Ex-Gay Organizations or groups

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goofyjim:
My heart is continually torn following this thread. What difference does it all make? I have committed no actions to justify so I have something in common with one side of the argument. I have been plagued by temptations w/o giving in so I have something in common with the other. I do not call myself gay, while I may have mistakenly done so in the past. But I need not call myself ex-gay to satisfy anyone either. I am a sinner as we all are here. (At least, I assume there are no canonized saints posting to these forums.) Every sinner should be given the benefit of the doubt that he or she is striving for sainthood and the possibility exists. The only way the hope is gone is if hte unforgivable sin is committed. Everyone’s participation here is an indication that the Spirit is working through each of them which means noone here has done that. Let’s carry this discussion in this manner, please. That is my request. I will pray before the Blessed Sacrament tonight that his can either be done or the threads must cease. Yet I am not moderator of the forum so I am at someone else’s mercy. I do have the option to walk away from here but I have no need as that is not the best solution either.
Now, an honest person speaks. Many like you have struggled with this issue and not given in. The temptation is not a sin. Be as faithful as you can be in your faith and leave the rest up to God. “For we have all sinned…”

Bless you…
 
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goofyjim:
Just glancing through this thread and finding the same attacks from both sides refusing to love the other. I do not condone the lifestyle but if on has the temptation or thoughts it need not be classified as a mental disorder or illness. It does not decrease emotional stability or clarity of thought. In fact those who struggle and get criticized by both for not giving in in either direction, meaning non-active homosexually attracted people, have survived enough abuse from the whole world and should be highly praised for having made it. The same could be said for anyone who remains chaste or abstinent regardless of what temptations they may deal with. Let’s stop the hatred from both ends please. It will not bring about the kingdom.
Let’s stop calling charity and Church teaching “hatred”.

It’s not Christians that are attacking homosexuals. It is homosexuals that are attempting to change Christian teaching.
 
Not all homosexuals are seeking to change Church teaching. Surely these, such as Courage members, are not condemned. This is an assumption by many Christians. I have no desire to change Church teaching but to classify all homosexuals as subversive and irrational by their very nature is simply false and there is no data to prove it. One cannot find scientific data to determine the intentions of the heart.
 
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Tlaloc:
Alcoholism with a genetic root can’t be cured. It can be treated but the person will always have that predisposition toward it. Similarly Gays can indeed be “treated” and made to act hetero but they’ll still always have that predisposition. The difference is that alcoholism by definition is an addictive behavior and causes problems. Homosexuality is not a harmful behavior should society decide to grow up one day.
If someone is able to withstand alcohol for the remainder of their life, they are cured. If someone is able to not engage in homosexual acts for the remainder of their life, they are cured.

It has been shown in secular (homosexual journals, among others) and non-secular publications that homosexuals are up to 7 times more promiscuous than heterosexuals. The damage of this promiscuity is fairly obvious. The spread of AIDS and other STDs and shortened life span are one sufficient example.

You think STDs will stop if society grows up? I think people will stop acting solely on their feelings and use the brain God gave them when society grows up.
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Tlaloc:
Funny they give a totally different history about a panel of experts and data reviewed, but I’m sure you know their inner workings much better than they do.
Who are “they”? What I gave is historical fact. What you are referencing is heavily influenced by secular academia which has been shown it is willing to use pragmatism (i.e. create and teach your own worldview) as “truth”.
 
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Tlaloc:
.

Really?
Cause there was data going back to 1950 that said straight men and gay men were equally mentally healthy.
psychologymatters.org/hooker.html
  1. Greater suicide rate than average
  2. Greater promiscuity than average
  3. Greater depression than average
  4. Parades to promote and flaunt sexuality in public
This is normal and doesn’t require any help?
 
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Lisa4Catholics:
I went to a performing arts high school and the homosexuals out numbers the heterosexuals,the friends I had freinds that were homosexual all had something in common either lack of presence of the parents of the same sex or the parent of the same sex was abusive and or sexual abuse at a young age by either the same sex or opposite sex.Anybody have any stats on that?
This just further confirms the strong evidence that homosexuality is correlated to environment - typically an overbearing/absent father for boys and an abusive situation for girls. Dr Nicolosi has done extensive research on this.

Homosexual behavior is increasing now that it is taught that it is “normal” so teens use it as a type of drug to get high on the feeling.

Great work “educators” of America.
 
Ex-gay ministries are needed. but how would they exist if everyone has to be afraid to tell somone what they are experiencing. And once they do, the possibility is then always there that everyone will find out. Once again, why should there be fear. I have heard the comment that how can they allow ex-gay support groups. Wouldn’t that put them in the line of temptation. Yet AA and other groups have proven that the best one to help someone with a problem is someone who has a shared experience, not someone who hasn’t. Since not all Christians have experienced the loneliness associated with homosexaul temptations they are by nature not experts. They can endeavor to be compassionate but should not make general statements. Remember, my friend that I address my concerns to the gay community, also. My desire, as is yours, is to assist them to salvation. Can this be against Church teaching even if I am using a different method.
 
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lacoloratura:
Although I can’t quote them myself, I have HEARD many studies quoted in various media that indicate there is a pattern to the development of homosexual tendencies. A couple of factors I’ve heard mentioned regarding male homosexuality are domineering mothers and emotionally unavailable fathers, the combination of which leads the young man to seek love and acceptance from other men. But I’m not an expert. You might try looking for information on this topic by Fr. Benedict Groschel (sp?), who in addition to being a priest is also a psychologist.
A domineering mother is usually the result of an absentee father in one way or another.

If you extend out the absentee/overbearing father concept with males, it makes perfect sense.

Son does not bond with father. Son has a need to bond with father. Son spends time looking for bond. Son has trouble making friendships with other males due to lack of bond with father. Son does not feel like a male because of these lack of friendships with other males. Son tries to compensate for this lack of a necessary missing element by having intimate relationships with other males. Intimate relationships with other males neither create a bond with the father or a proper masculine friendship with another male. Cycle continues until intervention.
One way out (if a bond with father is not possible) is a bond with God, the heavenly father.

Of course, God is not allowed in schools - so we just teach homosexuality as normal because it is “easier”.

Teaching that God loves you and you were made in His image = too controversial and boring.

Putting condoms on cucumbers = less stress, and kinda fun
 
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lacoloratura:
Sadly, there is a problem with sexual repression among clergy - and it doesn’t have to be that way. Neither do we have to do away with priestly celibacy to alleviate it. The problem is that many, many otherwise good priests were never properly taught what celibacy really IS or is ABOUT. I have known many very holy priests who value their celibate lifestyle because they understand it. If such understanding was taught in more seminaries, I dare say that there would be far fewer problems. Just my perspective, but of course I have no first hand knowledge. 🙂
Understanding and proper teaching would solve the priest crisis, the vocation crisis, and the homosexual criisis.

Oh, but such hard work. Can’t we all just get along and be happy?

Sorry for the sarcasm but I’ve about had it with materialism, secularlism, and relativism.
 
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goofyjim:
Homosexuals are not subversive and irrational by nature. This is quite an irrational statement and proves my earlier point. They are sinners but will characterize all sinners as subversive and irrational. Some may be but there is no correlative proof. You are free to judge actions. Please refrain from judging the heart and I will make every effort to do the same. I will stay with the sacraments because the good Lord continues to invite me even though some do not. There is room for improvement on everyone’s part on this topic, including mine.
The good Lord’s Church teaches that homosexual acts are sinful and that marriage is between a man and a woman.

SOME homosexual activists are subversive in attempting to change these realities.
 
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goofyjim:
My heart is continually torn following this thread. What difference does it all make? I have committed no actions to justify so I have something in common with one side of the argument. I have been plagued by temptations w/o giving in so I have something in common with the other. I do not call myself gay, while I may have mistakenly done so in the past. But I need not call myself ex-gay to satisfy anyone either. I am a sinner as we all are here. (At least, I assume there are no canonized saints posting to these forums.) Every sinner should be given the benefit of the doubt that he or she is striving for sainthood and the possibility exists. The only way the hope is gone is if hte unforgivable sin is committed. Everyone’s participation here is an indication that the Spirit is working through each of them which means noone here has done that. Let’s carry this discussion in this manner, please. That is my request. I will pray before the Blessed Sacrament tonight that his can either be done or the threads must cease. Yet I am not moderator of the forum so I am at someone else’s mercy. I do have the option to walk away from here but I have no need as that is not the best solution either.
This is the point and why it matters:

Jesus teaches us to help one another.
  1. Homosexuals need help.
  2. Activists are attempting to re-define marriage and have the Church classify homosexual actions as not sinful
  3. Homosexuals have done great harm to the priesthood in America
 
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goofyjim:
Not all homosexuals are seeking to change Church teaching. Surely these, such as Courage members, are not condemned. This is an assumption by many Christians. I have no desire to change Church teaching but to classify all homosexuals as subversive and irrational by their very nature is simply false and there is no data to prove it. One cannot find scientific data to determine the intentions of the heart.
I have never classified ALL homosexuals as subersive and irrational. Why do you keep saying this?
 
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goofyjim:
Ex-gay ministries are needed. but how would they exist if everyone has to be afraid to tell somone what they are experiencing. And once they do, the possibility is then always there that everyone will find out. Once again, why should there be fear. I have heard the comment that how can they allow ex-gay support groups. Wouldn’t that put them in the line of temptation. Yet AA and other groups have proven that the best one to help someone with a problem is someone who has a shared experience, not someone who hasn’t. Since not all Christians have experienced the loneliness associated with homosexaul temptations they are by nature not experts. They can endeavor to be compassionate but should not make general statements. Remember, my friend that I address my concerns to the gay community, also. My desire, as is yours, is to assist them to salvation. Can this be against Church teaching even if I am using a different method.
You need to make a point rather than play the holly-roller game.

Do you agree with the following:
  1. Homosexual actions are sins
  2. Christians are to help other people both physically and spiritually
  3. Spiritual help includes helping your brother/sister to avoid sin
  4. Ministries to homosexuals accomplish #3
 
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Brad:
I have never classified ALL homosexuals as subersive and irrational. Why do you keep saying this?
Because Kevin Walker is quoted as saying it.
 
Kevin Walker:
Please correct me if I’ve read your post wrong, but celibacy does not cause homosexuality. Aspiring priests were homosexual way before they applied to a seminary, lied about their homosexuality to gain entrance to an all male institution which discourages homosexual recruits, and kept up the lie for many years, essentially living in sin as an ordained Catholic Priest.

No adult heterosexual is going to become a homosexual due to a long spell of celibancy. Military veterans could vouch for this.
No, I didn’t mean that celibacy causes homosexuality. I meant to refer to those who were not prepared for the reality of celibacy, and whose “repression” manifests itself in grossly improper ways, whether it’s with children, other men, or women. Although it’s not the same situation, you can compare it (loosely) to the homosexual activity that occurs in prisons. Please don’t think I’m comparing priests to criminals, though - I’m just saying that unless one is properly prepared for a celibate lifestyle (and you could say this about female religious, too, I suppose), one is susceptible to the…possible psychological consequences. Again, I’m not a psychologist or even a well informed amateur; I’m just extrapolating what seems logical from what I HAVE heard about such things.
 
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ahimsaman72:
Because Kevin Walker is quoted as saying it.
Then goofyjim should address the poster directly rather than combine a response to my post with this repeated assertion.
 
Brad,

I am not disagreeing with any of those four. And I understand that you are no the guilty party of my complaints in this thread. Read back over the postings and tell me if it is Christian or loving or helping either spiritually or physically to tell someone that they are subversive and irrational by nature. Remember I am not quoting you. This person is fully aware of his statement and I have not heard an apology.

If I were to tell you my history you might even be a little proud of the choices I have made. But I don’t seek that. I trust in the same God for bringing me to this day despite my mistakes. My choices therefore have been quite rational. I’ve come to a personal decision with the examination of all the viewpoints. What is irrational about that.
 
More Ex-gay Links:
  1. Parents and Friends of Gays and Ex-Gays
    PFOX www.pfox.org Look at their Help and Resources page for more programs.
    Code:
     On their Science and Medical page, Link to the article, "Famous gay gene scientist now finds religion gene."
    
     On the same page, link to the report, "History of the Removal of Homosexuality from the Psychiatric Manual."
  2. Ex-Gay Caucus of the National Education Association (NEA) -new this year! nea-exgay.org/
    Teachers in public schools will finally have the opportunity to read about and meet ex-gays, and talk about it with their students: the ex-gay caucus had a booth at the NEA annual teachers convention in August 2004 - for the first time.
  3. Exodus International has local chapters. exodusglobalalliance.org/
    Code:
     In Portland OR the chapter is called "Portland Fellowship."
  4. Inqueery - www.inqueery.com Awareness education for schools about ex-gay movement.
    Code:
     "At Inqueery, we believe students who approach a teacher or school counselor with questions about their sexuality should be given information from both sides of the debate regarding homosexual orientation and development."
  5. Warren Throckmorton, Ph.D. - Associate Professor of Psychology at Grove City College and Director of the College Counseling Service there. Focus of his research is sexual orientation. www.drthrockmorton.com
He has several projects involving ex-gays, sexual orientation:

For introducing high school students to the topic of homosexuallity, Dr. T has a program called, “The Truth Comes Out” www.truthcomesout.com
Truth Comes Out is a groundbreaking new faith-based resource combining original musical and spoken word tracks for high school students and young adults wrestling with homosexual issues, as well as their counselors. Approved by Focus on the Family.

A fascinating look at the lives of five former homosexuals available on DVD or video, “I Do Exist” drthrockmorton.com/idoexist.asp

Audio reports include topics such as “How the American Psychological Association Endorsed Same-Sex Marriage”

“Identity Radio” live365.com/stations/warrenthrockmorton
 
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goofyjim:
Brad,

I am not disagreeing with any of those four. And I understand that you are no the guilty party of my complaints in this thread. Read back over the postings and tell me if it is Christian or loving or helping either spiritually or physically to tell someone that they are subversive and irrational by nature. Remember I am not quoting you. This person is fully aware of his statement and I have not heard an apology.

If I were to tell you my history you might even be a little proud of the choices I have made. But I don’t seek that. I trust in the same God for bringing me to this day despite my mistakes. My choices therefore have been quite rational. I’ve come to a personal decision with the examination of all the viewpoints. What is irrational about that.
Understood. Thank you for clarifying. I wasn’t clear on what points you were tyring to make.

I don’t know what your choices are so I cannot even begin to guess whether they are irrational or not. If you are keeping yourself in a state of grace and away from sin, despite severe temptations, then I certainly do think you are doing better than most and that is very commendable.

Just as long as you understand that the conscience must be formed in accordance with truth in order to have the best opportuinity for maintaining union with God and away from sin and evil.

You are correct. God made all of us in His image. He loves each and every one of us. He doesn’t make any junk. We are all marvelous, unique masterpieces of God. He knows what is best for us. If we follow Him, no matter what our cross (and we ALL have one or more), then we will have the greatest of rewards.

I also think it is important to not allow our institutions (Churches, government etc.) not to be polluted by un-truths. Jesus came so that we many have life and to bear witness to the truth. These are interrelated (life and truth) and impossible to seperate. It is up to us as His disciples to continue to bear witness to Him so that His kingdom may continue to expand and more souls will be saved.
 
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Brad:
You need to make a point rather than play the holly-roller game.

Do you agree with the following:
  1. Homosexual actions are sins
  2. Christians are to help other people both physically and spiritually
  3. Spiritual help includes helping your brother/sister to avoid sin
  4. Ministries to homosexuals accomplish #3
I am in complete agreement with all the above; PLUS:
  1. Homosexuality is an inherent mental health disorder and homosexuals must not be allowed in positions requiring clarity of thought and emotional stability. Otherwise homosexuals are allowed anything else in society including participating in the religion of their choosing.
 
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