state illegally expropriates the resources of the country under the de facto motto, "the state is everything, the people nothing":

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekism
According to former Russian Duma member Konstantin Borovoi, “Putin’s appointment is the culmination of the KGB’s crusade for power. This is its finale. Now the KGB runs the country.”.[9] Olga Kryshtanovskaya, director of the Moscow-based Center for the Study of Elites, has found that up to 78% of 1,016 leading political figures in Russia have served previously in organizations affiliated with KGB or FSB.[10] She said: “If in the Soviet period and the first post-Soviet period, the KGB and FSB people were mainly involved in security issues, now half are still involved in security but the other half are involved in business, political parties, NGOs, regional governments, even culture… They started to use all political institutions.”[10]…
Some observers note that the current Russian state security organization FSB is even more powerful than KGB was, because it does not operate under the control of the Communist Party as the KGB in the past.[10][15] Moreover, the FSB leadership and their partners own the most important economic assets in the country and control the Russian government and the State Duma. According to Ion Mihai Pacepa,
In the Soviet Union, the KGB was a state within a state. Now former KGB officers are running the state. They have custody of the country’s 6,000 nuclear weapons, entrusted to the KGB in the 1950s, and they now also manage the strategic oil industry renationalized by Putin. The KGB successor, rechristened FSB, still has the right to electronically monitor the population, control political groups, search homes and businesses, infiltrate the federal government, create its own front enterprises, investigate cases, and run its own prison system. The Soviet Union had one KGB officer for every 428 citizens. Putin’s Russia has one FSB-ist for every 297 citizens.[16]
This naturally isn’t very attractive, even if it is selfishly rational, so after the collapse of Communism the political elites and criminals had to find a new ideology to justify their destruction of the ‘nascent’ and unstable Yeltsin democracy of the 1990s. Apparently, they’ve found it in Eurasianism: an ideology combing traditional Orthodox Russian nationalism and imperialism with a pseudo-mystical geopolitical doctrine about defending traditional cultures and values from the false universalism of the West under the “Great Satan”, the American Empire:

arktos.com/alexander-dugin-eurasian-mission-softcover.html
According to Alexander Dugin, the twenty-first century will be defined by the conflict between Eurasianists and Atlanticists. The Eurasianists defend the need for every people and culture on Earth to be allowed to develop in its own way, free of interference, and in accordance with their own particular values. Eurasianists thus stand for tradition and for the blossoming variety of cultures, and a world in which no single power holds sway over all the others. Opposing them are the Atlanticists. They stand for ultra-liberalism in both economics and values, stopping at nothing to expand their influence to every corner of the globe, unleashing war, terror, and injustice on all who oppose them, both at home and abroad. This camp is represented by the United States and its allies around the world, who seek to maintain America’s unipolar hegemony over the Earth. The Eurasianists believe that only a strong Russia, working together with all those who oppose Atlanticism worldwide, can stop them and bring about the multipolar world they desire. This book introduces their basic ideas. Eurasianism is on the rise in Russia today, and the Kremlin’s geopolitical policies are largely based on its tenets, as has been acknowledged by Vladimir Putin himself. It is reshaping Russia’s geopolitics, and its influence is already changing the course of world history. …that last bit is just :rolleyes: :cool: …]
“Essentially, the unipolar world is simply a means of justifying dictatorship over people and countries. …] I think that we need a new version of interdependence. …] This is particularly relevant given the strengthening and growth of certain regions on the planet, which process objectively requires institutionalization of such new poles, creating powerful regional organizations and developing rules for their interaction. Cooperation between these centers would seriously add to the stability of global security, policy and economy.”
— Vladimir Putin, Valdai Club speech, October 24, 2014
 
Yes. The real ideology of Russia is Chekism in which a KGB/FSB controlled state illegally expropriates the resources of the country under the de facto motto, "the state is everything, the people nothing":

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekism

This naturally isn’t very attractive, even if it is selfishly rational, so after the collapse of Communism the political elites and criminals had to find a new ideology to justify their destruction of the ‘nascent’ and unstable Yeltsin democracy of the 1990s. Apparently, they’ve found it in Eurasianism: an ideology combing traditional Orthodox Russian nationalism and imperialism with a pseudo-mystical geopolitical doctrine about defending traditional cultures and values from the false universalism of the West under the “Great Satan”, the American Empire:

arktos.com/alexander-dugin-eurasian-mission-softcover.html
Ah, we are getting to the heart of the matter. Thanks for this. I will read it carefully.
 
Ah, we are getting to the heart of the matter. Thanks for this. I will read it carefully.
It also explains the alliance with Iran, which has a similar pseudo-religious ideology directed by militant Shi’ite apocalyptism in which the USA is again “the Great Satan” (or “Kingdom of the Antichrist” to quote Dugin) with its “Little Satans” being Britain and Israel, which has to be defeated so as to usher in the return of the prophesised Imam Mehdi (who according to Shia theology is presently in occultation).

Of course, again, this ideology is also concealing the fact that the mullahs and ayatollahs really don’t want to lose their theocratic power base.
 
Yes. The real ideology of Russia is Chekism in which a KGB/FSB controlled state illegally expropriates the resources of the country under the de facto motto, "the state is everything, the people nothing":

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekism

This naturally isn’t very attractive, even if it is selfishly rational, so after the collapse of Communism the political elites and criminals had to find a new ideology to justify their destruction of the ‘nascent’ and unstable Yeltsin democracy of the 1990s. Apparently, they’ve found it in Eurasianism: an ideology combing traditional Orthodox Russian nationalism and imperialism with a pseudo-mystical geopolitical doctrine about defending traditional cultures and values from the false universalism of the West under the “Great Satan”, the American Empire:

arktos.com/alexander-dugin-eurasian-mission-softcover.html
Allow me to respectfully dissent in part. As near as I can tell from studying history, the CHEKA, under all of its acronyms was always, fundamentally, a criminal organization, and was always the route to power in the Soviet state, with the possible and partial exceptions of the Lenin, Khruschev and Yeltsin years. The party certainly did not run the state while Stalin was in power. It was in Stalin’s pocket, and his use of the CHEKA under its various names, was the means by which he controlled it once he, himself had power. Party rule was a sham.

The “CHEKA” now runs Russia, but the pretense is somewhat different. The organization no longer claims to be the servant of the Communist Party. But it is no less criminal and no less dominating than it ever was. Presently, it appears, the “Eurasian” myth is the cover for its criminality, but it’s still a nation ruled by a criminal organization, and it can be expected to act like one in every important respect.

It appears Europe is beginning to awaken to that fact. Obama is reluctant to credit it, but has to deal with it even so, and with the people who are beginning to see the reality of what Putin’s rule really is.

One wonders what Russians really think of all that. Some undoubtedly are “true believers” in Putin/Dugin-ism. Probably many are not. But the latter will remain silent for the most part because real dissent can be very costly in a place like Russia today. It’s like Solzhenitsyn used to say of most people who were dissidents in their hearts; they “…gave the regime the finger with their hand in their pocket…”
 
Allow me to respectfully dissent in part. As near as I can tell from studying history, the CHEKA, under all of its acronyms was always, fundamentally, a criminal organization, and was always the route to power in the Soviet state…The party certainly did not run the state while Stalin was in power. It was in Stalin’s pocket, and his use of the CHEKA under its various names, was the means by which he controlled it once he, himself had power.** Party rule was a sham**.
Undoubtedly, party rule was a sham. I agree. Yet the ‘myth’ was there back in the Soviet days that the Politburo functioned as a unit and acted as a lever on other organs of the state, whether this actually occurred or not is beside the point. The ‘myth’ that a nation tells itself about itself is important, as every country is essentially founded on some kind of origin myth that symbolizes its values. The ‘myth’ in modern Russia is more akin to the Stalin and Breshnev eras of the charismatic strongman embodying the nation, yet with the KGB criminality culture now effectively the only stall in town. For me, that is truly disturbing and is potentially more dangerous than even the Cold War, where both sides at least had some measure of each others actions and how far not to go.

The basic crux of the analysts I referenced is that “Chekism” - which as you say is nothing else but organized, state-level criminality hiding behind security services - is today more powerful than likely at any time during the Soviet era. This might be a counter-cultural and disconcerting, even unbelievable, truism for our “post-Cold War” generation to take in but the facts speak for themselves.
The “CHEKA” now runs Russia, but the pretense is somewhat different. The organization no longer claims to be the servant of the Communist Party. But it is no less criminal and no less dominating than it ever was. Presently, it appears, the “Eurasian” myth is the cover for its criminality
Agreed 👍
It appears Europe is beginning to awaken to that fact. Obama is reluctant to credit it, but has to deal with it even so, and with the people who are beginning to see the reality of what Putin’s rule really is.
Yep.
One wonders what Russians really think of all that. Some undoubtedly are “true believers” in Putin/Dugin-ism. Probably many are not. But the latter will remain silent for the most part because real dissent can be very costly in a place like Russia today. It’s like Solzhenitsyn used to say of most people who were dissidents in their hearts
This I don’t know. Eurasianism is utterly ludicrous so I have a hard time believing that anyone could buy into it. Yet people in the know whom I’ve read and spoken to (at university) seem to think that, incredibly, the basic rudiments of Dugin’s theories are believed by more a few influential voices in Russia (ranging from army generals to the Orthodox hierarchy). It has its staunch, die-hard adherents and under Putin these people have been allowed to grow powerful.

I think its a case of “lies feeding on lies”. If you tell a lie for long enough and live in a world where the fabricated reality is continually put forth as fact, you might start to believe a little bit of it yourself.

As for the general public in Russia, I really don’t know. I think your basically right that the majority probably doesn’t believe in the finer points of this deranged worldview but submit out of fear. Naturally the effect which propaganda has upon people is a difficult question to answer for a variety of reasons, not least of which being that we cannot read minds and people might not necessarily being telling the truth.

I feel its important to point out something here, that the historian David Welch said with reference to Nazism:
“…As a general statement, it is fair to say that propaganda tended to be most effective when it was reinforcing existing values and prejudices, than when it was attempting to manufacture a new value system…”
***- David Welch, The Third Reich: Politics and Propaganda (2002 Edition) p51 ***
Welch argues that propaganda succeeded more effectively in reinforcing already-held attitudes within the Third Reich than in actively conditioning Germans to believe in the Nazi Weltanschauung (worldview), and he furthermore subdivides the effectiveness of propaganda into a number of different strands, for example stressing the void between overall support for the Hitler regime – which was significantly strengthened – and that of specific Nazi policies, which were not always given broader appeal through propaganda. Neil Gregor explained this further when he stated that, “dissent on single issues could exist alongside fundamental support for the regime as a whole”.

If you want my :twocents: this is what has happened in modern Russia vis-a-vis Putinism/Eurasianism.

Eurasianism reinforces many existing prejudices and latent beliefs that the Russian public seems to have concerning America, their declining “great power” status etc. and which state-controlled media continually reinforces. It plays on all the worst elements within traditional Russian nationalism, imperialism and chauvinism, ignoring the more ennobling parts. So while they may not believe all of Dugin’s mystical clap-trap (who could?!), this dissent on “single issues” doesn’t necessarily mean that they don’t buy into its basic tenets and support the Putin regime. The central, non-mystical ideas on American unipolarity, Russia’s righteous crusade on behalf of multipolarity, the revival of Russian Orthodoxy and so on, are probably latently held by a good number of people.

All I do know is that, whether we like it or not, the Kremlin’s current ideology in public (and I reiterate “in public”) is essentially the Eurasianism of Dugin.
 
Well, Eurasianism has not been on my radar as an official ideology but the gist of it I think I’ve been aware of as what Putin is basically doing. Here is another article for any of you out there who don’t know about it. I agree, it would be hard to know how many in Russia (or elsewhere) actually embrace this ideology on a serious level. But look at ISIS. People embrace that and it is even wilder. And, frankly, I do think Anti-American/West sentiment could carry this very, very far. I take it seriously.

nationalreview.com/article/372353/eurasianist-threat-robert-zubrin
 
I thought that Oliver Cromwell invaded Ireland in 1649 and after occupying the country passed a number of laws against Irish Catholics and confiscated large amounts of their land. As a result of Cromwell’s war against Ireland, 20000 civilians were killed. Although Ireland was granted indendence about 1921, nevertheless, Northern Ireland remains under British occupation.
so does scotland,independance for N I would errode the tories majority.these brits would be relieved to give up many things
 
No, Cromwell was an authoritarian dictator who saw himself as a Puritan Moses. But he lived in the 17th century so he is relevant…why? 🤷
ver relevant today, you know that dim model army that follow your boots when no on else will
 
As I’ve never heard of Dugin before, I googled a bit about him.

Needless to say, this is a fallacy to state or assume that Putin and the Kremlin are following his ideologies in the first place! I note Dugin was fired from Moscow State University last year, much to his ‘distress’.

Dugin, in his own words, does not view Putin as a ‘good’ student. :rolleyes: He made the following statements in relation to Putin over the past 6 years.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin

*In September 2008, after the Russian-Georgian war, he did not hide his anger to Putin, who “dared not drop the other shoe” and “restore the Empire.”[32]

Dugin has criticized Putin for the “loss” of Ukraine, and accused his Eurasianism of being “empty.”

Dugin stated he was disappointed in Russian President Vladimir Putin, saying that Putin did not aid the pro-Russian insurgents in Ukraine after the Ukrainian Army’s early July 2014 offensive.[34]

“Where is the place of Putin in the ideological scheme? He always preferred to be above the fray of liberals and conservatives, Atlanticists and Eurasianists, spies and patriots, making signals now to one, now to the other. But Putin himself does not disclose his ideology. He pronounces something evasive, which is immediately interpreted. *

A comment made in an interview with Yevgeny Primakov.

spiegel.de/politik/ausland/ukraine-konflikt-berlins-antwort-auf-putins-mythen-a-1019441.html

*How do you comment on, for example, attacks by Dugin, who has repeatedly spoken out strongly about Georgia?
  • We also have Zhirinovsky (laughs). The renegades and the half-mad are ignored, we do not listen to them. They are invited on the TV to revitalize shows, nothing more. Blame the journalists, your media colleagues that give them air.*
 
Foreign Affairs:
**
Putin’s Brain
Alexander Dugin and the Philosophy Behind Putin’s Invasion of Crimea**
Although Dugin has criticized Putin from time to time for his economic liberalism and cooperation with the West, he has generally been the president’s steadfast ally. In 2002, he created the Eurasia Party, which was welcomed by many in Putin’s administration. The Kremlin has long tolerated, and even encouraged, the creation of such smaller allied political parties, which give Russian voters the sense that they actually do live in a democracy. Dugin’s party, for example, provides an outlet for those with chauvinistic and nationalist leanings, even as the party remains controlled by the Kremlin. At the same time, Dugin built strong ties with Sergei Glazyev, who is a co-leader of the patriotic political bloc Rodina and currently Putin’s adviser on Eurasian integration. In 2003, Dugin tried to become a parliamentary deputy along with the Rodina bloc but failed.
foreignaffairs.com/articles/141080/anton-barbashin-and-hannah-thoburn/putins-brain
 
A comment made in an interview with Yevgeny Primakov.

spiegel.de/politik/ausland/ukraine-konflikt-berlins-antwort-auf-putins-mythen-a-1019441.html

*How do you comment on, for example, attacks by Dugin, who has repeatedly spoken out strongly about Georgia?
  • We also have Zhirinovsky (laughs). The renegades and the half-mad are ignored, we do not listen to them. They are invited on the TV to revitalize shows, nothing more. Blame the journalists, your media colleagues that give them air.*
Your link doesn’t seem to lead to the interview in question but to a German language article on a different matter 🤷
 
There is also a registered political UK party the Monster raving loony party, it would seem anyone can register one.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Monster_Raving_Loony_Party

Despite its satirical nature, some of the things that have featured in Loony manifestos have become law, such as being able to vote at 18, “passports for pets”, and all-day pub openings.
 
Thanks 🙂 Although this one is in Russian, so I’ll need to get google translate.

Edit: wait, its got English translation on it. I can’t seem to find it in English though. Sorry to be a pest but do you know where the English version is?
It doesn’t seem to operate translate, automatically. You will need to cut and paste the Russian text and place it into Google translate.
 
Dugin himself states Putin follows no ideology but his own,he has even said Putin was NOT euroasian.
While I regard this as essentially true (that Putin follows no ideology but himself ultimately), I think you are wholly underestimating the well-documented connections between the Kremlin and Dugin.

Despite being close to mentally insane, Dugin was able to earn two doctorates in Sociology and Philosophy, become a professor and head of Department at Moscow State University for six years and become deeply entwined with numerous Russian politicians, generals and even bishops under the Putin regime. This is incredible, since in any other country he’d likely be laughed at but under Putin he has become “mainstream” and a major player in Russian political decision-making due to his high profile contacts.

Putin founded the “Eurasion Economic Union” this year and is now littering his speeches with Dugin’s catchwords (such as “Novorossiya”, “American global dictatorship”, “multipolarity” etc.), so its kind of difficult to claim that he is not, in public at least, pursuing a Eurasianist vision in his foreign policy. When Putin addressed the Russian parliament in March following his annexation of Crimea he spoke of Greater Russia, Slavic destiny and even ethnic mysticism in an attempt justify his actions. This is all Dugin’s bile.

Anton Sheknovtov and Andreas Umland have both claimed that from a raving loony in the 1990s Dugin has become, “a notable and seemingly influential figure within Russia’s mainstream.” There are plenty of peer-reviewed journal articles on this:

sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1879366510000242
Aleksandr Dugin’s transformation from a lunatic fringe figure into a mainstream political publicist, 1980–1998: A case study in the rise of late and post-Soviet Russian fascism
**The paper was completed in 2008 and complements previous analyses of post-communist Russian right-wing extremism, in general, and studies of “neo-Eurasianism,” in particular, surveying some circumstances of the emergence of its major ideologist Aleksandr Dugin (b. 1962). **It introduces some teachers and collaborators of Dugin who influenced him before he became a known journalist, writer and commentator in the late 1990s. It also sketches some of Dugin’s initiatives and activities until he rose to the position of an official advisor to Gennady Seleznev, the Speaker of the State Duma, the lower house of the Russian parliament, in 1998. The footnotes provide a comprehensive bibliography on Western and Russian sources on the Russian “New Right.” It concludes with some suggestion where further research into the Dugin phenomenon could go.
You cannot accuse these of being mere media spin, surely?
 
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