Exclusive interview: Cardinal Burke says confusion spreading among Catholics ‘in an alarming way’

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on_the_hill said:
I’m merely agreeing with the EmporerNapoleon.

Aside from whatever Cardinal Burke has to say, I’d prefer the Church to move away from the more conservative elements among the hierarchy.
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So would 40,000 Protestant denominations and most of the non-Catholic world. Why exactly would you want the Church to move away from conservatism?
 
ThankUJP2 said:
So would 40,000 Protestant denominations and most of the non-Catholic world. Why exactly would you want the Church to move away from conservatism?
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It would go off topic.
Basically, I think we need to spend less time concerning ourselves with the process and more time concerning ourselves with the product.
 
on_the_hill said:
… I’d prefer the Church to move away from the more conservative elements among the hierarchy.
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And move into what? Seems like we’re already far removed from Trent.

And what about Vatican II? Seems like we’re still waiting until it gets implemented.
 
ThankUJP2 said:
So would 40,000 Protestant denominations and most of the non-Catholic world. Why exactly would you want the Church to move away from conservatism?
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If I assume that the conservatism being spoken of is not political, then it is inevitable that any move is away from conservatism, including any doctrinal development (like the Assumption of Mary). Every Ecumenical Council needed an element of movement. Conservative theology ( to conserve the status quo) limits the degree to which the Church can grow. This is a good thing when the growth is toward error. However, to much can leave the Church stagnant and ineffective.
 
EmperorNapoleon said:
It seems to me that if someone is going to constantly muddy the waters by publicly dissenting from the Pope and then talk about confusion spreading among the laity then one does not have to look too far for the cause. 🤷
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Pope Francis himself called for “candor and urged the bishops to speak openly and clearly, without fear of censure.” (That’s a quote, btw.) Cardinal Burke, as the embodiment of conservatism, has unwittingly caused ire and is now being** falsely **accused of dissenting by merely defending the unchangeable.

I am still trying to understand the fundamental cause for the elevated animosity directed toward all things orthodox and traditional. (I prefer the term orthodox instead of conservative.) Has this hostility toward church teaching always been bubbling under the surface? Apparently so, but I doubt many perceived the magnitude. Lucifer started the first rebellion - why should I be surprised? Especially in this immoral culture and corrupt age which hates truth and sees not the Goodness, but only restrictions.
 
Tigg said:
I am still trying to understand the fundamental cause for the elevated animosity directed toward all things orthodox and traditional.
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I do not see too many objecting against orthodoxy, especially among Catholics. I really think all the bishops are pretty much orthodox, even when the do not agree.
 
Seraphignatius said:
P.S. For a prominent example of a pope teaching error outside of Dogmatic proclamations we have Pope John XXII, who erroneously taught that the blessed did not see the beatific vision until the general judgement; he later recanted and taught that the opposite was true when his error was braught to his attention.
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Do you mean Pope John XXIII? Do you have a link for this 🙂
 
I don’t think the Catholic faithful can be blamed for becoming confused over certain events taking place in the Church. We’ve already heard very disturbing statements on the subject of homosexual relationships from the Bishops of Antwerp and Dresden.
 
pnewton said:
I do not see too many objecting against orthodoxy, especially among Catholics. I really think all the bishops are pretty much orthodox, even when the do not agree.
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Try the comments sections of the articles (hit pieces) at Crux, NCR, and America Mag. You will find all of the animosity towards Orthodoxy you would ever wish to see from “practicing” Catholics. Lets just be honest about this entire issue, there are progressive Catholics pinning their hopes on the Synod. There are Orthodox Catholics worried the progressives may be right. We have clergy giving opinions on both sides of the issue fanning the debate. This is not the 19th century where decisions from Rome take years to filter down to the pews. Our imstant access to information, acurate or not, keeps the pot stirred up. Many are leveraging the media to advance their own agenda, on both sides. This is a mess the Church did not need at this point in time. I am simply praying for God’s Will to prevail. And for the decernment to know the truth.

Have a blessed Holy Week.
 
Pulvis said:
Try the comments sections of the articles (hit pieces) at Crux, NCR, and America Mag. You will find all of the animosity towards Orthodoxy you would ever wish to see from “practicing” Catholics. Lets just be honest about this entire issue, there are progressive Catholics pinning their hopes on the Synod. There are Orthodox Catholics worried the progressives may be right. We have clergy giving opinions on both sides of the issue fanning the debate. This is not the 19th century where decisions from Rome take years to filter down to the pews. Our imstant access to information, acurate or not, keeps the pot stirred up. Many are leveraging the media to advance their own agenda, on both sides. This is a mess the Church did not need at this point in time. I am simply praying for God’s Will to prevail. And for the decernment to know the truth.

Have a blessed Holy Week.
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Progressive and orthodox are no more mutually exclusive than traditional and orthodox. Pope John Paul VI even named an encyclical for being progressive.

I see your second point, but this is not a new problem. Read these for a kick and a little insight.

quotegarden.com/media.html

If you don’t read the newspaper, you are uninformed. If you do read the newspaper, you are misinformed. ~Author unknown, commonly attributed to Mark Twain or Thomas Jefferson

The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers. ~Thomas Jefferson

We can’t quite decide if the world is growing worse, or if the reporters are just working harder. ~The Houghton Line, November 1965

Once a newspaper touches a story, the facts are lost forever, even to the protagonists. ~Norman Mailer
If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast. ~William Tecumseh Sherman
 
Pulvis said:
Try the comments sections of the articles (hit pieces) at Crux, NCR, and America Mag. You will find all of the animosity towards Orthodoxy you would ever wish to see from “practicing” Catholics. Lets just be honest about this entire issue, there are progressive Catholics pinning their hopes on the Synod. There are Orthodox Catholics worried the progressives may be right. We have clergy giving opinions on both sides of the issue fanning the debate. This is not the 19th century where decisions from Rome take years to filter down to the pews. Our imstant access to information, acurate or not, keeps the pot stirred up. Many are leveraging the media to advance their own agenda, on both sides. This is a mess the Church did not need at this point in time. I am simply praying for God’s Will to prevail. And for the decernment to know the truth.

Have a blessed Holy Week.
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I think that’s an accurate description of what’s been happening.
 
pnewton said:
I really think all the bishops are pretty much orthodox, even when the do not agree.
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This seems to diverge a great deal from the comments coming from participants at the synod. There seems to be a staggering degree of disagreement between the bishops on these topics and it hardly seems likely that bishops who have completely opposite positions on doctrinal issues can all be considered orthodox. What else would account for the confusion Burke alluded to?

Ender
 
Ender said:
This seems to diverge a great deal from the comments coming from participants at the synod. There seems to be a staggering degree of disagreement between the bishops on these topics and it hardly seems likely that bishops who have completely opposite positions on doctrinal issues can all be considered orthodox. What else would account for the confusion Burke alluded to?

Ender
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As long as the bishops agree on doctrine, I think they can all be considered orthodox. And as long as they are just brain storming, where all angles are considered, all the bishops should be considered orthodox (maybe some of the suggestions could be considered unorthodox… but that is kind of the definition of ‘thinking outside the box’ … right?)

I disagree with Cardinal Burke’s suggestion that some topics concerning family should be off the table. And I guess from what I have read, Pope Francis does as well.

So they discuss all types of ideas. Then at the end of this year they publish their recommendations; and the Holy Father takes them under consideration. Eventually he publishes his thoughts on the topic (or not.) Some items that can be changed without a new council may be changed or added. That’s the process.

I think we all need patience here as the bishops discuss this and talk to their congregations about it all. I think in the end we may wonder what all the fuss was about. 😉

PS: I doubt any infallible declarations will come out of this process.
 
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