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Servant19
Guest
The point is dear friend, that if you love a murderer, then it is because of Christ that you love him/her. If Christ is seen in a murderer, then surely He exists in all things, albeit in varying degrees
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eddie_too
Guest
the tomb was empty. the physical body was gone. the apostles touched the Risen Lord’s physical body. the Lord’s physical body ate natural, physical food.
that is an essential element of the Gospel of Christ.
the Lord’s physical Body was glorified, but glorification requires a physical body to be glorified.
does the glorified body have different characteristics from the human bodies in this world generated by our sinful souls? yes. do these characteristics make the glorified body merely spiritual? no, they do not.
is heaven itself a glorified, physical existence? i am not sure the Church has addressed this question, but all of the evidence given us by Jesus indicates that heaven is a glorified, physical existence. after all, heaven is the home of the Lord’s Risen Body.
will the bahai jump on our words and turn them against us? that is the indication we receive from their posts on these threads.
the bahai repeatedly try to alter the Gospel of Jesus Christ and interpret in a private manner that changes it so that it no longer is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
until the bahai realize or understand that the only true and peaceful unity mankind can hope for is at the foot of the Lord’s Cross, they will remain opposed to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
the bahai seem to have an inkling of the significance of the Incarnation of the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. that is why they try so hard to convince us that their teachings are an organic continuation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
however, even as they mouth words of conciliation, they simultaneously reject the authority of the apostles and their successors. they reject the special authority of Peter and his successors.
the bahai might, and probably will, contest this last assertion. i merely point out that the bahai teach that all divine authority on earth resides in their leaders.
how might the bahai try to co-opt the authority of the apostles? most likely they will provide a doctrine that the apostles and their successors did have divine authority in this world but only until mohammed received his differing teachings from the spirit world messenger who mohammed said gave him his teachings. i say this because the bahai believe that mohammed also added information that was not revealed by Jesus Christ.
so, no, the bahai do not accept the authority given by Jesus Christ to His personally selected apostles and to their successors.
Roman Catholics place all of their faith in Jesus Christ, in His life and in His teachings, in His Resurrection and His Ascension. Roman Catholics do not need another intermediary between them and almighty God because there intermediary is God Himself, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. if almighty God wants to directly intervene in human history, as He intervened with Noah, Abraham, Moses, the jewish prophets, John the Baptist and finally and completely with His Only Son, He will do so through the auspices of the Roman Catholic magisterium.
that is an essential element of the Gospel of Christ.
the Lord’s physical Body was glorified, but glorification requires a physical body to be glorified.
does the glorified body have different characteristics from the human bodies in this world generated by our sinful souls? yes. do these characteristics make the glorified body merely spiritual? no, they do not.
is heaven itself a glorified, physical existence? i am not sure the Church has addressed this question, but all of the evidence given us by Jesus indicates that heaven is a glorified, physical existence. after all, heaven is the home of the Lord’s Risen Body.
will the bahai jump on our words and turn them against us? that is the indication we receive from their posts on these threads.
the bahai repeatedly try to alter the Gospel of Jesus Christ and interpret in a private manner that changes it so that it no longer is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
until the bahai realize or understand that the only true and peaceful unity mankind can hope for is at the foot of the Lord’s Cross, they will remain opposed to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
the bahai seem to have an inkling of the significance of the Incarnation of the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. that is why they try so hard to convince us that their teachings are an organic continuation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
however, even as they mouth words of conciliation, they simultaneously reject the authority of the apostles and their successors. they reject the special authority of Peter and his successors.
the bahai might, and probably will, contest this last assertion. i merely point out that the bahai teach that all divine authority on earth resides in their leaders.
how might the bahai try to co-opt the authority of the apostles? most likely they will provide a doctrine that the apostles and their successors did have divine authority in this world but only until mohammed received his differing teachings from the spirit world messenger who mohammed said gave him his teachings. i say this because the bahai believe that mohammed also added information that was not revealed by Jesus Christ.
so, no, the bahai do not accept the authority given by Jesus Christ to His personally selected apostles and to their successors.
Roman Catholics place all of their faith in Jesus Christ, in His life and in His teachings, in His Resurrection and His Ascension. Roman Catholics do not need another intermediary between them and almighty God because there intermediary is God Himself, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. if almighty God wants to directly intervene in human history, as He intervened with Noah, Abraham, Moses, the jewish prophets, John the Baptist and finally and completely with His Only Son, He will do so through the auspices of the Roman Catholic magisterium.
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eddie_too
Guest
it seems a bit disingenuous for the bahai to blame those who read their writings for having no idea what the writings of their teachers mean. the idea that the meanings of these teachings are self-evident or interpret themselves is a denial of reality.
for us Roman Catholics, we place our faith in Jesus who told us that unless we become like one of these little ones (meaning a child), we cannot receive eternal life.
that is the opposite of a teacher giving students thousands of pages of incomprehensible (incomprehensible to all but those who are specially instructed and capable). the Gospel of Jesus Christ is accessible to even those among us who are not sophisticated, educated, learned or successful in the ways of the world. the words of the Lord Jesus Christ are not confusing, unless misinterpreted or misunderstood through ignorance or from malevolence, or difficult to understand.
for us Roman Catholics, we place our faith in Jesus who told us that unless we become like one of these little ones (meaning a child), we cannot receive eternal life.
that is the opposite of a teacher giving students thousands of pages of incomprehensible (incomprehensible to all but those who are specially instructed and capable). the Gospel of Jesus Christ is accessible to even those among us who are not sophisticated, educated, learned or successful in the ways of the world. the words of the Lord Jesus Christ are not confusing, unless misinterpreted or misunderstood through ignorance or from malevolence, or difficult to understand.
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jeffrey_erwin
Guest
**I don’t agree that the Baha’i Faith has altered the Gospel. Their theology has an understanding of the Resurrection that is different from our own. The fundamental teachings about the Law appear to be not only accepted but also extrapolated in a way that applies to our present world.
As I’ve said before, if the Baha’i idea of a World Government were now in place, then the world would not be preparing to destroy itself though the unprecedented disaster of a global nuclear war.**
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eddie_too
Guest
Jesus created a magisterium and gave it His authority on earth until He returns. the authentic Gospel of Jesus Christ rests on that belief. the consequences of rejecting that belief is that a multitude of voices will be claiming, here He is, while others claim no that is not Him, here He is. this would go on and on and on, creating more division and more distrust and more malice among people who purportedly believe in Jesus. as a consequence, Jesus becomes unknowable.
do you think the bahai agree with that? i realize you also do not agree with it and that is a good reason why you think the bahai are preaching the same Gospel of Jesus Christ as that proclaimed by the magisterium established by Jesus Christ.
if they do agree with it, why are they not recognizing the authority of and following the teachings of the successors to the apostles?
and, why are they trying to convince people that it is their leaders who have received authority from God to interpret the authentic Gospel of Jesus Christ?
maybe the real question is, did Jesus intend for His Gospel to mean whatever anyone who claims they have placed their faith in Him want it to mean. if this is the case, there is no unity that comes from the Gospel, but only division. the faith is reduced to: everyone for themselves, all opinions are equal, facts and evidence are meaningless. maybe that is your faith. i received a completely different faith. my faith teaches me that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is something real and definitive, something that is not determined by the ignorance of every tom, dick and harry who encounter It.
do you think the bahai agree with that? i realize you also do not agree with it and that is a good reason why you think the bahai are preaching the same Gospel of Jesus Christ as that proclaimed by the magisterium established by Jesus Christ.
if they do agree with it, why are they not recognizing the authority of and following the teachings of the successors to the apostles?
and, why are they trying to convince people that it is their leaders who have received authority from God to interpret the authentic Gospel of Jesus Christ?
maybe the real question is, did Jesus intend for His Gospel to mean whatever anyone who claims they have placed their faith in Him want it to mean. if this is the case, there is no unity that comes from the Gospel, but only division. the faith is reduced to: everyone for themselves, all opinions are equal, facts and evidence are meaningless. maybe that is your faith. i received a completely different faith. my faith teaches me that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is something real and definitive, something that is not determined by the ignorance of every tom, dick and harry who encounter It.
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jeffrey_erwin
Guest
Our Lord’s teaching seems to leave the way open for new teachers to arise. He does caution us not to accept everyone of these.
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Beware of false prophets…You will able to tell them by their fruits. Can people pick grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles? …Any tree that does not produce good fruit is cut down and thrown on the fire.**
I find Baha’is to be fine people. They are not evil or wrong doers. Their idea for a World Government is a good and necessary plan fully in accordance with our Gospels.
It is not those who say to me “Lord, Lord,” who will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven.
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Beware of false prophets…You will able to tell them by their fruits. Can people pick grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles? …Any tree that does not produce good fruit is cut down and thrown on the fire.**
I find Baha’is to be fine people. They are not evil or wrong doers. Their idea for a World Government is a good and necessary plan fully in accordance with our Gospels.
It is not those who say to me “Lord, Lord,” who will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven.
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eddie_too
Guest
the bahai have a plan, a blueprint so to speak, for establishing a one world secular government?
where can i access this plan? please do not tell me it is somewhere in the tens of thousands of pages written by bahaullah. if possible, separate it out and organize it logically and succinctly.
you do not have to be a bahai to want a peaceful world without conflict. many, millions and millions of human beings have longed for and even now long for a world without conflict. that is most definitely not a vision unique to the bahai.
is it good that the bahai want a world without conflict? sure. is that a good thing? sure.
is it a new revelation from God? of course not, alexander the great had that vision. julius ceasar had that vision. ghenghis khan had that vision. and others of course have had that vision. most of them attempted to act on that vision through the use of force.
if the bahai have an actual plan for achieving that vision, lead us to it. on the other hand, merely proposing that vision is NOT A PLAN and beyond giving a starting point does nothing to accomplish it.
where can i access this plan? please do not tell me it is somewhere in the tens of thousands of pages written by bahaullah. if possible, separate it out and organize it logically and succinctly.
you do not have to be a bahai to want a peaceful world without conflict. many, millions and millions of human beings have longed for and even now long for a world without conflict. that is most definitely not a vision unique to the bahai.
is it good that the bahai want a world without conflict? sure. is that a good thing? sure.
is it a new revelation from God? of course not, alexander the great had that vision. julius ceasar had that vision. ghenghis khan had that vision. and others of course have had that vision. most of them attempted to act on that vision through the use of force.
if the bahai have an actual plan for achieving that vision, lead us to it. on the other hand, merely proposing that vision is NOT A PLAN and beyond giving a starting point does nothing to accomplish it.
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jeffrey_erwin
Guest
I am not a Baha’i and don’t know much about the details. The United Nations is a good start, but needs to go further. I do, however know of One who does have a plan to persuade humanity to finally accept a bona-fide World Government. That plan is not pretty, but it will succeed.
Those slaughtered by YHWH that day will be scattered across the world from end to end. No dirge will be raised for them; no one will gather them or bury them. They will stay lying on the surface like dung.
Those slaughtered by YHWH that day will be scattered across the world from end to end. No dirge will be raised for them; no one will gather them or bury them. They will stay lying on the surface like dung.
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TonyBS
Guest
Dear Eddie - The writings of Baha’u’llah set the Spiritual Framework of what is required in this age to achieve the Unity of mankind and eventually onto its Most Great Peace.
The Foundation of what is required is contained within the many writings and the call to The Most Great Peace was given to all the Rulers, Religious Leaders and Peoples of the World at the time of the Message. It was rejected. The boundaries were thus set for the Lesser Peace - This is one message aimed at a requirement for this lesser peace - reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/GWB/gwb-117.html
The Universal House of Justice in 1985 gave this message to the World, I was a Baha’i at this time and great effort was made to give it to all governments and peoples. reference.bahai.org/en/t/uhj/PWP/pwp-3.html
Again it sets the Spiritual Requirements with urgent Material changes/Goals to be achieved like;
Racism, one of the most baneful and persistent evils,…
The inordinate disparity between rich and poor, a source of acute suffering,…
Unbridled nationalism, as distinguished from a sane and legitimate patriotism, must give way to a wider loyalty…
Religious strife, throughout history, has been the cause of innumerable wars and conflicts, a major blight to progress…
The emancipation of women, the achievement of full equality between the sexes, is one of the most important, though less acknowledged prerequisites of peace…
The cause of universal education, which has already enlisted in its service an army of dedicated people from every faith and nation…
A fundamental lack of communication between peoples seriously undermines efforts towards world peace. Adopting an international auxiliary language…
It tells us that the path must be considered
Two points bear emphasizing in all these issues. One is that the abolition of war is not simply a matter of signing treaties and protocols; it is a complex task requiring a new level of commitment to resolving issues not customarily associated with the pursuit of peace. Based on political agreements alone, the idea of collective security is a chimera. The other point is that the primary challenge in dealing with issues of peace is to raise the context to the level of principle, as distinct from pure pragmatism. For, in essence, peace stems from an inner state supported by a spiritual or moral attitude, and it is chiefly in evoking this attitude that the possibility of enduring solutions can be found.
There are spiritual principles, or what some call human values, by which solutions can be found for every social problem. Any well-intentioned group can in a general sense devise practical solutions to its problems, but good intentions and practical knowledge are usually not enough. The essential merit of spiritual principle is that it not only presents a perspective which harmonizes with that which is immanent in human nature, it also induces an attitude, a dynamic, a will, an aspiration, which facilitate the discovery and implementation of practical measures. Leaders of governments and all in authority would be well served in their efforts to solve problems if they would first seek to identify the principles involved and then be guided by them.
This is a big document (15 pages) and it sets the required path.
It concludes in the last few paragraphs with
…We hold firmly the conviction that all human beings have been created “to carry forward an ever-advancing civilization”; that “to act like the beasts of the field is unworthy of man”; that the virtues that befit human dignity are trustworthiness, forbearance, mercy, compassion and loving-kindness towards all peoples. We reaffirm the belief that the “potentialities inherent in the station of man, the full measure of his destiny on earth, the innate excellence of his reality, must all be manifested in this promised Day of God.” These are the motivations for our unshakeable faith that unity and peace are the attainable goal towards which humanity is striving…In the earnestness of our desire to impart to you the fervour of our hope and the depth of our confidence, we cite the emphatic promise of Bahá’u’lláh: “These fruitless strifes, these ruinous wars shall pass away, and the ‘Most Great Peace’ shall come.” THE UNIVERSAL HOUSE OF JUSTICE
There is a lot more than but this one document, but this document was timely given in October 1985
Regards Tony
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Techno2000
Guest
Let’s talk about the… Tower Of Babel…
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TonyBS
Guest
It is discussed here - bahaiteachings.org/bahai-principles-a-universal-language
It also has applicable comments that follow.
Regards Tony
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Techno2000
Guest
I had to stop right here we don’t believe anything in the Bible is a mythical tale.
The legend of The Tower of Babel — one of the great mythical tales from sacred texts, epic poetry and the traditions of many different civilizations – describes a time when one human language became many.
bahaiteachings.org/bahai-principles-a-universal-language
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Techno2000
Guest
WOW… not only do you want a One World Government you also want a One World Language…
Baha’i : believe we can solve that problem by adopting an internationally-accepted auxiliary language:
In order to facilitate complete understanding between all people, a universal auxiliary language will be adopted and in the schools of the future two languages will be taught — the mother tongue and this international auxiliary tongue which will be either one of the existing languages or a new language made up of words from all the languages — the matter is to be determined by a confederation met for the purpose which shall represent all tribes and nations. This international tongue will be used in the work of the parliament of man — a supreme tribunal of the world which will be permanently established in order to arbitrate international questions. – Abdu’l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 84.
bahaiteachings.org/bahai-principles-a-universal-language
Baha’i : believe we can solve that problem by adopting an internationally-accepted auxiliary language:
In order to facilitate complete understanding between all people, a universal auxiliary language will be adopted and in the schools of the future two languages will be taught — the mother tongue and this international auxiliary tongue which will be either one of the existing languages or a new language made up of words from all the languages — the matter is to be determined by a confederation met for the purpose which shall represent all tribes and nations. This international tongue will be used in the work of the parliament of man — a supreme tribunal of the world which will be permanently established in order to arbitrate international questions. – Abdu’l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 84.
bahaiteachings.org/bahai-principles-a-universal-language
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Techno2000
Guest
The Tower Of Babel is about a bunch of people being unified around a stupid idea.
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Techno2000
Guest
OMG… a One World School too…
Baha’is cherish the ideal of universal education, with the goal of encouraging each child to contribute their talents to the peace, security and well-being of humanity.
Universal compulsory education for everyone — one of the essential Baha’i principles revealed by Baha’u’llah — calls on all societies and cultures to:
Address yourselves to the promotion of the well-being and tranquillity of the children of men. Bend your minds and wills to the education of the peoples and kindreds of the earth, that haply the dissensions that divide it may, through the power of the Most Great Name, be blotted out from its face, and all mankind become the upholders of one Order, and the inhabitants of one City. – Baha’u’llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 333-334.
bahaiteachings.org/bahai-principles-universal-education
Baha’is cherish the ideal of universal education, with the goal of encouraging each child to contribute their talents to the peace, security and well-being of humanity.
Universal compulsory education for everyone — one of the essential Baha’i principles revealed by Baha’u’llah — calls on all societies and cultures to:
Address yourselves to the promotion of the well-being and tranquillity of the children of men. Bend your minds and wills to the education of the peoples and kindreds of the earth, that haply the dissensions that divide it may, through the power of the Most Great Name, be blotted out from its face, and all mankind become the upholders of one Order, and the inhabitants of one City. – Baha’u’llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 333-334.
bahaiteachings.org/bahai-principles-universal-education
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Servant19
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Dear Techno and Eddie,
I think you will be surprised as to what the Catholic Church wants.
Have you not been reading the Unification of Mankind thread?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=997158
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Techno2000
Guest
Servant19 … In no way,shape or form… does the Catholic Church want a One World Government, Language or school.
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Techno2000
Guest
Preface
“The world situation requires the concerted effort of everyone, a thorough examination of every facet of the problem – social, economic, cultural and spiritual.** The Church, which has long experience in human affairs and has no desire to be involved in the political activities of any nation**, ‘seeks but one goal: to carry forward the work of Christ under the lead of the befriending Spirit. And Christ entered this world to give witness to the truth; to save, not to judge; to serve, not to be served’”
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/justpeace/documents/rc_pc_justpeace_doc_20111024_nota_en.html#4._Towards_Reforming_the_International_Financial_and_Monetary_Systems_in_a_way_that_Responds_to_the_Needs_of_all_Peoples
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Servant19
Guest
Because the church doesn’t want to be involved doesn’t mean it isn’t encouraging it to happen…
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