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Ridgerunner
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In what ways was it more socially conservative?
Certainly not in abortions.
Certainly not in abortions.
Ex-defence minister Liam Fox: We must arm the Ukrainians as the credibility of the entire Nato alliance is at stake
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Tbrightson
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“elect a coup government”
How did I miss that gem!
How did I miss that gem!
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pepipop
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It depends on the synonym used for the word ‘elect’ and in this instance, I mean’t in relation to being ‘decided upon’ or ‘picked out’, which was fully evidenced in Nuland/Pyatt’s phone call.
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Path_Finder
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There was no coup, the President fled Ukraine, he could have stayed, he can still go back. There are serious charges he would have to face.
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Ridgerunner
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How in the world did Nuland get cookies to all of those Ukrainian voters? Now, that really is a marvelous accomplishment!
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Tbrightson
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Ukrainian Girls Scouts: a Trilateral/NWO/EU/Gay/Bilderberger/Zioist NGO, secretly replaced the thin mints with Nuland cookies.How in the world did Nuland get cookies to all of those Ukrainian voters? Now, that really is a marvelous accomplishment!
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FollowChrist34
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Ridgerunner
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To whomever does not have me on their “ignore list” (whatever that is) I wish to express that I do not have disdain for the Russian people or Russia. I have read a great number of books about Russia, and originating from Russia, including (best I know) everything Solzhenitsyn ever wrote except for the plays and “November 1916”. One could not come away from that without having a keen appreciation for that which is good in the Russian character and culture, as well as some understanding of that which is not.
I’ll admit, I have not known many Russians or Ukrainians, though i was introduced to one of each early in life, and at the same time. When I was a little kid, my dad used to take me to a barber shop in which there were two barbers; one Russian and one Ukrainian. (no kidding) Both had been born in their respective countries. I confess I liked the Ukrainian better; probably because his jokes were better. How the two got along, I’ll never know, but it was plain to me even then that while a Russian and a Ukrainian might get along personally, as peoples they did not. There were times when barbs went back and forth between the chairs; the Russian telling the Ukrainian that they were an insignificant people rightly belonging to Russia, the Ukrainian saying Russia was a monster that had no business in Ukraine. As near as I could tell, they both meant it.
So, that’s my soon-to-be-ignored anecdotal account of the day.
But anecdotes, literature, histories, whatever, aside, territorial aggression is territorial agression. Russia has annexed Crimea, and it has seized eastern Ukraine by force of arms.
And, Putin is encouraging what I can only think of as a toxic superchauvinism in at least part of Russian society. How many Russians actually believe it is hard to know.
I’ll admit, I have not known many Russians or Ukrainians, though i was introduced to one of each early in life, and at the same time. When I was a little kid, my dad used to take me to a barber shop in which there were two barbers; one Russian and one Ukrainian. (no kidding) Both had been born in their respective countries. I confess I liked the Ukrainian better; probably because his jokes were better. How the two got along, I’ll never know, but it was plain to me even then that while a Russian and a Ukrainian might get along personally, as peoples they did not. There were times when barbs went back and forth between the chairs; the Russian telling the Ukrainian that they were an insignificant people rightly belonging to Russia, the Ukrainian saying Russia was a monster that had no business in Ukraine. As near as I could tell, they both meant it.
So, that’s my soon-to-be-ignored anecdotal account of the day.
But anecdotes, literature, histories, whatever, aside, territorial aggression is territorial agression. Russia has annexed Crimea, and it has seized eastern Ukraine by force of arms.
And, Putin is encouraging what I can only think of as a toxic superchauvinism in at least part of Russian society. How many Russians actually believe it is hard to know.
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Son_of_Niall
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Path_Finder
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Some say the majority of ISIS fighters are from the former USSR; not sure about this but some battalions seem to be so.
We know what Litvenenko said about Putin; news.com.au/world/europe/former-russian-spy-accused-putin-of-being-kremlin-paedophile-before-his-death/story-fnh81p7g-1227205915682
Opposition leaders jailed in Putin’s Russia.
Hacker from there just gets a big monetary reward on him.
And the information that comes out of this place we are suppose to believe??? Really?
We know what Litvenenko said about Putin; news.com.au/world/europe/former-russian-spy-accused-putin-of-being-kremlin-paedophile-before-his-death/story-fnh81p7g-1227205915682
Opposition leaders jailed in Putin’s Russia.
Hacker from there just gets a big monetary reward on him.
And the information that comes out of this place we are suppose to believe??? Really?
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Path_Finder
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Son_of_Niall
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boar2roar
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If I said half the things you say about Russia at a country like the UK for example I would have been banned a long time ago.
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boar2roar
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Oh so Putler and his pedophile Nazis are in the Mid east too. He took all of Europe and now that weakling Obama won’t even defend the mid least that loves America.
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Ridgerunner
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I doubt you would have. But if you had been, the difference, of course, would be that saying similar things about the UK would not be true.
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KyivAndrew
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boar2roar
You really cast aspersions at other posters for some reason. I’ve been on CAF for five years, and Ridgerunner has been on here longer than I have and I take him to be a great poster and Catholic. You just joined recently (relatively speaking to ridgerunner and myself) but you have pretty early attacked others who don’t share your worldview, basically stating they should or could be banned on CAF which is against Forum Rules I believe, unless you know something about being banned that we don’t.
However, looking through all your posts about evil neo-cons and Zionists and using, it seems to me, some alternative press for information on Ukraine, are you one of those anti-neocon/Zionists, etc. who believes 9/11 was an inside job? Seriously, your posts raise this question in my mind and I’d like to know: do you hold the US responsible for 9/11 or who in your mind is responsible? It’s a fair question because I find many people who defend Putin to the hilt in the West are often mixed in with the truthers and far-left or far-right conspiracy sites and this question is at least germane to understanding where you are coming from and your conception of reality and contemporary politics since you pretty easy jump onto threads on international politics.
Are you a 9/11 conspiracy theorist boar2roar?
You really cast aspersions at other posters for some reason. I’ve been on CAF for five years, and Ridgerunner has been on here longer than I have and I take him to be a great poster and Catholic. You just joined recently (relatively speaking to ridgerunner and myself) but you have pretty early attacked others who don’t share your worldview, basically stating they should or could be banned on CAF which is against Forum Rules I believe, unless you know something about being banned that we don’t.
However, looking through all your posts about evil neo-cons and Zionists and using, it seems to me, some alternative press for information on Ukraine, are you one of those anti-neocon/Zionists, etc. who believes 9/11 was an inside job? Seriously, your posts raise this question in my mind and I’d like to know: do you hold the US responsible for 9/11 or who in your mind is responsible? It’s a fair question because I find many people who defend Putin to the hilt in the West are often mixed in with the truthers and far-left or far-right conspiracy sites and this question is at least germane to understanding where you are coming from and your conception of reality and contemporary politics since you pretty easy jump onto threads on international politics.
Are you a 9/11 conspiracy theorist boar2roar?
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Darryl1958
Guest
It is strange how the leftists have turned full circle against the principles that normally motivate them. It wasn’t all that long ago that it was Tibet that was being taken over by an imperialist China, and it was the left back then that led the charge against really what was the same kind of imperialism and ethnic cleansing that was taking place in Tibet as is now happening in the Ukraine…
That is more activism from the left than the right, and few if any people questioned the higher moral ground that the left was leading the activism from.
That is why it is so strange that it is the left, along with the far right too, that is standing behind Putin and the ethnic Russian supremacism that he is appealing to with his imperialist actions. This is not typically a leftist cause to back what is so obviously the aggressor in this battle, and support the larger nation taking over the territory of a smaller people.
It is a conspiracy theory to the extreme to think that America or the EU is somehow the aggressor here either, because everybody knows that in the best case scenario for the West, it will be the status quo where the Ukraine will remain the independent homeland of the Ukrainians. The more likely scenario at this point is that Russia will take over that country, in whole or in part, and, if in part, leaving what remains a dysfunctional shell of a country that will be too weak to thrive and prosper.
It is understandable enough that the far right religious zealots would support Putin, for he is really socks it to the gays and makes a big show out of his Orthodox faith. And if he has fascist, nationalist tendencies, that is really what the far right has always been about anyways.
It is the way that leftists here rally to that racist cause though that is a little perplexing. It seems as if the left has been supporting so many right quite evil causes across the globe for so long out of liberal white guilt or whatever, that a high degree of moral rot has set in, to where they no longer recognize that basic leftist principle of supporting the victim over the oppressor.
That is more activism from the left than the right, and few if any people questioned the higher moral ground that the left was leading the activism from.
That is why it is so strange that it is the left, along with the far right too, that is standing behind Putin and the ethnic Russian supremacism that he is appealing to with his imperialist actions. This is not typically a leftist cause to back what is so obviously the aggressor in this battle, and support the larger nation taking over the territory of a smaller people.
It is a conspiracy theory to the extreme to think that America or the EU is somehow the aggressor here either, because everybody knows that in the best case scenario for the West, it will be the status quo where the Ukraine will remain the independent homeland of the Ukrainians. The more likely scenario at this point is that Russia will take over that country, in whole or in part, and, if in part, leaving what remains a dysfunctional shell of a country that will be too weak to thrive and prosper.
It is understandable enough that the far right religious zealots would support Putin, for he is really socks it to the gays and makes a big show out of his Orthodox faith. And if he has fascist, nationalist tendencies, that is really what the far right has always been about anyways.
It is the way that leftists here rally to that racist cause though that is a little perplexing. It seems as if the left has been supporting so many right quite evil causes across the globe for so long out of liberal white guilt or whatever, that a high degree of moral rot has set in, to where they no longer recognize that basic leftist principle of supporting the victim over the oppressor.
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Darryl1958
Guest
I don’t think so, not from personal experience anyway. I was involved in a thread just this month where I did give a scathing criticism of a UK policy.
Likewise, many, many people here have given scathing attacks on both Britain and America in their role in the war against Iraq in recent years, which have been at least as venomous as criticisms of Russian imperialism in the latest news cycle.
Honest discussions of political issues does not seem to be the kinds of things that are disallowed in this forum, for these kinds of discussions are made regularly, with all sides being able to air their views.
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Tomdstone
Guest
How so? He has restricted the distribution of homosexual materials to children.
I believe that homosexuals have a lot more rights in Russia than they do in many countries which are strong allies of America, such as Saudi Arabia. One president has kissed and held hands with the prince of Saudi Arabia, while another has bowed to the prince. America’s ally, punishes homosexuals by capital punishment, whipping/flogging, and chemical castrations. America sells weapons to Saudi Arabia including 84 Boeing F-15 fighter jets and more than 100 attack helicopters. Actually, it will be a lot more as the US will sell $60bn worth of military aircraft to Saudi Arabia, in spite of the fact that homosexuals can be whipped or even executed in Saudi Arabia.
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JW55
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Unfortunately many people throughout the west and on this forum see the word “Russia” and it is automatically translates “bad”. If countries are in the sphere of influence of the “U.S.” or “U.K.”, they are translated as “good” Saudi Arabia is an extreme violator of many kinds of basic human rights but they are protected by the western governments for these reasons. There is economical profit from Saudi Arabia, so we turn a blind eye.
If information comes from a western media source it is “true” if it comes from a “Russian” source it is a " lie" or “falsified”. If photos come from the Ukraine it is “solid evidence”, if they come from Russia they have been “doctored” or “photo shopped”. What in the world would lead someone to believe photos or a story form Ukraine is automatically “true”? This isn’t the way the world works. There are bad people on both sides. Does Putin lie? Of course he does! Does Obama lie? You bet he does! Does Russian media falsify information? Yes. Does the media of the United States lie? Yes it does. Yet, so may people, hook, line and sinker buy in to whatever Fox News, NBC, whatever their news source as gospel. At least they do as far as anything relating to Ukraine or Russia. Protesters and those in the Ukraine who fire weapons or kill innocents are “freedom fighters” those in the east are “rebels”. Let’s at least try to see both sides and see we are probably getting false information from both, and some true from both. To do otherwise is just pure scary when people put their heads in the sand.
I consider myself a patriot and citizen and loyal to the United States but I am not buying everything that is said on their news as gospel. Nor will I believe there is not a propaganda machine in their media. The same goes for Ukraine or Russia. Falsehoods and truths come from all sources.
No one seems concerned about China or cultural cleansing of Tibet or the moving of Chinese settlers into Tibet, or other human rights violations. We trade with China, borrow money from them send our business to them at the expense of lost jobs in the west. China may prove to be a much bigger threat the well-being of the west than Russia. Everything east of the Urals will probably belong to the Chinese in time.
If information comes from a western media source it is “true” if it comes from a “Russian” source it is a " lie" or “falsified”. If photos come from the Ukraine it is “solid evidence”, if they come from Russia they have been “doctored” or “photo shopped”. What in the world would lead someone to believe photos or a story form Ukraine is automatically “true”? This isn’t the way the world works. There are bad people on both sides. Does Putin lie? Of course he does! Does Obama lie? You bet he does! Does Russian media falsify information? Yes. Does the media of the United States lie? Yes it does. Yet, so may people, hook, line and sinker buy in to whatever Fox News, NBC, whatever their news source as gospel. At least they do as far as anything relating to Ukraine or Russia. Protesters and those in the Ukraine who fire weapons or kill innocents are “freedom fighters” those in the east are “rebels”. Let’s at least try to see both sides and see we are probably getting false information from both, and some true from both. To do otherwise is just pure scary when people put their heads in the sand.
I consider myself a patriot and citizen and loyal to the United States but I am not buying everything that is said on their news as gospel. Nor will I believe there is not a propaganda machine in their media. The same goes for Ukraine or Russia. Falsehoods and truths come from all sources.
No one seems concerned about China or cultural cleansing of Tibet or the moving of Chinese settlers into Tibet, or other human rights violations. We trade with China, borrow money from them send our business to them at the expense of lost jobs in the west. China may prove to be a much bigger threat the well-being of the west than Russia. Everything east of the Urals will probably belong to the Chinese in time.
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