Ex-wife sleeps with 13 year old son in the same bed

[BlueEyedLady]

Yes, I understand that. But boys maturing into men need less mothering and more fathering. It is a time when fathers in intact homes frequently find themselves stepping into the lead role with the boys, who will challenge their mom and tax her in all sorts of ways, hungering for a strong father to guide them into becoming strong and effective men.

I married a man whose father was not present during most of his life. Trust me, it makes for a messed-up psychology.

There really isn’t an emoticon for the confused face that I’m making. But I’ve known enough wonderful men raised by single moms to know that the blanket “it makes for messed-up psychology” is not correct. And that statement is an insult to a lot of great men, including many here on CAF.

A child should not be placed with a parent based on gender. It should be based on who is better able to provide, who can spend the most time with the child, who will give the child a better upbringing, and to a lesser extent what the child wants. And in many states once a child is about 14 they get a lot of say in which parent they live with.

 

[thebookofesther]

'It is even less allowable for people of different sexes to sleep in the same bed, even if they are only young children, nor is it appropriate for people of the same sex to sleep together. This is what Saint Francis de Sales recommended to Madame de Chantal in regard to her children, when she still lived in the world, as something extremely important and as much a practice of decorum as one of Christian morality and piety." -St. Jean Baptiste de la Salle

 

[TheRealJuliane]

There really isn’t an emoticon for the confused face that I’m making. But I’ve known enough wonderful men raised by single moms to know that the blanket “it makes for messed-up psychology” is not correct. And that statement is an insult to a lot of great men, including many here on CAF.

A child should not be placed with a parent based on gender. It should be based on who is better able to provide, who can spend the most time with the child, who will give the child a better upbringing, and to a lesser extent what the child wants. And in many states once a child is about 14 they get a lot of say in which parent they live with.

I disagree wholeheartedly. Mothers and fathers are not interchangeable. I was brought up by a widowed father. He did not know how to mother my sister and me, obviously. He was as good a father as he could have been, considering, but a long way from optimal, and not a mother at all. You may know wonderful men who have been raised by single moms. This does not mean that they don’t have their challenges. It is IN SPITE OF their upbringing that they are relatively healthy, not because of it. And many more are damaged. Plus, you may not see all the struggles of these “wonderful” men.

 

[thewanderer]

I disagree wholeheartedly. Mothers and fathers are not interchangeable. I was brought up by a widowed father. He did not know how to mother my sister and me, obviously. He was as good a father as he could have been, considering, but a long way from optimal, and not a mother at all. You may know wonderful men who have been raised by single moms. This does not mean that they don’t have their challenges. It is IN SPITE OF their upbringing that they are relatively healthy, not because of it. And many more are damaged. Plus, you may not see all the struggles of these “wonderful” men.

Nobody is saying that mothers and fathers are interchangeable. What is being said is that the difference in gender should not be the only or even the main thing that you look at in determining who is best to take care of the children. Of course being raised without a mother is going to have a different set of challenges then being raised without a father, but that doesn’t mean that all mothers should get custody of their girls and all fathers custody of their boys or anything like that. There are far too many other factors to consider.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Nobody is saying that mothers and fathers are interchangeable. What is being said is that the difference in gender should not be the only or even the main thing that you look at in determining who is best to take care of the children. Of course being raised without a mother is going to have a different set of challenges then being raised without a father, but that doesn’t mean that all mothers should get custody of their girls and all fathers custody of their boys or anything like that. There are far too many other factors to consider.

Absolutely! If a father can provide a better and more stable and loving home than the mother he should get custody, regardless of gender, and vice versa. There is so much more to parenting and raising a family than gender.

Although ideally divorced parents should work together to make sure the child is close to both and feels like they have a home with both. When my fiance’s parents got divorced they made sure to put their kids first, even after his mom remarried. His dad came over for dinner and card games several times a week, took them many if not most weekends, and frequently came over with movies just to hang out. During the summer they just floated between homes. His mom encouraged this because she knew that despite her feelings her kids needed both parents. There was never a formal custody or visitation agreement because they both agreed that it would be better to work together to do what was best for their kids. Even now they will get together occasionally for their kids’ birthdays, graduations, etc. That’s what I call selfless parenting.

 

[gardenswithkids]

The only thing I’m accusing anyone of is that:

IT IS INAPPROPRIATE FOR MY EX WIFE TO ALLOW MY 13 YEAR OLD SON TO CO-SLEEP WITH HER.

Are you guys seriously suggesting that I HAVE A PROBLEM?

She is fine…not breaking any laws. I have a problem by even suggesting it is damaging him? ARE YOU SERIOUS??

I thouroughly agree that this is inappropriate, but I take the “innocent until proven guilty approach” towards your ex. The damage might be there already since your teenage son actually* wants* to sleep with his mother. To ask the proverbial question, “Which came first? Chicken or egg?”

I wonder if your 13 yo has some type of underlying sleep and/or other troubles causing him to treat his mom as some type of giant, living, teddy bear! You mentioned the kid has other problems–and blame your ex, but moms can get blamed for a lot of things that aren’t entirely our fault. Maybe your ex only puts up with this. From the perspective of a sleep-deprived mom who co-slept with much younger kids, sometimes moms put up with a lot, and that can include things like sleeping with their kids because it is the easiest way for mom to actually get some sleep!

It can’t be easy for your ex to be a single mom of two teenage boys–and if one of them has some other underlying issues that can make parenting even harder! You might try approaching this by seeking help for any underlying sleep issues. And if you haven’t already done so, consult a professional for an appropriate diagnosis of your son’s other issues, whatever they are.

At some point, you loved that woman enough to marry her and make two sons with her. I agree that what she’s doing is weird. But ex’s and fathers aren’t always the most objective people–and she might not be willing to share with you the full extent of the difficulties she’s having raising this boy. I suggest you consider the possibility that* your son may an underlying problem that’s causing this *and your ex-wife may need help in raising a troubled child.

 

[jazzy0710]

yes, i understand that. But boys maturing into men need less mothering and more fathering. It is a time when fathers in intact homes frequently find themselves stepping into the lead role with the boys, who will challenge their mom and tax her in all sorts of ways, hungering for a strong father to guide them into becoming strong and effective men.

I married a man whose father was not present during most of his life. Trust me, it makes for a messed-up psychology.

100% agreed

 

[hannajomar]

WHY IS IT SO WRONG?! I wish MY dad would have let me sleep with him once in a while! It’s emotional, it’s calming, it’s an innocent way to show affection! WHATS SO SICK AND WRONG WITH WANTING THAT?!

In American culture, this is considered an inappropriate boundary, one that must be enforced by adults. It is troubling that the mother does not see a problem with this.
I agree with you that as a child, it is comforting and loving. I used to get into bed with my own Dad when my mom would leave for work very early. When I was about 7 or 8 years old, he told me not to do that any more. This was well before puberty. He didn’t make a big deal about it, probably just told me that only Mommy sleeps in the bed with him. He was setting healthy boundaries. Abuse always happens when healthy boundaries are crossed. There is likely no abuse happening in the OP’s situation, but the fact that this boundary doesn’t seem to exist to the mother is troubling. If she doesn’t take this boundary seriously, what other boundaries does she not?

 

[Armor_of_Light]

Absolutely! If a father can provide a better and more stable and loving home than the mother he should get custody, regardless of gender, and vice versa. There is so much more to parenting and raising a family than gender. Although ideally divorced parents should work together to make sure the child is close to both and feels like they have a home with both. When my fiance’s parents got divorced they made sure to put their kids first, even after his mom remarried. His dad came over for dinner and card games several times a week, took them many if not most weekends, and frequently came over with movies just to hang out. During the summer they just floated between homes. His mom encouraged this because she knew that despite her feelings her kids needed both parents. There was never a formal custody or visitation agreement because they both agreed that it would be better to work together to do what was best for their kids. Even now they will get together occasionally for their kids’ birthdays, graduations, etc. That’s what I call selfless parenting.

Hello again Blue and Juliane and everyone else.

I am calmed down a bit today. Thanks for not abandoning the thread yesterday.

This situation you describe where the divorced people are still in close contact and are both mature enough to act in the childrens best interest…wow. That is great. I’m sure there even are residual effects from the divorce that manifest in ways today even though what you describe is the absolute best you can possibly hope for.

My situation is entirely different. Too much to get into here for this specific concern over the co-sleeping, but a few good points have been raised. It is accurate to say that this latest thing (the co-sleeping) is simply a symptom of deeper issues between my ex and my son. It is also accurate to say that I’m not suggesting that the co-sleeping is the thing that had done the most damage to my son. It is a symptom. I’m also sure there is nothing sexual going on. I am concerned that he is filling an emotional void that only could and should be filled by an adult. I’m not a psychiatrist so I used the ‘Helsinki syndrome’ analogy incorrectly. Co-dependent is the term for that disfunction.

I appreciate your recognition that fathers can be and often are great parents. We have a hard job in todays culture especially, and divorce only re-inforces the pervasive attitudes that marginalize us to the point of vilification. Of course we would not (as a gender) have had so hard a time of it if we embaced our crosses with more dignity in the past.

I get especially frustrated because of the non-existent communication between my ex and myself. We are divorced for a reason after all! I never did figure out a way to communicate with her without rousing her anger and being subject to her wrath. To attempt any sort of ‘co-parenting’ (especially on such an embarassing issue) would only make things worse and the kids would get the blunt end of that particular club so to speak. I personally can take it and have refused to allow that sort of controlling behavior to affect me, but I don’t have to live with her. Its extremely difficult for me to do it and I have had 25 years of practice! Those boys don’t have a choice. My hands are tied! Anything I do has negative consequences and if I do nothing I fail to stand up for them and myself. That is why I even allow myself to consider getting CPS involved. I know how serious that could be for all of us! I don’t take that lightly and believe me…It is not too far a stretch to say I’d fear for my life if I had them take away my sons and I got custody.

 

[Mommyof02green]

I’ve read over the replies, putting the co-sleeping a side for a moment: Why, if your ex-wife is really that bad, have you allowed your sons to be raised by her for the last 8 years? Why haven’t you fought for their custody?

 

[Armor_of_Light]

At some point, you loved that woman enough to marry her and make two sons with her. I agree that what she’s doing is weird. But ex’s and fathers aren’t always the most objective people–and she might not be willing to share with you the full extent of the difficulties she’s having raising this boy. I suggest you consider the possibility that* your son may an underlying problem that’s causing this *and your ex-wife may need help in raising a troubled child.

Hi Gardens…

I attempted to PM a reply to you…

The bolded–please don’t remind me. Ugh.

The rest of it…Yes you are correct. They (the boys) have been adhd diagnosed and medicated for years. Like I said…he has (and has had) PLENTY of othe issues over the years. More than enough to raise red flags and eyebrows regarding the parenting and environment that he has to live in most of the time.

The only way I could get more even custody of them is to fight in court. They both need 50 /50 parenting and it will never happen by me suggesting it, offering it, wanting it, trying to communicate, la-de-da, nicey nicey. Tried it for years. Tried it while married.

You’re 100% right. She needs help raising them, but I’m not going be allowed to do it without a nasty fight. Nobody wins that one. By the time everything calmed down after that, they would be 18 anyway.

 

[hurting]

The only thing I’m accusing anyone of is that:

IT IS INAPPROPRIATE FOR MY EX WIFE TO ALLOW MY 13 YEAR OLD SON TO CO-SLEEP WITH HER.

Are you guys seriously suggesting that I HAVE A PROBLEM?

She is fine…not breaking any laws. I have a problem by even suggesting it is damaging him? ARE YOU SERIOUS??

Armor - you are entirely in the right here in your position that it is patently, unequivocally wrong for your teenage son to be sleeping in the same bed with his mother. Period. Full stop.

That being said, please do not mistake the strategies offered here calling for a tactical approach. In a sane world, the family courts would see this abhorrent situation for what it is and immediately award you with custody. Sadly we don’t live in a sane world.

Oh yeah, and it very likely is the divorce that has caused the problem here. Not sorry for offending any of the divorce apologists here.

 

[hurting]

I’ve read over the replies, putting the co-sleeping a side for a moment: Why, if your ex-wife is really that bad, have you allowed your sons to be raised by her for the last 8 years? Why haven’t you fought for their custody?

How do you know that he didn’t? He likely did not ‘allow’ anything - the deck is stacked almost impossibly against fathers getting custody.

 

[Armor_of_Light]

I’ve read over the replies, putting the co-sleeping a side for a moment: Why, if your ex-wife is really that bad, have you allowed your sons to be raised by her for the last 8 years? Why haven’t you fought for their custody?

At first…to ‘keep the peace’. Plus in all honesty…I was afraid of her. I dealt with her **** for a long time and, well, you know. Kind of got sick and tired of it. Plus…My attorney (at the time) advised against it due to the fact that since she is not a crack addict or anything it would be futile.

But yes…now I probably could get more even custody due to all the issues that have built up over the years but who wins? Me? Yay!! But its still not a gurantee and she’d flip right the heck out. Maybe it is my own issue…I don’t know…but unless it is a guaranteed victory for my cause I don’t see any real winner at this point.

 

[Katarina90]

'It is even less allowable for people of different sexes to sleep in the same bed, even if they are only young children, nor is it appropriate for people of the same sex to sleep together. This is what Saint Francis de Sales recommended to Madame de Chantal in regard to her children, when she still lived in the world, as something extremely important and as much a practice of decorum as one of Christian morality and piety." -St. Jean Baptiste de la Salle

I sleep in the same bed with my best friends all the time, and we’re the same sex. Overzealous much?

 

[Katarina90]

Not at 13. Minds and bodies start to develop and there are natural boundaries that need to be put into place. Thankfully, most of the time this happens naturally, but sometimes, one or both parties don’t put the right boundaries in place and then you have these situations where things are looking a little sketchy.

…I fail to see why he’s “too old” to be loved.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

…I fail to see why he’s “too old” to be loved.

That is a ridiculous statement. There are many other ways to show love between a parent and a child, rather than sleeping with him at age 13!



I can tell you that no boy of 13 would be voluntarily sleeping with his mother unless there is an unhealthy dynamic going on. There is a very natural and normal pulling away from mommy that starts happening as early as 11, but by 13 all boys are starting to want to be men, and men don’t sleep with their moms.

 

[hannajomar]

I’m not a psychiatrist so I used the ‘Helsinki syndrome’ analogy incorrectly. Co-dependent is the term for that disfunction.

There’s another term for when the co-dependents are parent and child - emotional incest, or covert incest. It’s not sexual, but it can damage children just as much. I’ve seen several victims of this in my life, many of them who live with a single parent or when their married parents are emotionally distant from each other. It does damage people into adulthood. Of course I don’t know if this describes your children, but from what you write, there is danger of this.

 

[Armor_of_Light]

That is a ridiculous statement. There are many other ways to show love between a parent and a child, rather than sleeping with him at age 13! I can tell you that no boy of 13 would be voluntarily sleeping with his mother unless there is an unhealthy dynamic going on. There is a very natural and normal pulling away from mommy that starts happening as early as 11, but by 13 all boys are starting to want to be men, and men don’t sleep with their moms.

…unless they are Norman Bates!!

The ridiculousness of the ‘showing love’ argument is brought out by reversing the situation to be Dad / 13 year old daughter.

Love is shown by guiding children into the fullness of maturity and instilling in them (as best you can) the longing for Heaven and the preparedness to respond to Gods voice in their lives.

Look…he’s my son and I know he has always been the more sensitive type. He likes to have physical contact…sitting with me on the couch…hugs…that sort of thing. That is showing love in an appropriate way.

Someone else said it earlier…you don’t want anybodys awakening puberty next to you in a bed. He isn’t quite there yet and she of course has no frame of reference. He’d be scarred pretty deeply if he had his first nocturnal emission next to his mom. Ewwww…
Sorry to be so graphic but we’re all adults, and that is going to happen pretty soon.

I could literally copy and paste some of the better verbiage and advice you guys have given in an email attempt to address this with her. I’d love to do that and paste her response back on here so you’d see what I’m dealing with.

Of course I won’t actually do it!

You thought I would though…didn’t you?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Someone else said it earlier…you don’t want anybodys awakening puberty next to you in a bed. He isn’t quite there yet and she of course has no frame of reference. He’d be scarred pretty deeply if he had his first nocturnal emission next to his mom. Ewwww…
Sorry to be so graphic but we’re all adults, and that is going to happen pretty soon.

Oh. my. God.

:bigyikes::bigyikes::bigyikes:

Maybe someone really ought to do an intervention on your ex-wife. I mean, does she have ANY frame of reference for this sort of thing??? My younger son really flipped out when that started happening, we had to talk him down off the ledge so to speak. He thought he was going to hell because he couldn’t control himself! To have that happen as a boy was actually IN his mother’s bed???



I’m really thinking that someone needs to put an end to this before your son ends up needing some serious therapy (he already might).