Exclusive interview: Cardinal Burke says confusion spreading among Catholics ‘in an alarming way’

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Those who are scandalized. To worry only about one own culpability is doing a grave injustice to the children IMO. They are very much influenced by home life.

I believe the Pope made big-time mention of children this morning, not necessarily those who are scandalized.
Yes he did. I would ask, how would ending or destabilizing a second union that has produced children, not scandalize, and in fact traumatize, those children any less than seeing, in certain cases, their parents receive the Eucharist?

Again, these cases are not all black-and-white.
 
If you were the CEO of Microsoft and one of your many vice presidents was continually appearing in the press touting how much better the iPad is compared to the Surface 3, what would you do:
Except that in the case of the Church, prelates like Cardinal Burke have not been teaching anything other than what the Catholic Church ‘sells’

Everything +Burke has been saying is straight from the product lineup.

👍
 
Yes he did. I would ask, how would ending or destabilizing a second union that has produced children, not scandalize, and in fact traumatize, those children any less than seeing, in certain cases, their parents receive the Eucharist?

Again, these cases are not all black-and-white.
How is the rejection of sin ‘destabilizing’? Is the relationship based on sin? If so, how is that a healthy relationship?

Would not the best example parents can give to their children how obedient they themselves are to the Church, even at times when it involves personal sacrifice?
 
Except that in the case of the Church, prelates like Cardinal Burke have not been teaching anything other than what the Catholic Church ‘sells’

Everything +Burke has been saying is straight from the product lineup.

👍
That doesn’t prove much since those suffering legalism use this claim.
 
Yes he did. I would ask, how would ending or destabilizing a second union that has produced children, not scandalize, and in fact traumatize, those children any less than seeing, in certain cases, their parents receive the Eucharist?

Again, these cases are not all black-and-white.
It seems some people won’t take anything short of communion as an answer.

But, you’re right not all cases are black-and-white and ultimately God will judge us as to how much scandal we’ve caused. I specifically turned down a request to cohabit with kids around, noting the Church’s position on this. Yet I still felt some scandal was created and we both abstained from communion anyway. We did not feel it was right, and no matter what comes out of Rome, I will continue not feeling right about it. I don’t see that as disobedience.
 
Except that in the case of the Church, prelates like Cardinal Burke have not been teaching anything other than what the Catholic Church ‘sells’

Everything +Burke has been saying is straight from the product lineup.

👍
Except, throwing your boss under the bus is not a really workable manner in which to get your point across. Pope Francis seems to understand what the world needs right now - Hope and honest discussion about living in 2015.👍
 
How is the rejection of sin ‘destabilizing’? Is the relationship based on sin? If so, how is that a healthy relationship?

Would not the best example parents can give to their children how obedient they themselves are to the Church, even at times when it involves personal sacrifice?
Many people taught their children that babies that die without baptism go straight to heaven prior to the official change in Church teaching in 1992. Did that scandalise children?
 
Straw man. I see nobody in this discussion advocating these things.
 
Many people taught their children that babies that die without baptism go straight to heaven prior to the official change in Church teaching in 1992. Did that scandalise children?
Scandal is bad example. How is that kind of teaching setting a bad example? It’s just expressing a belief, which btw, seems to be ever changing. Is there an infallible statement on this?
 
Scandal is bad example. How is that kind of teaching setting a bad example? It’s just expressing a belief, which btw, seems to be ever changing. Is there an infallible statement on this?
The reason that the current traditionalists still demand that Limbo is essential teaching is to protect the doctrine of original sin and the need for baptism. They say it undermines the teaching on original sin. Scandalous.
 
Except, throwing your boss under the bus is not a really workable manner in which to get your point across. Pope Francis seems to understand what the world needs right now - Hope and honest discussion about living in 2015.👍
Where exactly has he thereon the pope under the bus? And how is his discussion in anyway not honest, which is exactly what the pipe has called for? The messages account adultery are from the Gospel itself, which is the SOURCE of Hope, and thus scale what the pope has called for 🙂
 
Except that in the case of the Church, prelates like Cardinal Burke have not been teaching anything other than what the Catholic Church ‘sells’

Everything +Burke has been saying is straight from the product lineup.

👍
👍
 
The reason that the current traditionalists still demand that Limbo is essential teaching is to protect the doctrine of original sin and the need for baptism. They say it undermines the teaching on original sin. Scandalous.
I don’t believe Limbo is a real place but is there an infallible statement that is being challenged to form a basis for scandal? But presuming it is scandalous, and I’m not saying it is, they shouldn’t be receiving communion either.
 
Is what I stated incorrect? If so, what exactly has Cardinal Burke taught that he has not supported with actual Church teaching?
Everything he says is supported by Church teaching, which is why the people that criticize him tend not to address the content of what he says; there isn’t really anything they can say.
 
Is what I stated incorrect? If so, what exactly has Cardinal Burke taught that he has not supported with actual Church teaching?
In Pauls teaching to the Corinthians 2Cor3:4-6 he explains…

Such confidence we have through Christ before God. Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

The spirit of the law is a living teacher. The letter binds and kills.
 
In Pauls teaching to the Corinthians 2Cor3:4-6 he explains…

Such confidence we have through Christ before God. Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

The spirit of the law is a living teacher. The letter binds and kills.
That same Paul also said not to approach the Eucharist unworthily…
 
I don’t believe Limbo is a real place but is there an infallible statement that is being challenged to form a basis for scandal? But presuming it is scandalous, and I’m not saying it is, they shouldn’t be receiving communion either.
Limbo was taught as an essential part of the doctrine of Original Sin and baptism. It was not presented as a mere hypothesis that the faithful could take or leave. It was thought to be an unchangable part of doctrine. These very strict present day Catholics such as the fatima.org and Catholic Essential crowd… I don’t think it is allowed to post links… claim statements like that of Pope Pius VI…

*The doctrine which rejects (explodit) as a Pelagian fable, that place of hell (locum illum inferorum) usually called by the faithful Childrens Limbo in which the soul of those dying with only original sin are punished by the pain of loss without any pain of fire; and this taken to mean that by denying the pain of fire one can thereby necessarily postulate a middle state or place involving neither guilt nor penalty between the Kingdom of God and eternal damnation, such as Pelagians have invented (fabulabantur): false, rash, slanderous to Catholic schools. Auctorem fidei, August 28, 1794, *

and then from Thomas Aquinas Summa Theologica…

“The limbo of the Fathers and the limbo of children, without any doubt, differ as to the quality of punishment or reward. For children have no hope of the blessed life, as the Fathers in limbo had, in whom, moreover, shone forth the light of faith and grace. But as regards their situation, there is reason to believe that the place of both is the same; except that the limbo of the Fathers is placed higher than the limbo of children, just as we have stated in reference to limbo and hell.” Summa Theologica, St. Thomas Aquinas, Whether the limbo of children is the same as the limbo of the Fathers?

and St Bellarmines statement on the fate of the unbaptised children in ‘The Sinful State’…

Our pity regarding their eternal state does nothing for them; but on the other hand, the strength of our determination to convert and baptize them profits them im-measurably. Moreover, we ourselves lose much if, because of a fruitless sentimentality towards either adults or children, we defend obstinately anything contrary to the Scriptures or the Church. In this matter [of Limbo and its inhabitants] we should not be carried away by any human consideration, by which so many are wont to be swayed; rather should we consult the teaching of the Church Councils, the Scriptures and the Fathers, and then follow it. The Sinful State, Chap. 2. Quoted from Christ and His Sacraments, p. 602.

Sometimes the Church looks like its just done a 360, when really what’s been enlightened is another implicit aspect of the doctrine that makes for a fuller living of doctrinal truth.
 
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